class 3/4 hitch

j2rossit wrote:

Oh,  and for drilling the holes in the frame.  Since I wouldn't be able to fit the car under a drill press   what is the best way of keeping the hole centered from where I start it.  Using a bunch of smaller bits slowly getting up to the 3/4 size,  or to just punch a dent at the center and start with the 3/4 bit and take your time?
Pretty much the extent of my automotive drilling experience has been limited to seized exhaust or engine bolts.

My plan is to mount the hitch with existing holes, and run 3/4 right through, the 1/4 inch steel of the hitch will act as a guide to keep the bit from wandering

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid damaging the beautiful (I can see it already in my head) powder coat. But If I'm touching up some holes on the frame, it's no big deal to be touching up the holes in the hitch at the same time.

j2rossit wrote:

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid damaging the beautiful (I can see it already in my head) powder coat. But If I'm touching up some holes on the frame, it's no big deal to be touching up the holes in the hitch at the same time.

Your washer and nut should cover any damage to powder coat that would happen, If you keep your wagon shinny side up I don't think anyone would ever see it

Either a 3/4" hole saw or drill a pilot hole large enough to accommodate the web of a 3/4" drill bit. Few people will have a 3/4" drill motor, so use a Silver & Deming bit (reduced shank size).

Self-priming "rust" paint should be good -- not much is going to get at the metal as it is sandwiched between the hitch and the washer anyway. A nice healthy coat of anti-seize is always a good idea on the bolts.

rabalc wrote:

j2rossit wrote:

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid damaging the beautiful (I can see it already in my head) powder coat. But If I'm touching up some holes on the frame, it's no big deal to be touching up the holes in the hitch at the same time.

Your washer and nut should cover any damage to powder coat that would happen, If you keep your wagon shinny side up I don't think anyone would ever see it

Lol,  I'll try and keep the shiny side up.   But it aint for appearances that I'm concerned. I just watched a Dodge Dakota literally dissolve in 4 years. I want to give the wagon all the chances it can get.
This is from last year before the rust was too bad  

j2rossit wrote:

rabalc wrote:

j2rossit wrote:

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid damaging the beautiful (I can see it already in my head) powder coat. But If I'm touching up some holes on the frame, it's no big deal to be touching up the holes in the hitch at the same time.

Your washer and nut should cover any damage to powder coat that would happen, If you keep your wagon shinny side up I don't think anyone would ever see it

Lol,  I'll try and keep the shiny side up.   But it aint for appearances that I'm concerned. I just watched a Dodge Dakota literally dissolve in 4 years. I want to give the wagon all the chances it can get.
This is from last year before the rust was too bad  

It doesn't look like any amount of touch up paint would of helped that  

Go buy a cheap spring loaded center punch. Also, i have used this stuff from loctite that is a rust convertor. It seals the surface pretty well

I wouldn't be too worried about rust, the frame is already bare steel......

I thought there was a coating on it....

Rabalc

Could not access sending a personal message so sent email to your gmail account
Thanks
Jade

yes, there is a nice coating of rust. Maybe some frame paint left from the factory. Not sure if the frames were painted like the trucks of the era.

Hello Rabalc, haven't seen any posts on here for quite a few days about the hitch fabrication. How's it going? All working out like you expected?

JUst to update every one...The hitches are at the powder coater, expect to see them by Thursday, will try to get them all shipped out on Friday, fedex seems to be the cheapest, sent one with out powder coat to California for 57.

will inform you via pm of estimated shipping, they measured as 47l x 24w x 5 tall, 45 lbs

Thanks for the update... Jeff

Hey Rabalc, I'm still planning on picking one up the Aug. 7th 8th or maybe on my way home on the 10th. Do you want a deposit? I'll try calling you this PM if that's OK.
Steve

A picture of a completed hitch would be worth a thousand words,..

Thanks rabalc, that's great news, can't wait to get it. I'm out of town right now, hitch should be waiting for me when I get back, and I'll be set for my towing trip. Like I said before, it's super nice of you to do all this and offer it up to others, thanks very much!

I don't have much experience with fasteners, can you or anyone else specify the correct names, grades etc.. and sizes of the bolts I should buy and anything else I need to install it, so I can visit a fastner shop and get the correct stuff first time. That would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Heliraf

That's great!

Hey guys, good news bad news... picked up hitches from powder coat, I am not very happy with the job they did. They were closed when I got there had them leave them out for me so there was nothing I could do.  I guess its up to you guys if you want them as is, or if you want me to send them back and wait longer. they did not coat the inside of the long tube, and a couple of them have some light spots. Its a 45 minute drive one way, and we are working 12 hr days right now so its really a pain for me to go down there. Please let me know and I am really sorry for their screw up




Reciever fits nicley  

That's awesome!
I don't need you to spend all that extra time (especially after seeing those kids seats!) I'm getting the car oil sprayed after I mount the hitch and I'll tell them to hit the inside of the tube with extra.
I'll pm you my address.

Depending on where I am on the list, I'll take one, already sent a deposit.

Every one that has made a deposit will be getting there hitch shipped out by Monday if you are ok with the powder coat as is, please let me know so I can get them wrapped up and to fedex.

Thanks Rich

I'm ok with the way they are (rust is not a big issue here) and I can coat the tube just let me know the balance to pay pal you. Thanks, Jeff P.S. I'm not in a big hurry so ship when you get time maybe they can go from your work.

Works for me to ship as is. They look awesome! I can dress up any spots during the mounting process. Send me the balance owed and I will get that to you. Thanks again. I will be needing another shortly; got my eye on a 96 Roadie Wagon one owner car I hope to pick up soon! When you do another run let me know. Thanks again!!!
Jade

Hey guys, for some reason my pms are not sending, I do have shipping figured out, trying to send them.... a couple went a couple didn't, they are just sitting in outbox.

I sent to four of you last night, I see 1 in my sent box, got a reply, two in outbox that wont send, and one gone MIA.

If you could send me a note on my gmail I could reply back that way and know you are getting it
Rabalcome@gmail.com

Thanks , Rich

I got your PM so I gather that I was that one reply?
payment sent yesterday.

j2rossit wrote:

I got your PM so I gather that I was that one reply?
payment sent yesterday.

Yes sir, you are all wrapped up ready to go, making trip to fedex Tues night. Thank you

no no no, Thank YOU!
I just picked up a second wagon last week, so I'll probably be back for another. But I'll go to the back of the line and let others have a chance first...

buickwagon wrote:

This doesn't affect you at your end, but if you tick "gift" and the declared value is under $200, then it is not dutiable and the recipient is not subjected to additional brokerage fees on receipt, otherwise the recipient pays any applicable taxes and/or duty  on receipt.

That is incorrect.  The value is $60 (sixty) for a gift.  Also, the person shipping it has to send it to you personally and include a card or other notice indicating that it is a gift.  The checkbox is not sufficient notice.

Also, thanks for getting those hitches made. Very cool.

Son of a pup -- you are right. When did the rules change? It used to be up to $200 was OK, but if it was anything over that (eg: $201) then you paid on the entire value. But looking at the CBSA website, now it's $60, and you pay only on the amount that exceeds the $60.

My hitch arrived today THANK YOU VERY MUCH.....

Mine is coming tomorrow can't wait.

Got home from work to find this.

Got mine the other day as well.

glad to see you are getting your hitches, hope you all enjoy... sorry for the packaging, hopefully it does not take to long to remove the miles of shrink wrap

Rich,

Not sure if you discussed the hardware required do you have the hardware noted from your install? Jeff

Jeff, I have not yet had time to install mine yet, I would think 3/4 x 1-1/4 grade 8 bolts would be long enough

I saw the one Malibusswagon ordered. Very well made! Will you be making a 2nd run of these? I'm thinking I might swap out my class II

Maybe early winter time, just too busy to do any now.  Will not offer powder coat, too much time and hassle, didn't turn out as nice as I would have liked. also to ship no need to package or worry about getting damaged.  Will post if and when I will do more. I am also waiting for feedback on install, I have access to heavy duty drills, impacts, tools so I don't think it will be an issue for me, but others may not have that available making it a little more difficult

rabalc wrote:

Maybe early winter time, just too busy to do any now.  Will not offer powder coat, too much time and hassle, didn't turn out as nice as I would have liked. also to ship no need to package or worry about getting damaged.  Will post if and when I will do more

Thats fine, thats when I'll be working full time again anyways.

bamalongroof wrote:

Not sure if you discussed the hardware required do you have the hardware noted from your install?

As noted above, the design is for 3/4" grade 8 bolts and nuts for strength. 1-1/2" or 2" would be sufficient in length. To position and retain the nuts inside the frame while tightening, I tacked the washer to the nut and tacked a long (12 or 14") piece of metal (eg: coat hanger) to the washer and ground a flat on one side of each washer. The rod is used to insert the nut through another opening in the frame and position it, while the ground flat edge on the washer jams against the inside wall of the frame to hold the nut while tightening the bolt.

Here is the original sketch:

I bought a Class 4 Putnam hitch off a '92 RMW from a junk yard between Traverse City and Petosky MI in May for $50. Had it shipped to one of my brothers in Pinckney MI for $45. Picked it up in early July. Dissasebled it and removed heavy rust with wire brush, sandpaper and sand blasting. Had a friend from church who owns a steel fabricating shop punch a 5/8" hole in the side pieces so that it could be attached to the frame in two places on each side instead of one. He also cut two 1-1/2" x 2-1/2" 1/4" angles for two side pieces for strength. Another frield welded them to the side pieces. I ground the bottom welds smooth. After sand blasting, painted with three coats of Chassis Saver Paint. Bolted to vehicle with 4-2" 1/2" grade 5 black phophate carriage bolts and 4-10mm x 1.0 8.8 hard bolts to the bumper shocks. The side pieces were bolted to the lateral piece with 4 each side 1-3/4" 7/16 fine thread grade 5 bolts. total cost ~$175. If I can figure out how I will post pics. Now to wire up the 7 round trailer wire harness to haul boat or 27' Travel Trailer.

27' trailer and grade 5 bolts? You brave, brave person.

Grade 8 bolts aren't very expensive, in some cases they aren't necessary; however when hauling a trailer you don't want to leave anything to chance.

you guys make me laugh,..

1/2" bolts are pretty big,.

fine thread grade 5 bolts,. you really think they will shear off?

too funny,...

Nick, Why take the chance when it's only a few dollars more.

MalibuSSwagon wrote:

Nick, Why take the chance when it's only a few dollars more.

oh please,. don't be so silly,..

Some of you guys think everything needs to be held together with grade 8 bolts,.including exhaust manifolds,.

It's not taking a chance,. as i mentioned 1/2" bolts are pretty big for the job,.

your inexperience in fabricating stuff is obvious,. by your need to over engineer,.

if you read what he built the extra 1/4" angle iron is a pretty damn good bracket,.

It's a common thing in the internet world, if its not over engineered, powdercoated and made to last 40 yrs its no good,.

yet uhaul and other places have been bolting hitches on for years,. and they are just painted mild steel stuff, held on with 3/8ths and 5/8ths bolts,. and they last 10-15 yrs,

Do you think the vehicle can generate enough draw bar pull to shear off the bolts?
don't forget what your pulling may weigh 5-600lbs,. but its on wheels that roll,.


i,m pretty sure if we anchored the front of the car to a solid object, then hooked a D8 to the hitch,.it'd tear the frame before it sheared the 1/2" grade 5 bolts,.

check out the hardware of most tongues on trailer,. no where near as strong as the hitches on the vehicle,.


but you do what you want with your hitch,. and i'll use my 3/4 ton truck to tow anything i need to,..

and i'll go back to the real world and you guys can keep playing in the virtual world,.

and we'll both be happy,.

There is a huge increase in strength (about 60% higher proof load) comparing a true grade 8 bolt (not 8.2) to a grade 5 bolt. This not only applies to the bulk of the bolt, but also the comparatively shallow threads that the tongue weight of your trailer will be hanging on.

When I did the original design, I calculated shear forces due to shock loads, given a 7,000lb trailer. I don't have the calculations at hand, but I designed for grade 8 hardware, and came up with 3/4". Yes, 1/2" grade 2 will hold the hitch on the car with a light utility trailer and no unforeseen shock loading. But I was designing a hitch to match the capabilities of the car.

Your choice. I used grade 8 on my hitch.

shock load for 7000lbs,. interesting,.

shallow threads,. tongue weight,. all interesting points,. doubt you will ever have a 7000lb tongue weight ,. or even be able to generate 7000lbs of draw bar pull as i said,.

but of course if its designed for grade 8 bolts then grade 8 bolts must be used right?
I,m sure your design is a strong design,.

as i mentioned but it keeps getting glossed over,.
perhaps i'll try to explain my point in a different way?

if you bolt a 1/4" piece to another 1/4" piece,.with a 1/2" grade 5 bolt,.
i.m not able to come up with the force necessary to shear the bolt off,. but i,m pretty certain its beyond the limits of a station wagon,.and i think the 1/4" mild steel material will bend/distort

unless of course we are now going to build the hitch out of T1,. which of course would be what i would do, and use huck bolts etc,.

but to be safe,. lets all use grade 8 bolts right? then we can all have bragging rights that the equipment we are operating is so well made and so strong and safe that it bears no merit to argue anything,.over engineered or not,.

We all know i,m not an engineer,.and i,m sure that some egg head will come along with a whole long diatribe on bolt strengths and shear values,.stretch factors,. yada yada,.

but i,m pretty sure the afore mentioned hitch won't come off,.and his bolts are more than adequate for holding it on,.

it is like arguing against a fully auto 10 ga, of course it'll get the bird everytime,. but it it necessary?



carry on,.

phantom 309 wrote:

it is like arguing against a fully auto 10 ga, of course it'll get the bird everytime,.  but it it necessary?



carry on,.

Well it'd certainly save a lot of time chopping it up for soups and salads!