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 synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?

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bcb577

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PostSubject: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:31 am

i was just curious,the previous owner of my 96 rmw used full synthetic oil.i just recently purchased the car and its in need of an oil change but not sure if i can afford full synthetic oil.i was thinking about using the valvaline max life synthetic blend and was wondering if this is a good idea or if i should somehow continue with the full synthetic?
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buickwagon

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:20 am

Oh God, the oil debate has reared it's head!

Ok, once upon a time, there were 4 types of oil:

Group 1 - Conventional - Mineral oil derived from crude oil
Group 2 - Hydroprocessed - Highly refined mineral oil
Group 3 – Severe hydroprocessed - Ultra refined mineral oil
Group 4 – Full synthetics (chemically derived) - Chemically built Polyalphaolefins (PAO)
Group 5 – Full synthetics (chemically derived), NOS - eg: Esters (PAO),  polyalkylene glycols (PAG).


20 years ago, the big names in synthetics were Mobil1 (PAO), Amsoil (Ester), Penzoil (Ester) and Redline (Ester). They all offered a lower-cost "semi-synthetic" line by blending Gr. 4 base stocks with one of the lower groups. Pretty much everybody else supplied mineral oil based products.

Then certain companies like Valvoline started marketing their Group 3 products as "Synthetic". Mobil1 sued and lost as the court bought the argument that Gr. 3 products were so highly refined and reblended as to be a new synthetically produced product. (some countries still require that Gr. 3 base stocks cannot be marketed as "Synthetic" -- I think Germany is one, Japan another.)

As a result, Mobil1 and Amsoil started playing games and getting cagy about what exactly is inside the can, citing "proprietary formula" secrecy. It is known that Amsoil switched to mostly PAO base stock and both Amsoil and Mobil1 are blending in Gr. 3 base stocks into their products (Mobil1 admitted as much here.).

The secrecy surrounding proprietary formulas means that we are left to choose based on claimed performance standards. If the manufacturer's claims can be believed. Here's an example, where Valvoline accuses Mobil1 of lying about meeting performance standards.

So, it appears that virtually all "Synthetic" motor oils available today are actually "Semi-synthetic" compared to the standards and terminology that were in effect at the time our B-bodies were built. Unless you have a specific need (eg: racing, motorcycle or extreme cold-weather starting), my advice is to buy a good quality name-brand oil that meets SAE grade SL.

If you have certain specific needs, research what you are buying. www.bobistheoilguy.com is probably the single best independent and unbiased resource on the web for such information.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:42 pm

Some people say that once you have used synthetic, you can't go back to semi or non-synthetic. That's completely false.

As long as you change the oil on a regular basis, you can use a high-quality non-synthetic (dino) in your LT1. I'd spend an extra buck or two on a good filter.

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Bobloblaw

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:59 pm

I have almost always used the VALVOLINE HIGH MILEAGE SYNTHETIC BLEND oil in all of my vehicles.
I also use FRAM SEVERE DUTY filters in all of my cars.

I have read and discussed so many things about oil, and oil additives......and it all boils down to this: change your oil every 3k miles.

I use Valvoline because I like the stuff. No real reason why. I just do. It has not done my wrong yet.
I use FRAM.......well, becuase, its usually right next to the valvoline.

So, stick to what you like and change it every 3k and you will be just fine.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:59 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
I have read and discussed so many things about oil, and oil additives......and it all boils down to this: change your oil every 3k miles.

a 3000 mile oil change interval is overkill.
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sj95rmw



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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:12 am

"So, it appears that virtually all "Synthetic" motor oils available today are actually "Semi-synthetic""

This makes no sense to me. Why wouldn't Mobil just introduce different grades of synthetic ?
Cheaper mixed synthetic & the super premium real full synthetic ?

There's plenty of Porsche, BMW people who would pay anything for the high end. The most expensive Mobil, Pennzoil, Castor, Valvoline synthetic oils are all about $25-$28 for 5 quarts at Walmart. They could introduce a $35 oil & I'd pay.

I change oil once a year.
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buickwagon

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:28 am

sj95rmw wrote:
This makes no sense to me. Why wouldn't Mobil just introduce different grades of synthetic ?
Cheaper mixed synthetic & the super premium real full synthetic ?

They  do.

Go to their website and find their widget to "Choose the right oil for my car".
At a quick count, they offer at least 14 different labels, most in several different viscosities:

Mobil 1 Extended Performance
Mobil 1 High Mileage
Mobil 1
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy
Mobil Super High Mileage
Mobil Super Synthetic
Mobil Super Conventional
Mobil 1 Racing
Mobil 1 Racing 4T
Mobil 1 V-Twin
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck
Mobil 1 ESP Formula
Mobil 1 ESP Formula M
Mobil 1 ESP X1

Amsoil is similar:
Signature Series 100% Synthetic
XL Extended Life Synthetic
OE Synthetic
ZROD Synthetic
Dominator Racing Oil
European Car Formula
Synthetic Stationary NG Engine
Synthetic Vehicular NG Engine
Synthetic Premium Protection
Break-in Oil for high performance and racing engines
Synthetic Motorcycle
Advanced Synthetic Motorcycle
Synthetic Diesel
Premium Synthetic Diesel
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frederickflintstone

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:00 pm

FWIW the consensus on BTOG webpage is that a FRAM filter is crap. about everything else is up for debate.

FWIW I now use walmart full synthetic oil and a WIX/NAPA gold filter. I go 5K between changes. been doing that the last 20 years.
in almost 40 years of flogging the living crap out of EVERYTHING I have owned, I have never had a catastrophic engine failure.

JMO YMMV personal preference.
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sj95rmw



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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:46 pm

"They do." No they don't.

I went to the Mobil 1 oil site & looked up the oil for a Ferrari 458 Italia. Same old Mobil 1 oil as
I've been getting at Walmart for $25/5 quart, but lower weight. My point is Mobil 1 is the same full
synthetic oil as it has always been. Not diluted as you have suggested. Incidentally Ferrari oil is
$50/quart.

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bcb577

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:21 pm

i guess everyone has a good opinion,i tend to go with valvaline synthetic blend,although I'm doing a lot of city driving so maybe next oil change,ill go full synthetic.
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buickwagon

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:35 am

sj95rmw wrote:
"They  do."     No they don't.

I went to the Mobil 1 oil site & looked up the oil for a Ferrari 458 Italia. Same old Mobil 1 oil as
I've been getting at Walmart for $25/5 quart, but lower weight.  My point is Mobil 1 is the same full
synthetic oil as it has always been. Not diluted as you have suggested.  Incidentally Ferrari oil is
$50/quart.


Mobil1 motor oil has never been 100% fully synthetic. It was always "100% Synthetic (exclusive of carrier oils)", and they don't even claim that anymore. And the stuff they market today is not the same as what they marketed before the merger with Exxon. They themselves brag about the

I'm not knocking the lubricating quality of Mobil1 or Amsoil or any of the others. They couldn't meet today's standards if they didn't meet a certain minimum quality. But all but their flagship labels are a blend of various base stocks, including mineral oil. And they do have a wide array of labels, marketed at different segments.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:49 am

like chickens fighting over the mash,..

put oil in the motor, it works better with it than without it,.

change it often, use a good filter,.

make sure the oil level is up where it should be,.

LT1's explode just as easy with synthetic blend oils, as they do with dinosaur blend oils,.
(trust me on this)

The synthetic blends take the heat from track or towing much better before they break down,.

For the average daily driver that gets a full throttle 10 sec squirt once in a while,.
spending large coin on expensive well marketed oil is just padding your comfort zone and the oil companies pockets,.

example:
I bought a 95 caprice sedan (not a 9c1) from a taxi company with 642,000 kms on it,.
the trans was shot,. the rear diff was shot,.but the motor ran great,.the pakistani guy in their shop said all their cars got oil and filter every 6000 kms,. their oil came in 200 gal plastic tanks, he didn't know the brand, or the weight...i would assume it was the cheapest stuff available,.

i pulled the motor out,.it looked very scungy on the outside,I cleaned it up and added new valve cover gaskets and resealed the intake back rail,. inside the motor looked really clean,.i stuffed it into a green woody i had bought and it ran great, i sold that wagon and never heard back from the guy,..

YRMV
JMHO
NWEOI
PDCC

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bcb577

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:47 pm

Well that's all great to know the average Joe like me just assume that since it says synthetic your spending your money wisely, but the valvaline max life is probably what I'll stick with, being that it could hold heat better before it breaks down, and I drive all city
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:41 pm

bcb577 wrote:
Well that's all great to know the average Joe like me just assume that since it says synthetic your spending your money wisely, but the valvaline max life is probably what I'll stick with, being that it could hold heat better before it breaks down, and I drive all city

well do what you want,. you're gonna anyway,.
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bcb577

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:42 pm

I've seen that same response written by you on another post phantom why so confrontional? Honestly life is great, enjoy different opinions. Just because I choose something other than you say doesn't mean that I oppose you just different opinions, thank God for the greatNess of life. It's to short to be so negative
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:46 pm

bcb577 wrote:
I've seen that same response written by you on another post phantom why so confrontional?

would a couple of happy faces make it better>>?? Smile Very Happy Surprised Laughing Wink

carry on,.


Last edited by phantom 309 on Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bcb577

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:50 pm

What have I directly not gone with as far as advise I say your mistaken sir what say you?
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bcb577

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:56 pm

Hey I'm on here to make friends not enemies I apologize for any misunderstanding,I've made I guess a grave mistake on replying to an old post and take any advice with open arms, anybody else see a mistake I made please help me correct them
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bcb577

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:27 pm

ah a little debate is good so the discussion,well...it continues,lol
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JaySS
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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:38 pm


bcb577 wrote:
I've seen that same response written by you on another post phantom why so confrontational? Honestly life is great, enjoy different opinions. Just because I choose something other than you say doesn't mean that I oppose you just different opinions, thank God for the greatness of life. It's too short to be so negative

Instead of getting upset, look around a little more and you will see that is his way of saying “It’s a free country, do as you wish”. You aren’t getting anything that everyone hasn’t already got. You’ve obviously seen the Wagonfest threads, so then you must be beginning to see that a great majority of us know each other on a face-to-face basis, not just behind the keyboard. As such, we often know where the person is coming from and that the intent is not malicious.

We have had people take offense first and think about what is being offered second, and as a result disregard good information simply because they didn’t like the way it was presented. That usually ends with some parting shot as they leave, often to eventually find the same answer, but only after - sometimes substantially - more time and expense on their part. Read what is offered, decide what works for you and resist the urge to publically disagree with the person who took time from their day to reply to your question is the best way to get help you need the next time it is requested.

bcb577 wrote:
Hey I'm on here to make friends not enemies I apologize for any misunderstanding, I've made I guess a grave mistake on replying to an old post and take any advice with open arms, anybody else see a mistake I made please help me correct them

No mistake. Pulling up and contributing to old threads - if they are relevant - is fine, actually preferred. But we do have a number of people that seem to think that part of their daily routine must consist of dragging out an old thread to merely add that they agree with it. And that does get tiring at times (as does adding LOL in every post, for that matter). We all love build threads. Show us what you are doing to your wagon, especially with photos, and everyone will want to be your friend.

One other thing all newbies need to do is to read more and get some seat time under their belt before they begin replying to technical questions. We already have a select few members that continue to (read: attempt to) answer tech questions without researching / checking their facts before posting. There are no points awarded for being the first to reply, only for having the correct answer. We haven’t had to give someone a timeout for continuously posting bad information (yet) but be assured their continued spewing of inaccurate information doesn’t go unnoticed. And don’t simply rely on post count to determine accuracy, while it is a help, there are exceptions on both sides.

So to conclude (and this is for everyone); don’t get caught up in assuming that someone is being confrontational until you begin to understand the personalities involved, or begin rushing to reply until you really do know the answer, and you’ll be just fine.

Welcome aboard, and enjoy the ride.

- J

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bcb577

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:41 pm

Jss,hey thanks for the info, your right I should not have assumed malicious intent, I'll take time to learn the ways and personalities before rushing to judgment. I'm guilty of trying to fit in before anyone even knows my personality. I look forward to building friendships. Everyone please accept my apologies if I was out of line.
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rjathon

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:57 pm

Say one buys a 1996 Roadmaster Wagon with 114,000 miles on it. Can one switch to synthetic or would it possibly leak the synthetic? One nice thing about synthetic is that I believe (I may be wrong) that it lasts a long time so if you have it in a car that you don't drive much it stays good where a mineral oil won't. Is this true?

Thanks
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bcb577

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PostSubject: Re: synthetic oil vs synthetic blend?   Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:35 pm

rjathon, I'm no expert but I've often been told that its shelf life is longer than conventional oil and some guys change their synthetic oil every 5,000 miles instead of every 3,000,but I'm just going off what I've been told,i know in my wives honda pilot we religiously watch the oil life monitor and we average 2 oil changes a year,i was concerned by this so i asked the service manager and he told me thats about normal in these vehicles
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