HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share
 

 Can I fit...

Go down 
AuthorMessage
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeFri Jan 16, 2015 1:32 am

Will an MSD 8366 HEI remote coil distributor with an Edelbrock 3704 TBI intake manifold fit under the cowl of my 91 Roadmaster.
I plan to fit the distributor through the hole in the manifold and install them together as a unit.
My concern is that there may not be enough room to lift the dist up to clock the rotor in the correct orientation to fire.
I measured the stock dist from the mounting pad on the stock intake to the top of the cap at 5.5 inches, and to the underside of the cowl at 8 inches.
The MSD dist is 7 inches to the top of the cap posts, 6 inches to the top of the rotor. I'm hoping the 2 inches between the top of the rotor and the underside of the cowl is enough to lift the dist up and clock it.
Has anyone done this?

My car is dead right now, the pickup coil is shot and the wires going from it to the module are baked and broken so the 185,000 mile rusty distributor HAS to come out.
I have a 3704 intake already that I was going to put on my 1 ton truck that has been bored to 46mm because I also just received 2 Ultimate Mods Throttle Bodies both bored to 46mm. One for my truck, one for my Roadmaster. I also have new GMPP Vortec heads and GMPP TBI Vortec intake that I was going to put on my Roadmaster in the spring.
Because my Roadmaster is my winter beater I need it fixed now, and because I have to do it outside on my driveway in snow and below freezing temperatures I don't want to change the heads too or I might as well change my cam too. I can't use my garage because my '55 Porsche Speedster and '72 914/6 are in there and I don't have anywhere else to put them.
I don't want to freeze my bag off taking it apart then find out that the distributor won't fit.
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeFri Jan 16, 2015 8:57 am

You only have to lift the distributor about an inch to reposition the shaft, so you should be able to work with it. The oil pump shaft may have to be rotated to allow the drive tang to key into the distributor shaft. I do not know how to do that while you have the taller distributor installed. You can use a standard height (tall) distributor in the B body if you install it with the manifold. You may have a little difficulty getting the cap on with the taller distributor.


Last edited by Fred Kiehl on Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
lakeffect
Moderator
lakeffect

Posts : 3889
Join date : 2009-08-18
Location : Rochester NY 14621

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeFri Jan 16, 2015 9:53 am

If the maqifold runner is taller on the #7 cylinder intake, then you might be forced to use the taller unit. Some are ground at that point to help the issue.
Back to top Go down
phantom 309

phantom 309

Posts : 5811
Join date : 2008-12-28
Age : 109

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 2:53 pm

the cap comes off to re clock it,. should be plenty of room,.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 6:14 pm

Thanks for the replies guys.
Getting the cap back on raises a question I hadn't considered, thanks Fred.
Phantom, the MSD dist is 7 inches tall with the cap on, from the manifold. The clearance from the manifold to the underside of the cowl is only 8 inches.
I doubt there is enough room to wrangle the cap back on, over the rotor, with only 1 inch clearance.
All I can think about doing to determine the fit is to go to the speed shop and let me test the MSD dist. It will likely look stupid but I could put the dist in  a box or something with 1 inch clearance to the top of the cap and see if I can take the cap on and off?

Surely someone on this board has a small block with a non-factory style distributor.
What about you guys who swapped out your TBI manifold for a carb one then used a TBI adapter plate. You must have changed your dist because the stock one won't fit through the hole.
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 6:37 pm

The hole can be built up at the back and opened up to fit the OEM distributor.
Back to top Go down
MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 580
Join date : 2014-01-12
Location : NH

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 7:08 pm

Machining the manifold to accept the OEM distributor would be the best option, in that way you can remove the distributor for service without pulling the whole top end off.

I also had the same issue with my distributor last year. Bought a complete aftermarket replacement on ebay for $70 shipped, it was complete from gear to cap. The Chinese ignition module was junk, car still did not run right, so I bought and installed an AC Delco ignition module. Car has run flawlessly since.

Well apparently they have gotten cheaper, which is good because you also need to buy the GM module.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Plus the GM module. It should come in an AC Delco package and look just like the picture. The aftermarket China modules are junk.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

About $100 shipped and you're up and running.
Back to top Go down
lakeffect
Moderator
lakeffect

Posts : 3889
Join date : 2009-08-18
Location : Rochester NY 14621

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 7:42 pm

Agreed that you should stick to the AC Delco part
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 8:19 pm

Thanks.
For the time being it looks like I'll just replace my distributor with a stock unit like MalibuSSwagon linked.
I just replaced my module this week with a new GM one because I thought that was the problem. When it was 20* below it would run good, but when the weather warmed up and underhood temps rose it would start to hesitate and miss. I knew from past experience that an indicator of pending module failure was poor performance when it got hot.
When I went to change the module I realized how bad it was inside the distributor, rust, rust and more rust, slop in the reluctor, and brittle, cracked wires from the pickup coil to the module. The wires had exposed copper braid showing and when I had to move them to unplug the module, they got worse. I actually didn't expect it to start after, but it did, it just ran worse than ever.
Thanks for all the input guys, I'll order a new distributor tonight.
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 9:24 pm

Remember to put heat sink compound on the module before installing it. You can get it from Radio Shack.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 10:53 pm

Yea, I just wasted $10 worth of heat sink compound putting the module in my current distributor.
All the Radio Shacks in Canada closed down years ago, I had to get it at a computer repair place.
The vendor on ebay won't ship his $48 distributors to Canada, the cheapest one at Rockauto is $73.
On the bright side I just scored a vintage MOON Equipment early small block intake with four, dual side draft Weber 45s, linkage, fuel rails and billet air filters.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 11:26 pm

Last month I scored a brand new complete Holley aftermarket fuel injection system with the computer and 1000cfm TB for a rectangle port head BBC for $1500. That is about half price. I have the heads, and am looking for the "right" short block and FEAD.
Back to top Go down
MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 580
Join date : 2014-01-12
Location : NH

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Jan 18, 2015 11:58 pm

Ahhh yes now I remember. I bought this one, same part number as the Rockauto one.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
phantom 309

phantom 309

Posts : 5811
Join date : 2008-12-28
Age : 109

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeMon Jan 19, 2015 12:50 am

dwightlightning wrote:

Phantom, the MSD dist is 7 inches tall with the cap on, from the manifold. The clearance from the manifold to the underside of the cowl is only 8 inches.
I doubt there is enough room to wrangle the cap back on, over the rotor, with only 1 inch clearance.
distributor caps can move sideways some,. depending on where the rotor is clocked,.
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeMon Jan 19, 2015 8:23 am

The only way to find out if the distributor cap can be removed is to do a trial installation, and try to remove and replace the cap...I know it is cold out, and you are trying to stay out in it as little as possible.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeWed Jan 28, 2015 12:06 am

Well, I received my stock type B-body distributor from Rockauto today and installed it. It was quite a bit different than the original GM one.
The pickup coil, reluctor, pole piece was completely different, it looks like it can be changed with the distributor still installed.
I replaced the Chinese module with the GM one I got 2 weeks ago, and there was NO heat sink compound on the new distributor.

Just so everyone knows now, THERE IS NO WAY A TALLER DISTRIBUTOR WOULD GO IN OUR CARS!
There just is not enough room, you can barely get the stock distributor in and out due to the lack of clearance between the manifold and the cowl.
The car fired right up but on a test drive there was still a little hesitation and a very slight bucking at cruise.
I am going to install my TPI fuel pump tomorrow and if that doesn't fix it I will change my injectors for a pair of low mile ones I have and a new 14 psi regulator spring.
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeWed Jan 28, 2015 8:35 am

My 92 OCC has a problem with bucking at about 47-50 MPH, and it will do it when I apply throttle at about 70-75 as well. If I apply full throttle it will calm down and run smoothly. The really odd part is that it did the same thing with the original LO3, and now with the LO5. I changed everything including the computer and TBI to the ones that came with the LO5. I did not change the transmission, the wiring harness, IAT, or ESC module.

It could be your spark retard signal from the computer to the ESC, or the ground for the ESC. I would check them first before swapping a pump.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeWed Jan 28, 2015 3:13 pm

FRED HELP!
Where do I disconnect the ESC black/tan wire to set my timing and where does the ESC brown wire physically ground?
All the wires disappear into tightly wrapped and 25 year baked harnesses.
On a TBI pickup I had, I think the ESC wire was under the glovebox.
I know I have the new distributor body exactly clocked to where the old one was but with the slop in the old one, my timing is now advanced because I have pinging under heavy throttle.
I couldn't set the timing yesterday because I couldn't find the disconnect and it got too dark.
After searching TBI issues I think my current bucking and occasional popping are due to too much advance.
Thanks.

EDIT: Okay, I think I found it. The long rectangular connector with the baby blue ends along the pass side valve cover.
I'm also going to run a 10 or 12 gauge jumper wire between the grounds on the thermostat housing stud and the negative battery terminal just to be sure of a good ground. I cleaned up the ring terminals there a while ago, but I don't trust the steel stud going into the aluminum manifold, electrolytic corrosion between dissimilar metals may compromise a good ground.
Is this where the ESC wire grounds?
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeWed Jan 28, 2015 5:03 pm

UPDATE:
I disconnected the wire and checked the timing at idle, it was 12*.
I reconnected it and the timing at idle was 32*.

I disconnected it again and set the timing at 2*
When I reconnected it, the timing was 22*

Interesting though, was that the check engine light wasn't on? I had been prepared to disconnect the battery to clear the code.
I took it for a test drive and the bucking at part throttle cruise was still there, exactly the same, but the pinging was gone under heavy throttle.
I'm convinced that it isn't fuel delivery. It has a new fuel filter, the old one was rusty but easy to blow through.
I went out to a deserted highway and floored it from a dead stop up to 100 MPH.
No hesitation, no bucking, the transmission shifts at 5,000 RPM, no issues. On coast down from 100 everything is normal. At idle everything is normal.
It's ONLY at part throttle and cruise. This leads me to believe it might be the Throttle Position Sensor because everything is okay when the throttle is closed, everything is okay when the throttle is wide open, it's only in between.
I have a few spares from junkyard TBI units I've scrounged over the years, I'm going to try one or two and report back.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeWed Jan 28, 2015 7:32 pm

Still no luck.
I tried 3 different TPS sensors and all had the same results.
I even switched out my new MSD coil for the one the car came with to see if it might be defective.
What next?
Bad ESC module?
I called the local NAPA and they have one for $160!
Rockauto has the same Standard Motor Products part # for $55.
See how badly us Canadians get screwed on parts prices?
Unless anyone can suggest something else, I'm going to take the 40 mile drive to the closest wrecker and get one.

This is a nice car but it's still just my winter beater. It has to run, because I can't continue driving my dually cube van everywhere.
If I don't get it fixed by Friday, on Saturday the sawzall is coming out. I'll cut out the cowl so I can put in a points distributor and throw on one of the Edelbrock intakes and Holley carbs that I have laying around.
With no transistors or electronics I'll be good to go when Iran hits us with an Electromagnetic Pulse.
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeWed Jan 28, 2015 7:43 pm

That is about what it is like here as well. NAPA is noted for having higher prices than everyone else. The timing should be 0 degrees with the connector apart.

I also contemplated changing the EGR solenoid (not valve) because it may be sticking and allowing vacuum to the EGR valve after it is no longer called for. The EGR system operates when you are driving at a steady state, and when you step on the throttle it is supposed to close the valve.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeWed Jan 28, 2015 7:56 pm

Thanks Fred, I hadn't considered the EGR solenoid.
I checked the EGR valve itself when cold and the diaphragm moved okay, so I figured it was all right.
I'll pick up a solenoid at the wreckers tomorrow as well.
They have a couple of TBI Caprices there that haven't been picked over.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeThu Jan 29, 2015 9:23 pm

So, I went to the junkyard today and the Caprices were gone.
They did however have a '92 Roadmaster wagon just like mine.
I got the ESC module and the EGR solenoid. The car looked well cared for with 120,000 miles on it. I took the air cleaner housing off and it had a new air filter. The throttle body was super clean and looked brand new, so for $30, I took it as well.
When I got home I installed the ESC module and took a test drive.
Exactly the same.
Then I installed the EGR solenoid and it didn't make any difference either.
It only takes a half hour to swap throttle bodies so tomorrow I'll do that.
Other than that I don't know what to do next.
It ran perfect when I got it 3 months ago.
In that time I've put on wheels, tires, windshield, new aftermarket hood, fenders, grille, and bumper cover.
I've installed plugs, cap, rotor, fuel filter, oil cooler lines, rad hoses, heater hoses and serpentine belt.
I've changed the oil, trans fluid, rear diff fluid, thermostat and flushed the anti-freeze.
All in the interest of having a reliable winter beater that I wouldn't have to repair in the cold.
So much for good intentions.
In the hope of adding more performance I've purchased ceramicoated long tube headers, H-pipe, Vortec heads, GMPP Vortec TBI intake manifold, Comp Cam and a bored, ultimate mods, 47mm throttle body.
I need reliable winter transportation so I think I'll go look at an aluminum 2015 F-150 4X4.
If I'm lucky, Pick 'N Pull will give me $200 for this whale carcass.
Back to top Go down
bamalongroof

bamalongroof

Posts : 759
Join date : 2013-08-23
Age : 66
Location : Huntsville, AL

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeThu Jan 29, 2015 10:30 pm

Dont be rash I like the whole carb idea.
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeFri Jan 30, 2015 1:14 pm

Have you checked the EGR solenoid? The EGR opens under steady state driving, and if the solenoid is not allowing it to close quickly, it may cause a lean mixture. I would think this would show up as a code, but if it is only for a few seconds, the computer may not be paying attention to the mixture at that moment. From what I understand, the computer generally runs in open loop and occasionally checks in to see if everything is working correctly.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeFri Jan 30, 2015 5:41 pm

Yes, I replaced the EGR solenoid yesterday after I replaced the ESC module.
No change in performance.
I just finished cleaning the throttle body I picked up yesterday, with my new ultrasonic cleaner that I bought myself for Christmas. They sure do a nice job with just soap and hot water.
I have a new GM rebuild kit that I bought to use when I install my bored throttle body so I'm putting it in this throttle body instead.
Who knows, maybe my current TB has a bad spring or torn fuel pressure regulator diaphragm or maybe a bad injector. At idle they have a nice cone spray but maybe one's bad under load.
We'll see. I've changed the entire ignition system, I don't know what else it could be.
Back to top Go down
buickwagon

buickwagon

Posts : 951
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Muskoka, Ontario

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 12:36 am

Where abouts are you located? Do you have a scan tool?
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 1:29 am

I'm in Canada.
I have a decent code reader but not a scan tool.
It has no stored codes and the only time the SES light comes on is when I run it with the air cleaner housing off and the MAF sensor disconnected. As soon as I button it up and hook up the MAF sensor the light goes out.
It didn't trigger the SES light when I disconnected the ESC connector to set the timing which I found unusual.
Back to top Go down
buickwagon

buickwagon

Posts : 951
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Muskoka, Ontario

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 7:53 am

I'm in Canada too, with lots of scan tools. But Canada is a big place, as you probably noticed. How close to Muskoka are you?
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 8:11 am

The SES light is not triggered by disconnecting the ESC connector to set the timing.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 11:10 am

buickwagon wrote:
I'm in Canada too, with lots of scan tools. But Canada is a big place, as you probably noticed. How close to Muskoka are you?

About 4,000 km away?
I'm in Calgary.
But thanks for the offer of help!

I'm going to try my rebuilt throttle body today.
I don't really expect any difference, but it's one more potential source that I can eliminate.
Back to top Go down
buickwagon

buickwagon

Posts : 951
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Muskoka, Ontario

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 12:29 pm

dwightlightning wrote:
About 4,000 km away?
I'm in Calgary.

Ok, that's a bit more than an afternoon's drive Smile

I'm a firm believer in scan tools as opposed to code readers. An example that happened to me two days ago:

My wife and I were returning from town in her car. Rolling along the highway with the cruise set to 100kph, the car suddenly died. No check engine light appeared as she coasted off to the side of the highway, and the car would not restart. We had it towed home after some basic road-side troubleshooting failed to get us going again.

I hooked up the scan tool (my Chinese Tech 2 clone) and found a P0101 -- suggesting a problem with the Mass Air Flow sensor (this particular code has to occur twice to trigger the SEL). Going by what a code reader could detect, the average person would probably have changed the MAF sensor, cleared the code, and restarted the car -- then would have been frustrated when the car died again a few miles down the road.

However, I cleared the code without changing the sensor, restarted the car and went for a drive while monitoring all related sensor inputs. I noticed that the MAP sensor output barely changed when my wife accelerated and decelerated -- it should have been ranging from 15 or 20 up to 80 or 90 kpa, but it was stuck, only varying from about 25 to 27kpa. This is still within the acceptable range, so it did not throw a MAP code. Every so often, the car would die, throwing a P 0101 code each time. I'd clear the code, the car would restart. Another clue was the sudden change in injector pulse width at the moment the car died, despite no substantial change in the Throttle Position Sensor -- demonstrating that the PCM suddenly changed it's mind about how much fuel was required for no apparent reason.

Back home after the test drive I did some basic checks (metering the voltage to the sensor, connecting a variable vacuum source to the connector, etc.) all while watching the live sensor data on the scan tool -- verifying that the problem was the MAP sensor itself as opposed to wiring or failed PCM. I changed the MAP, the car runs fine now, and I didn't waste money swapping in an unneeded MAF sensor.

The problem boils down to this: the PCM compared two values -- the measured MAF and the calculated MAF (derived in part from the MAP). When they disagreed by more than a certain amount, and since there was no MAP code stored, the PCM wrongly assumed the measured MAF was inaccurate and switched to delivering fuel based on the calculated value instead of the measured value.

I have seen this sort of thing many times in the past: the PCM is confused by a sensor output that, while valid, is erroneous. A code reader is of little use in these cases; what is needed is the ability to observe the raw sensor data coupled with an understanding of how the various components of the system interact with each other.

I suspect your problem may well be another example of this principle. The older cars do not have as many sensors and therefore cannot provide as much information, but the key may well be hidden in the available data and you will never be able to see that data without a scan tool. Instead, you are limited to swapping parts, hoping to find the right combination.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 1:25 pm

Thanks for the detailed reply.
I have browsed these Chinese Tech 2's on Alibaba but have been wary about the quality and customer service.
I've been burned before with an international sale, got a defective product after paying $100 shipping, and been told, no problem, spend another $100 shipping it back, spend another $100 getting us to ship you a free replacement that may or may not work.
Of course, these days Genuine GM Tech 2's are made in China, so go figure.

I'm an old school carburetor and points guy. I collect vintage induction systems for GEN I small block Chevs.
Right now I'm trying to decide which intake system to go on my '55 Chevy pickup that has an original '57 Corvette 283 / 270 HP with a Duntov solid 30/30 cam and factory original dual 4 barrel intake with Carter WCFB carbs. These primitive carbs only flow 385 CFM each and it runs out of breath at 6,500 RPM because the truck is a lot heavier than the Corvette they were designed for.
Right now I have 3 choices that I've fully rebuilt:
1964 Mickey Thompson Cross Ram with with 2 Holley 0-9776 450 CFM mechanical secondary carbs.
1969 Weiand Tunnel Ram with 2 Holley 0-1850 465 CFM Vacuum secondary carbs.
Or, the current front runner which is a 1971 MOON Equipment Tubular Cross Ram with four WEBER 45 DCOE sidedraught carbs. It would go nicely with the vintage MOON, 2 piece aluminum timing cover and staggered valve covers that are already on the engine.

I've not had trouble with 87-95 TBIs before, they're a pretty basic system.
In fact, my 1991 Chevy dually cube van has the original, never rebuilt, 350 TBI engine in it with 465,000 KMs on it.
It has ceramicoated longtubes  on it, Hooker H-pipe, Edelbrock 3704 TBI intake, Hypertech "salad bowl" Power Charger, MSD distributor, MSD coil, MSD ignition box, and a Lunati Voodoo cam.
It doesn't even have a tune yet it launches like a beast with the DANA 70 diff and 4.88 gears.
Just 2 weeks ago I received two, 47mm bored, Ultimate Mods TBIs, one for this truck and one for the wagon.

I'm not about to let this wagon beat me. I've already invested too much time and money into it.
With the new front clip on it (Impala SS grille and bumper, fenders and hood) I was prepared to put a nice paint job on it. I've got NIB Centerline Convo Pro ultralight billet wheels to go on it in the spring, 15 X 10 rear and 15 X 8.5 front.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 1:43 pm

Dwight,how about some pics of those classic intakes PLEASE?Definitely use the moon system with the weber sidedrafts,those were some pretty exotic systems back in the day.What do you use to adjust those webers?Remember the old mercury vaccum tubes?Sorry to change the subject.
Back to top Go down
buickwagon

buickwagon

Posts : 951
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Muskoka, Ontario

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 6:27 pm

dwightlightning wrote:
Thanks for the detailed reply.
I have browsed these Chinese Tech 2's on Alibaba but have been wary about the quality and customer service.

Rightfully so. I have a thread somewhere around here about my Tech2 purchase, and I note some of the horror stories I came across. There is an element of risk, but there are some steps you can take to reduce the risk somewhat.
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSat Jan 31, 2015 9:48 pm

If you are putting 10 inch wide wheels on the back of the wagon, you may have tire interference. You might be able to roll the fenders to get them to fit.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 1:35 am

Okay, here is the actual MOON Intake I purchased:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It was local and he had no bids at his $2,500 price so once his listing was up I contacted him and negotiated a good cash price with no fleabay fees.

This is the Mickey Thompson Cross Ram Intake I bought:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It is a one year only manifold from 1964 with the curved corners. From '65-'72 the MT cross rams had square corners because it was cheaper to cast them that way.
The MT cross rams were different from the Edelbrock XC-8 and Offenhauser high cross ram in that they had a crossover chamber to equalize the vacuum between the two carb plenums.
The others were completely independent which basically divided your V-8 into two 4 cylinders, a left bank and a right bank, which led to serious tuning problems for the street due to reversion and you could never balance the two sides. They were only good for the strip and above 3,500 RPM.

Fred, regarding the 10" wide rear Centerlines I have, I currently have 15 X 9 wheels on the rear with 5.5 inch backspacing. They have 1.5" of clearance to the rear fender lip from the tire.
The Centerlines have 6 inch backspacing so I think I'll be good.
Back to top Go down
Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5193
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 8:23 am

The diameter of the hole for the distributor will have to be increased, if you are going to use a stock distributor. Not only is the distributor shorter, the larger hole allows you to lean the distributor further and clear the cowl when installing it. You will probably have to add material at the  back of the manifold before making the hole larger.

Check the inside clearance as well, or you must have some skinny tires. The sidewalls of the tires will stick out further with the 10 inch rims, and that is the issue not the rim itself.
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 1:40 pm

Fred, the vintage manifold is going on my '55 Chevy pickup with a '57 Vette 283.

Here is a link to it as I bought it with the original 235 six cylinder:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'm in the process of freshening up the 283 / 270 HP engine as well as converting the truck to four wheel drive.
Some purists are hatin' on me for modding a mint, original truck. As it turns out, BJ Auctions are not so perfect and high end as they would like people to think.
They always talk about "provenance", and "numbers matching" etc., but apparently that only comes into play if the seller who consigned the vehicle has done the legwork.
They are ONLY concerned about their commission and don't do any fact checking or background work of their own. They talk a good game.
The VIN that is attached to this truck, the one THEY SOLD IT BY, in fact, belongs to a 1963 Chevy 1 ton dually!
When I contacted BJ about this discrepancy, they basically said: BUYER BEWARE!
As that VIN tag is the only identifier on this truck, the frame was ground down and powdercoated, I will never know what the actual VIN of this truck is.
Worse yet, is the fact that I will never even know if this truck is a '55, '56 or '57, because they are identical, except for the easily changeable '57 grille.
So, the next time you see a mint, frame off restoration of a Yenko Camaro or some other rare musclecar go across the ramp at BJ, you can safely assume it may be a CLONE.

All that aside, this is a killer truck. Everytime I drive it people are yelling at me: Awesome truck!"
Everytime I get gas or stop in a parking lot people want to talk about it.
The strangest thing was when a muslim woman, in a hijab, in an oncoming Escalade gave me a huge thumbs up. That was weird.

I have installed a Chevy 12 bolt diff with a locker and 4.10s in the rear.
I've built a DANA 44 with a Detroit Tru Trac with 4.09s for the front.
Behind the engine and the ZOOM, Borg and Beck style ceramic clutch is an Advance Adapters 27% overdrive transmission. Behind that, is a Muncie SM 465 transmission with "granny low" first gear. Behind that, is a New Process 205, gear driven transfer case with a twin stick conversion.
So, the OD has a stick, the trans has a stick, and the transfer case has 2 sticks.
The OD and the trans give me 8 forward gears and 2 reverse.
The twin stick conversion on the T-case allows rear wheel drive, front wheel drive or four wheel drive.
It also allows low or high range in any of the drive configurations doubling the available gears to 16.
As an example, I can drive it on dry pavement, in front wheel drive, and with gear splitting can use 16 forward gears and 4 reverse.
The beauty of the front wheel drive option is that you can put on the park brake to the rear wheels and turn around in your own wheelbase, the added bonus is freaking people out with front wheel burnouts.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 2:00 pm

dwightlightning wrote:
Okay, here is the actual MOON Intake I purchased:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-Moon-Weber-Cross-Ram-Intake-Manifold-Hot-Rat-Rod-Small-Block-Chev-/201262491546?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=%252Bg60R9D8oi9UJlyGyk8mg0MIcgk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
It was local and he had no bids at his $2,500 price so once his listing was up I contacted him and negotiated a good cash price with no fleabay fees.

This is the Mickey Thompson Cross Ram Intake I bought:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-M-T-MICKEY-THOMPSON-CROSS-RAM-ALUMINUM-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-SMALL-BLOCK-CHEVY-/301430302308?viewitem=&vxp=mtr&item=301430302308&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3AOU%3ACA%3A1120&nma=true&si=%252Bg60R9D8oi9UJlyGyk8mg0MIcgk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
It is a one year only manifold from 1964 with the curved corners. From '65-'72 the MT cross rams had square corners because it was cheaper to cast them that way.
The MT cross rams were different from the Edelbrock XC-8 and Offenhauser high cross ram in that they had a crossover chamber to equalize the vacuum between the two carb plenums.
The others were completely independent which basically divided your V-8 into two 4 cylinders, a left bank and a right bank, which led to serious tuning problems for the street due to reversion and you could never balance the two sides. They were only good for the strip and above 3,500 RPM.

Fred, regarding the 10" wide rear Centerlines I have, I currently have 15 X 9 wheels on the rear with 5.5 inch backspacing. They have 1.5" of clearance to the rear fender lip from the tire.
The Centerlines have 6 inch backspacing so I think I'll be good.

Thanks Dwight,that moon intake you bought brings back some great memories.Back in the mid 70s our local corvette club had a member with a flared fender 63 split window that he raced frequently.Had a built 327 with that moon intake and those hideous hooker sidepipes.He let me drive it once and the throttle response was so fast that it was difficult to drive smoothly unless you pinned the gas pedal and shifted above 7 grand.That was back when split windows were cheap and everyone thought LOUD was fast.Cant believe the prices of these intakes now compared to what they cost in the 70s.
Thanks Again
Back to top Go down
dwightlightning



Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-10-13

Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 2:42 pm

No problem Jim.
You can still buy the intakes new from MOON for $1,650, the carbs are $500 each and $250 for linkage.
I have been looking for an affordable "vintage" one for years.
This ebay seller was local to me and had no bites on his $2,500 US "Buy it Now" price. I contacted him after the auction ended with a cash offer. His ebay fees and Paypal fees would have been $500 plus the hassle of crating it and shipping it, so I factored that into my offer.
I ended up paying $1,900 CDN for it, which at today's exchange rate is about $1,520 US.

I didn't like the ball-milled air cleaners or fuel rails. They were "too square" and didn't fit the period correct look I'm going for, so I ordered eight, 6" velocity stacks and the proper WEBER fuel inlets for it from Pierce Manifolds. They have a huge inventory of WEBER as well as all carb manufacturer's parts, with super fast shipping.
Now it looks like it is supposed to and is 27" wide, bell to bell on the stacks. It wouldn't likely fit too well on a car, but will be fine on my truck.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Can I fit... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Can I fit...   Can I fit... Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Can I fit...
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
GM Longroof Forum :: Longroof Tech :: Engine-
Jump to: