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 Big block build for the Starship

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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:12 am

"The 3.23 gears make it more of a highway car than a drag car." Clearly,everyone agrees a big block is a highway car. Twisted Evil affraid cheers
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stewzer55

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:56 am

And with a 2.56 he could bring it up to the Ohio Mile. lol!
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:30 pm

With 3.23 gears, 6000 RPM is 200MPH. My cam is only good to about 5800 RPM.
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Sprocket

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:34 pm

Fred Kiehl wrote:
With 3.23 gears, 6000 RPM is 200MPH. My cam is only good to about 5800 RPM.

I had a discussion with LS7 Jerry and asked him what he thought his would top out at. He said that the gearing would give him a theoretical 208 mph, but with the wind resistance, etc. he figured the car would top out in the 180s.

Any plans to improve the brakes?
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:15 pm

I do not have any funds for brakes at this time. My next project is probably the rear. If I decide to get a job, I may look into brake upgrades.

I do not know what the aerodynamics are on the wagon, so I do not know the theoretical speed is with a given HP level. I have heard that with 265 HP, LT1s can go about 140. If that is so, 200 may be possible with 500 HP. I do not think mine will ever see 200.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:49 am

Fred Kiehl wrote:
I may look into brake upgrades.

I do not know what the aerodynamics are on the wagon, so I do not know the theoretical speed is with a given HP level. I have heard that with 265 HP, LT1s can go about 140. If that is so, 200 may be possible with 500 HP.

From personal experience yes a stock wagon will go close to 140, it's all about gear ratio,.
Not what you'd think tho,. the small block can't pull the long 2:56/2:93 ratio's up past 130 ish ,.

with 3:73's we can get 140+ at times depending on the the wind,.
the wagons really need a couple of aerodynamic foils to break the huge vacuum created behind the car due to its shape,.
I have had my 9c1 up to 159 mph,.sedans cut the air better,.

I have bigger front brakes on the 9c1 and bigger brakes all around on the blue wagon,. they are a home built setup with C5 rotors and C3 calipers . The braking power is so much better on these cars,.and the brakes don't fade coming down quick from 120 mph +,.

unlike the a stock wagon when you have two feet on the pedal two hands on the bottom of the steering wheel pulling up for dear life and feeling the vibrating slowly disappearing and car not slowing down much as the stock pads and rotors just give up,..the rear drums work from 100 down to about 60 on a hard application,.
we don't run the orange car much over a 100mph due to its stock brakes,. which in my opinion are bloody scary at anything faster than that,..

I would not dream of doubling the horsepower on a stock wagon without upgrading the brakes first,..unless it had 4;56's etc and was  just a drag type track only car,. but big motors and long gears do do spectacular burnouts , which is impressive to the uneducated,..

I am still young enough at heart to drive comfortably at 120 mph plus speeds,.

You need the big brakes for when the other driver Doesn't realize you are traveling so fast, and they get in your way, big anchors are nice,.along with rubber that can handle the braking too,.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:42 am

I am not planning to run it at other than highway speeds for now. If I decide to go for a top end run, I will make sure the brakes are up to stopping it. For now it is just for 0-60~85 runs to surprise some Mustangs, Chargers, and Corvettes. I would be lucky to hit 100 MPH in the quarter mile. The added HP does make it nice for pulling into expressway traffic.

A vertical foil on each side at the rear scooping air inward should fill a lot of the vacuum behind the car. It would not have to go all the way to the top, because there is some air attachment at the top of the gate window. Removing the wiper, and placing the early rack at the back would help some as well.
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81X11

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:56 am

Every time I see this post and read STARSHIP that damn "We Built this City" song starts playing in my head...and then I can't get ride of it... Dammit.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:17 pm

I can not say that I remember that song.
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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:49 am

Hey Mike,"We built this city..." Twisted Evil
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RedandBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:58 am

On rock and rollllllllllllllllll?
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81X11

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:45 pm

Lord....not again.... Evil or Very Mad
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TheRoadmasterKing



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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:11 pm

RedandBlack wrote:
On rock and rollllllllllllllllll?

Say you don't know me, or recognize my face
Say you don't care who goes to that kind of place...

Take it away, Mike!
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:30 pm

I've been hijacked.
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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:01 pm

Its better than being Rick-rolled,Fred. What a Face You may want to Google that pharse,lol.
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TheRoadmasterKing



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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:03 pm

Here's a cool video of a big block wagon build btw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:05 pm

I pulled the carpet to check for leaks on the passenger's side, and did not find any. The last big leak was probably because I had the hood with the hole in it on the car. So, I took the carpet to a carwash today, and gave it a good scrubbing and rinsed it. I am letting it dry out, so when I get the car back, I can install it again. I was hoping to get a new one from a forum member, but he won't get back to me, so I will have to put the carpet I have back in. I am going to put some sound deadening material down before I put the carpet back.
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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:16 am

Got a pic of the new hood?
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:08 pm

Just starting to make it.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:00 am

The body shop finally started working on the hit and run damage yesterday. Maybe I will get to drive it soon.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:01 pm

I get it back from the body shop today. Ii need to put the PS cladding back on, the fender skirts, and the interior in. Monday to the garage for a brake tuneup.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:23 pm

I put the trim back on, and fitted the fender skirt...to no avail. It popped off, and is damaged beyond repair. I have to finish the new molds and make sure the mounting pins are long enough.
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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:30 am

Fred,maybe thats a sign to lose the skirts... scratch Just thinking out loud,lol.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:43 am

I have some plugs to make new improved molds for fender skirts. I really like the look of them.

I was at the trans shop and they gave me instructions on making a custom cable bracket. I carved one out of a piece of aluminum, and the trans seems to shift much better.

I got most of the interior back in, and now have a passenger's seat. I hope I got all of the leaks fixed.

My left header to exhaust pipe lost its gasket, and I need to address that. I am headed to the muffler shop today.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:32 am

I developed a leak at the trans cooler, and had to find another one. Fortunately there is a yard that has a FW limo, and it had one. I had to repair the left mounting bracket, but it all worked out, and only cost me $10 plus some time on the work bench. I washed it out really good with some carb cleaner before installing it. I think the fitting that leaked was distorted. They are made from some nearly dead soft aluminum.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:46 pm

Brakes are not working properly. I found that my vacuum is only 10 inches. I bought a vacuum pump system, and will hook it up when it arrives. I can put the original washer fluid tank in to make room for it.

I started working on the hood with a bump. It is going to be smaller than I originally planned, because I am rerouting the intake between the AC compressor and the alternator. The coolant hose may go back over the valve cover like it was originally.

I am accumulating the parts to upgrade the rear. I picked up some 3.42 gears, and a Detroit Truetrac differential. Today I ordered the bearing races for the differential, and I will get the bearings when the races arrive. I have a spare rear to build, so the down time will be minimal.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:21 am

I am in the process of installing a vacuum pump for the brakes. I bought a good returned one, and found out why there are so many of them available. The morons that make them use 5/16 inch hoses. There are no 5/16 inch fittings anywhere to be found. The vacuum brake system uses 3/8 inch tubing throughout the whole system. For most people this would be a dead end, and they would return the unit. I have a solution. I made a couple fittings from brass tubing available at hobby shops. They make telescoping tubing by the 32nd of an inch. If you go one size larger, it is a tight fit, and the same size as the ends on the pump and vacuum switch. I got 3 lengths that telescope from 15/32 to 13/32 inch size for a tight fit on 7/16 and 3/8 inch vacuum/fuel hose. I sweat soldered the pieces together (2 inch long fitting one end is for 3/8, and the other for 7/16). Another option is to sweat solder sleeve a 3/8 inch brass barb with the largest tubing on one end.  Either way, the problem is solved, but a PITA. What were these guys thinking when they designed it?
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RedandBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:27 am

Will this be at Wagonfest FL?
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:43 am

Looks like it. It may still have the dinosaur turd on the hood, no center console, and no fender skirts (new tires caught one, and it is torn to shreds...I have new plugs to make better molds).
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Rev Bob



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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:25 pm

""There are no 5/16 inch fittings anywhere to be found.""

Could the 5/16" fittings be 8 mm? Eight mm is a relatively common European tubing.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:13 pm

They may be 8mm, but they are not available here. I still have to go between the 7/16 hose and the 3/8 inch hose.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:03 pm

Rev Bob wrote:
""There are no 5/16 inch fittings anywhere to be found.""

Could the 5/16" fittings be 8 mm? Eight mm is a relatively common European tubing.

8mm and 5/16 or only a couple of thousands apart,. rubber hose will stretch,.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:38 pm

My issue is with 7/16th not 5/16. I have fixed the problem. I made my own adapter to 3/8 inch hose for the brakes. The whole job will be done tomorrow.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:40 pm

The plague of issues continues. I had a leak at one end of my trans cooler, so I replaced it...now it leaks at both ends.

I got the vacuum pump installed. The brakes are more reliable on the second and third application, but do not seem much stronger. I am going to bleed the fronts again.

I have also developed a small exhaust leak. The left side lost a bolt, and fear the gasket may have partially blown out.
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Sprocket

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:44 am

Fred Kiehl wrote:
The plague of issues continues. I had a leak at one end of my trans cooler, so I replaced it...now it leaks at both ends.

Glad I'm not the only one this kind of thing happens too....

"Hey I fixed it!.......and now it's worse"

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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:19 am

^^^Amen,Brother.^^^ Evil or Very Mad
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:49 pm

I have reason to believe one of the fittings I got for the transmission cooler is not the right one. I can tighten one and it will stop leaking, but the other (same side as the first cooler) will not stop, and looks like it may not fit properly. They have different size hex flats as well. The good side is 19mm, and the bad side is 18 mm. I am going to see if I can get another one like the 19mm side.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:26 pm

I found the correct fittings for the transmission cooler. Now to get the stupid thing installed and the car running.

This comes at the exact time I need the car running...the trans on the white car is slowly dying. I have another trans, but I wanted to freshen the old engine from the 91, and put it and the trans in the 92. I do not want to replace the trans, then replace the engine a month later. I hope to sell the engine and core trans to offset some of the cost of refreshing the 91 engine.
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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:08 am

When it rains it pours...
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:46 pm

I finally got the trans fluid leak solved. It was a bad fitting. The trans took 36 oz. of fluid to fill it again.

Now it is off to the AC shop to get a custom hose made.

It is soon time for the first oil change. 7 qts. and a filter.

I ordered a digital pulse modifier to correct the speedometer. I am going to change gear ratios, and it will make it easy to adjust the speedo. The signal also affects the cruise control.
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stewzer55

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:13 pm

Any reason why you went with a vacuum pump over a hydroboost? Would a hydroboost for a 350 Diesel have bolted right in?
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:33 pm

stewzer55 wrote:
Any reason why you went with a vacuum pump over a hydroboost? Would a hydroboost for a 350 Diesel have bolted right in?
shhhhh,... 454 1 tons have hydroboost braking too,.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:43 pm

I got the vacuum pump system for $80. It works just fine. I still think I need the front brakes bled. I saw a neat "solo-bleeds" set of bleeder fittings in the JEG's catalog. Made by Earl's. I may get a set for my fronts.

I got my speedometer signal modifier today. I am going to grab a VSS module from on the convenience center, and pigtail from a 91 Caprice, and use it to make a plug and play harness.
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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:26 pm

Here we go again...The AC guy who is going to make my custom hose says that I must have the primary fan come on when the AC is on. I can not program the computer to do it, so I am adding another relay to bypass the temp controlled relay. Always one more thing.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:14 am

I may try another way, and connect the input to two separate circuits in the computer, and tie the outputs together as well. That way I may be able to make it work without installing another relay. I will still have to splice a couple of wires.

Someone on ISSF mentioned that Summit has a two piston caliper that is a bolt in for the front brakes. He says they are working very well.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ssb-a185/overview/year/1996/make/chevrolet/model/caprice

When I can save up enough money, I may try a set.
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MalibuSSwagon



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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:05 am

Vintage air has a "trinary switch" that can trigger a relay to kick on the fan when the AC is running. It's both the AC pressure safety switch for the compressor and the fan switch. Look into it.

Edit
http://www.vintageair.com/AC%20Basics/AC%20BASICS%20%206%2029%2009.pdf

Quote :

Safety switches
a. Binary - High (406 PSI) and Low (30 PSI) pressure protection
b. Trinary - High (406 PSI) and Low (30 PSI) pressure plus an electric fan engagement signal
at 254 PSI (on high pressure side)
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:13 pm

Already wiring another relay. It is simple enough...green demand wire to the relay coil, coil to ground, wire contacts to battery, and spliced into the fan.
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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:32 pm

I got the AC fan on bypass relay installed today. I had to solder some huge wires. Fortunately, I have an industrial sized soldering iron, and 3, 12 gauge wires were not a problem for it. I am slowly knocking out the little crazy things that this car has come up with. I hooked it up to the secondary fan.

I put a 1/16 inch shim under the end of the trans cable on the recommendation of the guy who built it. I hope it cures the early upshifts.
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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:38 pm

You got less than 4 weeks, Fred, until Daytona. They'll be some disappointed people if it doesn't make it.

Tom
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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Big block build for the Starship   Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:45 am

Including Fred. What a Face
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