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 A sad day....

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theblurrrr

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PostSubject: A sad day....   Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:34 pm

Hello fellow Longroofers.

A few days ago I parked my '93 RMW in front of my house and shortly thereafter it was struck in the LR corner by a woman in her Mercury Sable. (She said she didn't see it! )
No injuries, but Geico has determined it to be a total loss worth about $2700(vs. $5000 in repair costs). The car runs and drives fine; has all options including leather, factory CD, tow package, HD suspension, etc.  Like most of these cars, it runs flawlessly and gets great mileage.  Doesn't burn or leak any oil.  Everything works.  I believe the value on these cars is going up.

A '96 RMW in Portland, Oregon with similar miles (145k)and condition sold on eBay in May for $5000.  Geico says the only comparable car was in a nearby and had 250k miles on it.

What would YOU do???  Is it worth getting another appraisal?  Should I accept the settlement? Do you think it's worth more?

Thanks in advance for your opinions!
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:58 pm

Definitely try to get more money from them.

Then buy my 95 caprice wagon to console yourself.
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Mark 96 Roady



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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:33 pm

Definitely get more documentation from them as to how they determined the price. A 250k car is not the same as a 145k car. Look on ebay for sold vehicles, and they will show prices. Also consider keeping the car and fixing it yourself. They would pay you what you both determine the car is worth, pre accident condition, then deduct the salvage value from your settlement. On a car that old, the salvage value should not be very much. Then, find your own used parts, and shop for a body shop to do the repairs. Or, just make it safe, and drive it damaged. Obviously it depends on how and where it is damaged. Can you post any pictures? Most importantly, don't settle fast. Let them give you a rental car, and drag out the settlement process awhile, which will probably increase your settlement amount. Good luck, and remember, don't let anyone rush you into a settlement!
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:09 am

Geico tried to screw me a few years back as well. Get more.
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Wagoninabox

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:09 am

Do your homework by going through ebay "completed" sales on the wagons and print out several comparable to yours and fax it to your adjuster. Save the wagon and fix it!
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atlantadan



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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:45 am

You never accept the initial offer from the insurance co. Lawyer up, and get what the car was worth. They must replace the car with a comparable one (year, make, mileage, condition), or use a comparable car as a baseline for replacement value according to the marketplace. Go through eBay and look at completed listings. Search Craigslist. Look at Auto Trader. Get as close as you can to what you lost and then present that info to them and say "this is what I want, or we go to court". Insurance companies desperately want to say out of court, especially for a car that is worth less than $20k.

For everyone else, get the car appraised by an impartial, but reputable vehicle appraiser. Almost all cities have someone that deals in classics or rare vehicles. Once you have that appraisal, you can then get an insurance policy that will cover that amount ("stated value"). The appraisal is key - insurance companies will bounce the stated-value claim (even IF you have the policy) without it on anything but well-established classics.
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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:34 am

Sorry for your loss...sucks,Im with everybody else,fight'um.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:54 pm

I have been following values, and the insurance company can probably come up a little, but they are not far off on the value. Maybe $3K. They should give you a rental for about 3 weeks, until you find another RM or other B-body, because you need that type of car to fit your lifestyle. The TBI cars are a lot cheaper than the LT1 cars...about 1/2- 1/3 of the value. If yours was in excellent condition, check KBB.com, input the information, and it will give you a value for trade, retail, and "for sale by owner". You want the retail price, because "you are going to have to buy retail". Getting a comparable car may be a little more difficult. One of the prettiest and hardest to find is a tan OCC with tan cladding (put marker cones around it if you park it anywhere). I would not get a lawyer, the lawyer will take more than what extra he gets for you, if he even gets more than what they offered. Some of them roll over, and then bill you. You should be able to negotiate a higher amount than the net after a lawyer fee. If you buy the car back, you should only pay about $300 for it. That is what the scrap yards are paying. You could part it out, or move all the nice stuff to another car, and have the shell to sell to a scrap yard.
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silverfox103
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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:55 pm

Sorry to hear about the wagon, she was a beauty

I remember seeing a similar posting on the Buick site.  The owner didn't take their initial offer and pushed back.

I found it:  http://buickforums.com/forums/threads/40000-94-RMS-Opinions-On-Value

I friend of mine in CO, also had a similar problem.  He fought with the insurance co.  He ended up getting $3800 plus he kept the car, for which he was happy.  He also got hit in the rear quarter.  I found him the parts, including a rear quarter.  He got it fixed as good as new.

Can yours be fixed?

Tom

Tom
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stationedwagon

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:40 pm

I wouldn't accept their offer. If your willing to put some time into it I think you will be pleased with your efforts. Atleast it worked for me.  In 2011 I purchased a one owner 1996 white Buick Roadmaster Wagon from a local used car lot. The car had been placed there by its original owner for them to sell. It was a very nice garage kept never winter driven 86,000 mile wagon. I was very pleased to have found it. The next two winters I stored the car. Fast forward to 11-21-13. A friend of mine asked me to drive him to Indianapolis and I decided to take the wagon. It had not snowed yet so I was okay with driving the wagon. Well, I was hit when another driver ran a red light. The car was hit on the side as the other driver entered. I only had PL PD insurance so I was at the mercy of the other drivers insurance. The next day they sent someone out to my home. The following day they called to tell me my car was totaled and they were going to pay me $3200.00. I asked how much the repair was and they said $9100.00. Well, I wasn't going to accept $3200.00. My car was rustfree near mint condition before the accident. Eight months later we settled on $7000.00. I provided them with completed listings from ebay. Hemmings ads, and proof where I went to a Auction in Auburn Indiana and watched a 1995 Buick Roadmaster Wagon sell for $8250 plus a 10% buyers fee with 103k mi. They deducted $600.00 for salvage and allowed my to keep my car. I bought a parts wagon and a friend of mine who has a body shop fixed the car and I was back on the road! The car is ready to turn 100k, had 93K at the time of the accident. I would holdout for what your car is worth if you are able to do so. I turned down about four FINAL offers before I found one I could live with!


Last edited by stationedwagon on Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wagoninabox

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:25 pm

Interesting about value. I firmly believe these cars are worth more than NADA, but that is still the benchmark used by businesses and in legal matters.

There was an episode of Judge Judy (about 3 years ago now) where a mans Roadmaster Estate Wagon was in an accident and was offered a settlement by the insurance company but instead, sued the folks that damaged his car. He argued that the Wagon was special, rare, fully loaded and couldn't be fixed for what the insurance was offering and wanted his "classic" fix back to its glory.

Judge Judy dressed the guy down and used the NADA as the guide. regardless of rust, mods, showroom condition, etc.

We should always push for more value on these in accident cases, but know that eventually, rulings always seem to come back to NADA or something similar as a benchmark for value.

I think it will be easier for us when the 96 model year hits the 25-30 year old mark; there will be no denying their classic status then!
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theblurrrr

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:17 pm

Interestingly enough, NADA lists the price range for my car from $1650 to $5700; with an average of $3725--which makes the $2700 offered seem a bit cheap.
I'm going to hire a private appraiser.

More to come.
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AzDon

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:31 pm

If the "comparables" were acquired by the appraiser from "CCC Valuescope" they are most likely fraudulent.....This third-party "valuation service" places bogus ads for cars that don't exist (if you've ever been unable to make contact on an ad for a "killer deal", this may be why!) Insurance companies use them because they get cheap, usually fraudulent comparables without taking any responsibility for them
As others have stated, it's going to be their comparables versus yours---related to the pre-event condition of your car.....If they have cheap comparables, those cars should actually be for sale, local, and available to compare......
It's really cut-and-dried here as to fault and you cannot be required to settle for less than your car is worth unless you fail to prove your value.....Display that your willingness to do so is going to be tough for them to overcome and they will roll....
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theblurrrr

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:06 am

Here's some news--Exactly one month after the loss, GEICO sends me a check for the "undisputed" (their words) value of my car($2750) which I DON'T cash(of course), since I haven't agreed to anything.  The kicker is that a week later, I get a notice from the Dept. of Licensing saying that the insurance company(GEICO) has requested that my TITLE BE REVOKED AND MY REGISTRATION CANCELLED since the insurance company(GEICO) HAD REACHED A SETTLEMENT!  The link to my claim on their web site said the same thing!

Talk about ticked off! I immediately contacted them and told them the situation, and then filed a complaint with our insurance commissioner.
BTW, I can dispute the "settlement" with a 3rd party insurance company for up to 3 years.
I hired an appraiser and he set the value at $6300, specifying it as a "Special Interest" car.  That appraisal was sent to GEICO over 5 weeks ago and still no response from anybody.  
I just sent them some more "comparables" from eBay and a reminder that no settlement has been reached, no payment has been accepted and the claim is still "in dispute".  No "comparable" cars used to value my car have ever been identified; the cars can be fictitious.  I will remind them of these facts, each and every month, until my claim is properly and legally settled.
Since my car has been "totaled" in the eyes of the State, I cannot get it repaired without a "Salvage" title, thus destroying it's value.
I'm now preparing to sue GEICO for full value plus expenses incurred, since their actions have further devalued my car permanently.
I'm also going to contact the local TV station's consumer "Watchdog" and see if GEICO wants some free advertising about how they do business and treat their legitimate claimants.
I'M NOT GOING TO ROLL OVER!
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:07 am

i never trust any green lizard that talks,..especially with a bloody limey accent,.

Those wankers,...
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Wagoninabox

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:58 am

Call your states insurance commissioner. Filing is one thing but contacting them via phone will actually make things happen.
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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:19 am

Good luck,please keep posting your progress.
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Bert Slater

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:25 pm

You will be lucky if they do not file a certificate of destruction. Never surrender your pink. Make them cut you a check and back off the cloud on your title. These have frames under them, unlike most today and are fixable. Get an estimate from a body shop for labor and supplies only. Then go shopping for parts. Also I hope you are dealing with their insurance company. If not contact them and your insurance company, inform them you will be dealing with the other company direct. Quite often if you deal with your own company you eat a deductible even though it was not your fault. Adjusters get together and lowball the damages among each other. You lower yours I'll cut mine. Together they both save money and screw the customer.
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rh96ss



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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:25 pm

phantom 309 wrote:
i never trust any green lizard that talks,..especially with a bloody limey accent,.

Those wankers,...

Aren't you English? At least English descent? Smile
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:28 pm

rh96ss wrote:
phantom 309 wrote:
i never trust any green lizard that talks,..especially with a bloody limey accent,.

Those wankers,...

Aren't you English? At least English descent? Smile

Your point,.?
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Bert Slater

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:32 pm

comic relief, comment about Geico spokeslizard.
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AzDon

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:36 pm

Kind of goes without saying, but since you didn't, I'll assume that you send all correspondences to a specific person via "certified" (return receipt requested) and verify by phone after the receipt comes back....After photocopying the check, this is how you'd return it, as well, maybe even writing "unacceptably low offer" boldly across the back......
They REALLY jumped the gun with your DMV and, IMO, have created a new and separate liability by not making certain that the check had been cashed......In the end, they will insist on a "salvage" title in exchange for a "total loss" settlement, even if you keep the car ( devaluing it by half).
At the point that you settle on a price for your car (and cash the check) the liability on this other issue goes away, which should make them that much more anxious to settle.... In the mean time, go about proving damages against you and file a small claim (up to $5000 in some locales) or claim against any "recovery fund" your state might have.....The threat of possibly having to add $5k to the settlement should get you your full value (and then some!)
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AzDon

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:54 pm

The last time I was faced with this scenario, the insurance company required ME to get a salvage title in my name and present it at a designated bank in exchange for settlement funds.....
In the end, they will require a salvage title for a "total loss" settlement.....No court is ever going to require them to spend $10k fixing a $6500 car...... Because of their other stupidity, you might get $8500 and your "salvage title" car..... At that point, you should start over with a rust-free shell and put all the best stuff on the new, non-salvage-title car...... I just bought a reasonably solid copy (91 RMW) for $800 (rust-free, runs great, but cosmetically challenged)......
OR you can take the settlement money and buy a comparably nice one outright!
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pagroundhog



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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:27 pm

Lawyer up. The difference between their($2700) and repair cost($5000) is $2300 and if they lose they will end up paying their lawyer, your lawyer + the $5000 repair bill. They just may see it that way.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:35 pm

Why not settle it in the way the whole world loves to hear about in america,.

Take a big bore firearm,.......visit the insurance company headquarters,.

Then explain to the TV camera's how you;ve been forced into this position,.

Insurance company will settle very quickly,. because the general population will be giving you massive support!!!

All charges will be dismissed because of sympathy from everyone including the cops and the judge,.

Laughing
Then in the future insurance companies will want to settle quickly and fairly so as to avoid similar incidents,.
Then you will go down in the american history books as a hero!

Fighting for all the hardworking people with families that drive station wagons!!

Not to mention the undying gratitude from all forum members for increasing the value of all our wagons through such a media spotlight,.!!

Such admiration you would get!! cheers
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AzDon

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:15 pm

A lawyer is going to take one third of YOUR settlement, so unless he is able to get you 50% more, he may be a hard expense to justify...... Most won't even want a case without medical...

Having said that, you may want to do a free initial consult to see if the DMV issues created a situation in which everybody can expect to be paid..... It never hurts to explore the possibilities!
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:46 pm

I thought it was an Australian accent.
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s1l1sc



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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:57 pm

I would also file a case against them with the BBB - has helped speed up some issues I had in the past, as a big company such as Geico will care about Better Business Bureau ratings.
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theblurrrr

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:30 am

New developments-- Six months to the day, Geico acknowledged the appraisal from my appraiser and said they would seek out a 3rd party appraiser to arbitrate a settlement.  A couple weeks later, after a short conversation with the 3rd party appraiser, my appraiser said he had had a brief discussion with the other appraiser and they had settled on a $5500 value on the car!  A month later, I got the check.  So it pays to stick it out and push back!
Ironically, on Christmas morning a new Craig's List ad shows up for a one-owner 100K 1994 RMW!  That RMW is now in my driveway.

I'm BAAACK! Smile
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MG Davis

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:55 am

theblurrrr wrote:
New developments-- Six months to the day, Geico acknowledged the appraisal from my appraiser and said they would seek out a 3rd party appraiser to arbitrate a settlement.  A couple weeks later, after a short conversation with the 3rd party appraiser, my appraiser said he had had a brief discussion with the other appraiser and they had settled on a $5500 value on the car!  A month later, I got the check.  So it pays to stick it out and push back!
Ironically, on Christmas morning a new Craig's List ad shows up for a one-owner 100K 1994 RMW!  That RMW is now in my driveway.

I'm BAAACK! Smile

bounce woohoo!
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:05 am

theblurrrr wrote:
and they had settled on a $5500 value on the car!  A month later, I got the check.  
I'm BAAACK! Smile

No firearms involved?
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Dutch Pete

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:34 am

That's great news, congrats!! cheers
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dmg4

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:00 am

I love happy endings. Congratulations on staying the course.
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81X11

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:19 pm

Great read, and good for you for keeping after them. Looking forward to seeing pics of your new wagon. Good luck with it!

-Mike
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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:36 pm

dmg4 wrote:
I love happy endings.  Congratulations on staying the course.
Checkout the Asian Pear Day Spa,ask for Sue Lee... What a Face As for the successful negotiations and the newly acquired Roady,congrats!!!
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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:40 pm

Do share pics of your new Roady! Congrats! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:59 pm

Great news. I went through a similar situation with one of my '95s. Hit while sitting on the street. American Family Insurance sent me the lowball check and demanded my title. In my favor was the fact that I had bought the car for more $ earlier in the year and done upgrades. Contacted state department of insurance and my lawyer. Lawyer told me to fix it and give AFI the bill. Did that and AFI paid.
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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:03 pm

Congrats on the new Roady and getting a fair deal, the system can be brutal.
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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:05 am

And y'all wonder why your insurance so high. Lol. Now we know. The "big bad insurance company " is not out to screw you. You sound like a bunch of kids that did not get what you want for Christmas. You have officially swindled the Gecko out of what they believe they can't retain in court. Good job. It's not about value, it's about what you can possibly squeeze out of the insurance company. Good luck with an attorney. They are the primary reason this country is done.
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dmg4

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:06 am

Since when is $5500 (slightly UNDER fair market value...check recent sales) a swindle? This compensation was only obtained after a protracted battle by the client, who wanted nothing more than fair compensation. He would have accepted a replacement car or fair compensation at any point in the discussion. No one was "swindled" here. The customer was, in this specific case, treated very badly by a company that had a contractural obligation to offer fair compensation for loss.

Nobody seems to like lawyers...until they really need one.
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MG Davis

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:53 pm

Wagon Sleigher wrote:
And y'all wonder why your insurance so high. Lol. Now we know. The "big bad insurance company " is not out to screw you. You sound like a bunch of kids that did not get what you want for Christmas.  You have officially swindled the Gecko out of what they believe they can't retain in court. Good job. It's not about value, it's about what you can possibly squeeze out of the insurance company. Good luck with an attorney. They are the primary reason this country is done.

I think I speak for the rest of us when I say Piss Off. Yes they are very much out to screw you, because that improves their bottom line, especially when people roll over and take the screwing without a fight.  Dude made the insurance company compensate him for his actual loss, not what they wanted to pay, which was about half of his loss.  When you are at fault, you tend to get screwed by your own insurance.  When somebody else injures you, their insurance is obligated to make you whole, no deductible, no undercutting.  You, sir, are what is wrong with the country, placing corporate interest over people's interest.
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Deadmanonduty



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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:39 pm

Wagon Sleigher wrote:
And y'all wonder why your insurance so high. Lol. Now we know. The "big bad insurance company " is not out to screw you. You sound like a bunch of kids that did not get what you want for Christmas.  You have officially swindled the Gecko out of what they believe they can't retain in court. Good job. It's not about value, it's about what you can possibly squeeze out of the insurance company. Good luck with an attorney. They are the primary reason this country is done.

What Insurance Company do you own?

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Deadmanonduty



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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:39 pm

I put an actual cash value ins policy on my wagon for $10,000, so they have to pay when a claim is filed.
I did the same on my 06.5 Duramax because it has 20,000 miles on it and is realistically worth $30-$35K and the book value is probably $15-20K. I'm not eating that if they get wrecked, they can pay up!

Its a great way to insure cars that are "not ordinary".
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Wagon Sleigher

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PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:42 pm

Ha ha. I believe in what is fair and reasonable. I understand that what my sweet longroof is worth to me is not the ACV. I also agree with deadmanonduty. By purchasing a stated value policy, you are paying for the risk you are expecting your insurance company take.
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Bert Slater

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Posts : 238
Join date : 2015-03-23
Location : Melrose Florida

PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:04 pm

Sleigher the reason this country is "done" is because in America big business is allowed to "do" us over and over while a major portion of our population due to their ignorance allows it to happen. Blaming the victim for getting what they are entitled to (and PAID FOR) is just plain wrong. 
I do not watch Faux Neus so getting a double helping on a social media I look to for pleasure is not appreciated. Having other people share what we all enjoy in common is why most of us are here. BTW many of us are older than you and have combined life experiences you could never imagine. Even if I knew you better I would never try to educate you about how you are personally responsible for America's downfall even though you most probably are.
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Wagon Sleigher

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Join date : 2012-04-18
Age : 42
Location : Macon, GA

PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:24 pm

Now, that, felt like getting carded for beer. Thank you. Keep an open mind. You may be surprised.
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Bert Slater

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Posts : 238
Join date : 2015-03-23
Location : Melrose Florida

PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:22 am

Sonny my mind is always open to new ideas and experiences. It is when someone takes the tone you have thay my mind is made up. Possibly an apology mighy have worked. Telling me what to do did not. On that day monkeys will fly out of your butt.
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Wagon Sleigher

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Posts : 11
Join date : 2012-04-18
Age : 42
Location : Macon, GA

PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:04 am

It's all good Poppa. We obviously see things very differently and I'm okay with that.
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Sprocket

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Posts : 5286
Join date : 2008-11-04
Location : Palm Beach County

PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:32 am

You did well. My Mom's 10-11K 1 of 500 Jag got totaled and their initial offer was 2.5K. After fighting for a year, my Mom gave in at 5K. It was a crime. They would not recognize the limited production or the actual physical state of the car (mint). Unfortunately, she was taken to the hospital and the car towed to a yard, then in order to retrieve her personal belongings, signed what she thought was a liability waiver to access the vehicle, but then it was removed by the ins co to another yard and we never saw it again...

ALWAYS have it towed back to your house is what I've learned from that, she got royally screwed all around.

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Bert Slater

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Posts : 238
Join date : 2015-03-23
Location : Melrose Florida

PostSubject: Re: A sad day....   Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:36 am

AAA offers 200 mile towing coverage, well worth it.
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