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 Door panel dilemma

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lamune

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PostSubject: Door panel dilemma   Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:32 pm

My son was getting out of the car and leaned against the door panel. It broke in half and and both tumbled to the ground. He thought it was hilarious. Me, not so much. But I can't blame him. It was obviously only held together with masking tape! What a Face

I guess it's time to put this back together. I have the "plastic weld" epoxy and some fiberglass matting. I think that may do the trick. Any input here will be taken and appreciated!



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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:05 pm

You can use MEK substitute to glue it back together like a model. You need to reinforce the seam on the back side with some scrap plastic extending about 1/2 inch on each side. You can also melt some scrap plastic in the MEK substitute, and "paint" it over the seam on the back side to reinforce it. Do not touch the front with MEK substitute on you hands, or you will leave your prints permanently on the surface.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:27 pm

Fred, the MEK is like water. What's the proper technique to apply it without making a mess, dripping it onto the front side, etc?
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:19 pm

Place the two parts in their proper positions, tightly together, and secure them firmly in that position. Tape can be used to hold parts in place. I even use the tape as a "bowstring" to put pressure on the parts (use your imagination). You can do 3-4 inches at a time with tape inbetween the areas you are working on. Use a 1/2 inch paint brush, and brush the MEK substitute on the back side of the panel. Allow it to set up overnight, or until the joint is solid. The MEK substitute will seep into the seam, and may even produce a couple of tiny bubbles on the front side. Do not touch the bubbles, they will go away when the MEK substitute evaporates. Reinforcing the joints: use the same brush to apply MEK substitute to the reinforcement piece, and to the back of the panel for about 1/2 inch on each side of the repaired area. Make sure both surfaces are wet, and place the reinforcement piece over the joint, and press to insure they bond. You can also put a little MEK substitute around the edges, in case it was a little dry. Allow to dry overnight. If you reinforce all of the areas that are broken, the panel should be at least as strong, in those areas, as it was when it was new.

As a thought for the future, only use the strap to close the doors, the arm rest and lower panel are fragile. The 94-96 RMs do not have a support for the armrest. Put all of the tree fasteners in the door.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:12 pm

Thanks Fred! Very Happy

I will give it a go after I get the refrigerator back together
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Wagoninabox

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:26 pm

So you MEK the joint, leave overnight and then do the reinforcement MEK repair, correct? As opposed to doing all at once?
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:10 pm

That is what I recommend. If you want to work on it sooner, you can chance it. The joint will be pretty solid after about an hour. Treat it like a model car kit.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:09 pm

Fred, the door panel material takes to styrene cement very well. I've been gluing it back together and it's really "coming together". I got some 1/16th sheet to use for reinforcing. I'll throw a couple of pics here to see what it looks like.

I'm using clear silicone RTV to glue the trim back on, I figure that stuff sticks to just about everything and is flexible enough for the task. I'll probably use the same to glue the padding back on unless someone has a better suggestion.

While trying to troubleshoot the broken window, I managed to get it to come down a bit, but it won't go back up. I have a new regulator on the way, but in the meantime is there some way to manually get the window to close?



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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:00 pm

Silicone does not stick to the plastic very well. The woodgrain trim is made from styrene as well. You can add pieces to the "pins", and melt them over like the original ones. The rest of the trim is not styrene, and needs to be heat welded.

You might want to double the 1/16 inch reinforcement.

The glue that holds the insulation on the door is hot glue. It does not hold with much strength, but will hold the light weight insulation.

Try giving the motor a whack. The brushes are probably worn out.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:53 pm

Cool. I applied percussive maintenance to the motor, and nothing exciting. It makes a very faint clicking noise, but won't budge in either direction.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:03 pm

Did you try the second step of hitting it with a bigger hammer?
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:12 pm

Yep. Though probably not big enough for Nick. Smile
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:38 pm

lamune wrote:
Yep. Though probably not big enough for Nick. Smile

Why is it you think my mechanical skills are reduced to the operation of a big hammer,.?


two people,.
one person with the door open to put one hand on the outside of the glass and one hand on the inside and push the glass upwards when the switch is operated,.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:48 pm

Nick, I just don't think my hammer would be approved, compared to your BFH Smile

I tried that technique. It doesn't want to budge.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:45 pm

lamune wrote:
Nick, I just don't think my hammer would be approved, compared to your BFH Smile

I tried that technique. It doesn't want to budge.

Nothing ever works for you,..

at least you're consistent.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:05 pm

phantom 309 wrote:


Nothing ever works for you,..

at least you're consistent.

Yup. All the simple things on this car don't work, and the usually impossible things like getting exhaust manifold bolts off go easy! Drives me nuts.

Looks like the new regulator will arrive today, so I can hopefully get the window back together before the Saturday trip.

The FSM says it's held in by 4 rivets. Those things don't look like rivets to me, they appear threaded on from the other side with weird split sheet metal things.

In any case, I'm really curious to get that regulator out and see what's up with it. The sliders were broken twice (pieces still in the rails) so it does seem to imply some other problem aside from the usual slider breakage.

And yes I have replacement rollers on hand. Very Happy
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:42 pm

lamune wrote:

Looks like the new regulator will arrive today, so I can hopefully get the window back together before the Saturday trip.

The FSM says it's held in by 4 rivets. Those things don't look like rivets to me, they appear threaded on from the other side with weird split sheet metal things.

In any case, I'm really curious to get that regulator out and see what's up with it. The sliders were broken twice (pieces still in the rails) so it does seem to imply some other problem aside from the usual slider breakage.

And yes I have replacement rollers on hand. Very Happy

Better cancel the trip,..

You'll need another door soon,..
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:58 am

Well, not quite that bad Nick, but pretty bad!

The new window regulators are different somehow. The bolt-on slider bracket is longer, the gear is different. Maybe the 91-93 windows are different? Mounting pattern is the same, but swapping like for like (left for left, in this case) results in the window rails at the bottom of the door. Neutral

(Edit: guy says they came out of a 95 Roadmaster commercial chassis converted to a hearse.)

Anyway, for those playing along at home, I figured out what happened to the window regulator (sort of). The rear bushing on the motor housing appears to have been installed improperly. It's at an angle, and the rotor ground its way through the magnets until it stopped. I tried swapping the rotor and housing, and that didn't help as there appears to be something messed up in the gearbox as well.

It looks like the gearbox/motor is held on by three rivets. If I can figure out how to lock the spring so it doesn't sproing, I could drill the rivets out and swap the motor/gearbox assemblies from the backwards regulator. At least in theory that appears possible.

I found if you want to lock a window in the closed position, it's easy. Just remove the motor, and since there's no worm gear to lock the gearbox in position the spring tension will simply hold the window closed. You need to be careful though since the spring tension will release suddenly when you pull the motor out.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:49 pm

Question my good fellows - what sort of sticky stuff is used to hold the vapor barrier on? It's no longer sticky and I can tell you from what the previous owner(s) left behind that neither duct tape nor masking tape is suitable either. I was thinking of some kind of mastic tape perhaps?

I'm working on getting the window motor replaced. It's not that hard, and once I find the proper size rivets I should be able to share some notes beyond the 3 sentences in the FSM regarding replacing the window motor assembly.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:17 pm

Use 1/4 inch bolts about 1/2 inch long for the regulator. I also used nylock nuts. insert the bolt from the back, and put the nut on from the front. It is a lot easier than putting the bolt through from the front, and fishing around blind to find the bolt with the nut. BTDTHTTS.

To rivet them back on, you need 1/4 inch rivets, and a heavy duty double lever rivet popper. Your regular tool will not have enough leverage to pull the pin, and it does not have the proper fitting for the center pin.

I just did some work on an RMW I purchased, and used spray on adhesive. Give it a few minutes to set, and push the vapor barrier on. FWIW, most people do not put the vapor barrier back on.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:10 pm

thanks Fred. I tried several different types of screws, and none have a head with a low enough profile to clear the arm without getting stuck. I have the proper size rivets coming and I have an air riveter, hopefully that'll get this job done.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:25 am

This sounds like you are putting a new motor on the regulator. In that case the motor should have come with a special thin head nut to clear the arm.

The air riveter should work.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:03 pm

Yep, replacing the motor assembly. It's a GM one, it didn't come with any fasteners.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:39 pm

Fred, do you have any window regulators in your stash of stuff? I might need one.

After getting the proper rivets and putting things back together, the regulator still doesn't work right.

The underlying issue seems to be excessive play in the bearing on the arm mechanism. The gears don't mesh completely, so instead of interleaving they jam.

I'm not sure if this is repairable.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:35 am

I have an assortment, which one is it?
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Door panel dilemma   Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:44 pm

Driver's side, rear
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