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 Removing Engine Emissions Junk

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Cadet57

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PostSubject: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Mon May 31, 2010 3:39 pm

Thankfully I live in a state where my car does not get an emissions test because of is age. This winter I plan to do a tear down and rebuild of my 5.7, and I want to pull all the un needed crap out. Is is possible to remove the emissions crap from the engine. If so how?

Thanks
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WagonLover

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:35 am

is this a TBI?..
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Cadet57

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:30 am

Yeah. Forgot to add that. Its an LO5 tbi.
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94Woody



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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:00 pm

I would remove the AIR pump but not any of the other stuff. It doesn't really do anything from a performance standpoint. The AIR pump doesn't either but it does clean the engine bay some to remove all that crap. The rest of it isn't really in the way or anything like that so I wouldn't bother.

NO reason to be scared of a few emissions items on a car Wink
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Cadet57

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:39 pm

94Woody wrote:
I would remove the AIR pump but not any of the other stuff. It doesn't really do anything from a performance standpoint. The AIR pump doesn't either but it does clean the engine bay some to remove all that crap. The rest of it isn't really in the way or anything like that so I wouldn't bother.

NO reason to be scared of a few emissions items on a car Wink

I know it doesn't really help performance but I do want to clean up the engine bay and it also helps that I live in a state that doesnt put my wagon thru an emissions test. Not only that, im getting my parts together for a rebuild and I want to make the AIR pump and that stuff one less thing I have to deal with when I pull it.

I found a guide on removing it from TBI motors and it says I need a longer belt to route around the pump or get a pump delete pulley. Also will removing it cause any codes?
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94Woody



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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:05 pm

Yup, removing it from the TBI engine is simple, you just use a longer belt and toss the pump and stuff out. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] should have the info you need for belt size and routing. It should not cause any codes or check engine lights.


Last edited by 94Woody on Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cadet57

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:10 pm

94Woody wrote:
Yup, removing it from the TBI engine is simple, you just use a longer belt and toss the pump and stuff out. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] should have the info you need for belt size and routing. It should not cause any codes or check engine lights.

Yeah, thats where I got the how to guide. Just wanted to make sure it was the same for the 5.7
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94Woody



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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:51 pm

Yeah, both the 5.0 and the 5.7 have the same belt setups.
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:53 pm

First off, the link is wrong. It's [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

search for A.I.R Delete. Probably need to join to use the search function.

It's not a question of just removing it PHYSICALLY. It also needs to be programmed out of your computer. so it's not still looking for the signals

You'll be using a 95" belt.

Here's the new route, given a serpentine belt system.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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94Woody



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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:34 am

Had a 92 Trans Am with a TPI 360 in it. No air pump, no tuning it out, never caused a problem, never caused a check engine light.

Results of course may vary.

I fixed my Typo even though I believe he still went to the correct site.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:49 am

He said he has an LO5 so no need to program anything. I have the instructions I used to do the removal.

"Its very simple really, the whole trick lies in the belt routing. The stock setup in a clockwise manner: Tensioner, over the alternator, down to the power steering pump, under the crank, under and over the water pump, back to the ac compressor. The problem in just removing the pump with this belt routing is that the tensioner will interfere with the belt coming off of the water pump to the AC compressor.

To remedy the situation a different belt routing is necessary. Clockwise instead of having the belt coming off of the power steering pump going to the bottom of the crank, have it come up over the top of the water pump, back under the water pump then around the crank and off the bottom of the crank to the AC compressor. All of your accessories will turn as they did, and you will be able to remove the pollution pump.

You will however need a longer belt, I used Dayco 968K6 belt. It is basically a 96.8" 6 rib belt. All parts stores stock just about every length of belt in every width. They should be able to find it using these numbers. If you have an under drive pulley you will need Dayco pn# 935K6 which is actually shorter than the stock belt by one inch."

I cut the tubing as close to the exhaust manifold as possible with a bolt cutter (had to bend a couple back and forth to break). The fittings came out easily with a socket (I believe it was a 9/16"). The threads are 1/4 inch black/iron pipe, and the plugs can be purchased at almost any hardware store (Lowes and Home Depot did not have them). They have a square head, but a 7/16" socket will drive them. I did have to use a box end wrench on the front and rear fittings to break them loose, and remove them, because of clearance issues. It was a lot easier than I expected.


Last edited by Fred Kiehl on Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:18 am

Fred Kiehl wrote:
He said he has an LO5 so on need to program anything. I have the instructions I used to do the removal..

An L05 is in fact a Fuel Injected, not carburatored engine. It has an ECM. The A.I.R.Pump Is controlled by the ECM. It Is injecting air, which is part of the ECM's chip calibrations.

Just disabling it PHYSICALLY is not he best thing to do as the ECM will still try to incorporate the A.I.R. portion of the calibrations as IT STILL THINKS IT"' THERE! . Do your research and you'll find it wise to get it changed in your calibration. Will it run without the chip being reburned... YES, but it's still the proper way to make the change..


You can either do it halfassed or the right way. you make the call.
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94Woody



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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:16 pm

LOL.

Some people take this shit a little too seriously. I doubt his engine will grenade itself to f**king pieces because he doesn't tune out the air pump.

The only thing the system does anyways is help burn excess fuel in the exhaust when the engine is COLD to help heat the cats more quickly. I really don't see (though I could be wrong) how that will really effect anything other than tail pipe emissions. On a TBI B Body it only has piping to the right bank anyhow, lol.

Thousands of B body owners have removed the useless ass setup from LT1 cars without tuning and nothing horrible has happened.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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iowaSSfan



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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:46 pm

wanting to finally install my headers on my 91 OCC 305 TBI. Is the procedure for deleting the air pump same on my 305 as the 350? Same belt routing? Thanks.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:06 pm

The 305 and 350 are exactly the same. Same belt routing change.
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kameron m



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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:02 pm

air pumps make really good superchargers for go karts. Very Happy
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AzDon

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:25 pm

I did Lake Effect's routing on the serp drive in my 68 burb, but I felt that the long belt run off the bottom of the crank to an a/c compressor, which surges, would be an invitation to throwing belts, so I made a mount for and idler pulley halfway between....... I guess that was unnecessary?
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:33 am

Never thrown a belt yet in nine years running it as shown. It would be of interest to see what you came up with for an idler though. Post pics if you can.

On the issue of deprogramming the A.I.R., since I have the ability to do so with the set up I'm running, it's been done. Whether someone else thinks it is important or not to do on their own vehicle is up to them.

I pass along to you the sayings of a wise man from the dominions of Great White North, as has said to me many times. "You are going to do what you want anyway"
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:40 am

If anyone is curious why the water pump pulley goes in the counter-clockwise when "normal" operation on small block Chevy, it's because on a serpentine system the pump is designed to work counterclockwise.

The lesson is don't go to a junk work or store, grab a conventional pump and expect it to work.It won't.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:26 am

I an running the AIR delete with the long run between the crank and compressor on my 92 OCC, and it has been fine for about 5 years. I believe there is a delete pulley available, but have not seen one. A properly aligned idler pulley in place of the AIR pump would allow you to keep the original belt routing.

I have the brackets from an S10 with the V6 and old style compressor on my 454, and they would only require spacing to the brackets or engine pulleys to align them on the LO3/5. I forget if the brackets stick out or the engine pulleys stick out. If you must adjust the engine pulleys, you would only need to move the crank and WP pulleys. the rest are on the brackets. If it is the brackets, you must put spacers under the bolts that hold the brackets. It has an idler pulley, but also requires the tensioner for the V6. It would make a clean/factory installation without the mount for the AIR pump. I have considered doing it to my OCC.

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AzDon

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:55 pm

lakeffect wrote:
Never thrown a belt yet in nine years running it as shown. It would be of interest to see what you came up with for an idler though. Post pics if you can.

I'll take some pics when I get a chance..... made a bracket to go across between the AIR pump bolts with a shaft mounted on it holding an idler wheel with the belt running inside of it (pulley contacts the back of the belt)

For the 69 chevy van I'm putting together, I don't need a power steering pump either, so I may need two idlers (or maybe not)
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:30 pm

Just to be clear- the computer cannot monitor the performance of the AIR pump in these cars (TBI or EFI). All it does it switch it on and off. It can theoretically determine if the relay's coil is functional, but that's about it.

It's pretty easy to validate this. Just pull the AIR pump relay out and see what happens. If you get no "check engine soon" light, you're good to go. Rip it out.
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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:57 pm

lamune wrote:
Just to be clear- the computer cannot monitor the performance of the AIR pump in these cars (TBI or EFI). All it does it switch it on and off. It can theoretically determine if the relay's coil is functional, but that's about it.

It's pretty easy to validate this. Just pull the AIR pump relay out and see what happens. If you get no "check engine soon" light, you're good to go. Rip it out.

In theory....... Wouldn't the computer notice "no changes" at the oxygen sensor when switching the AIR relay on and off?.... If it only (in theory) needs to see a relay load, you could keep the relay plugged in and ditch the rest of the stuff..... If you guys have removed the system without consequences, that's all the info I need.....
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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:44 pm

Ran without mine for 5 years. No problems. No CEL.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:32 pm

AzDon wrote:

In theory....... Wouldn't the computer notice "no changes" at the oxygen sensor when switching the AIR relay on and off?.... If it only (in theory) needs to see a relay load, you could keep the relay plugged in and ditch the rest of the stuff..... If you guys have removed the system without consequences, that's all the info I need.....

I'm not sure how the TBI ECM turns the pump on and off. Maybe it runs all the time?

On the SFI motor the pump is electric and only runs when the car is cold, when the oxygen sensors aren't used anyway. The PCM has no idea if the pump is functional, connected, or even present.
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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:44 pm

The TBI cars have a vacuum-operated valve that is operated by electric solenoid..... not sure when the system runs..... The EGR works the same way and I found that the diaphragm is bad, but it's never thrown a code....
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:50 pm

Ok, I would assume it only works when the engine is cold and in open loop mode in the TBI cars with the mechanical pump.

Forcing relatively unmetered extra air into the exhaust stream seems like it would interfere with accurate oxygen sensor readings. It wouldn't be logical in these relatively simple engine management systems to introduce this extra air outside the warmup phase.
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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:57 pm

The AIR system on an LO3/5 pumps air into the passenger side exhaust manifold. The O2 sensor is on the driver side manifold. The O2 sensor never sees the extra air. The pump runs all of the time via the belt. The vacuum operated solenoid allows the air into the exhaust when the car is idling via a manifold and 4 lines, one at each passenger side exhaust port. To remove the system, you must plug the holes when you remove the lines. The fittings are usually miserable to remove. I cut the tubing short, and used a long socket to remove them. A plumbing plug will fill the hole.

The LT1 pump is electric, and only runs on demand from the computer.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Removing Engine Emissions Junk   Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:28 pm

Thanks Fred Smile
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