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 Roller rockers and new valve springs

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lamune

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PostSubject: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:09 pm

I found a set of old-stock Crane gold rockers (10758-16). They're 1.6 ratio. I'm not clear on if I'm required to use a heavier valve spring or not with these, as with everything I seem to discover mixed results online. Very Happy
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:33 pm

your stock valvesprings are floating with your stock rockers. It will be worse with the cranes. So YES you SHOULD change the springs if you want to benefit from the higher ratio. If your budget is very low, I would just change the springs.

Are you getting a good deal on the rockers ? I have a set of gently used comp pro-magnum SA 1.6 ratio (3/8" stud) and crane iron head valvespring kit I could sell.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:55 pm

jasonlachapelle wrote:
your stock valvesprings are floating with your stock rockers.  It will be worse with the cranes.  So YES you SHOULD change the springs if you want to benefit from the higher ratio.  If your budget is very low, I would just change the springs.

Are you getting a good deal on the rockers ?  I have a set of gently used comp pro-magnum SA 1.6 ratio (3/8" stud) and crane iron head valvespring kit I could sell.

I got a good deal I think, about half what Jegs wants for a set.

Ok, I think I understand, I need springs that are slightly taller since the ratio is higher. Are your springs the right height? Smile
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:34 pm

No, you don't understand. You need springs that are the correct installed hight and provide adequate control. Your stock springs were barely adequate to control the valve when new. They are now old and worn out.

Yes, I am sure my springs are correct for this application, but I'm not interested in selling them separately for now. P/N was crane 10309-1.

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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:02 pm

Set price?
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:11 pm

jasonlachapelle wrote:
No, you don't understand. You need springs that are the correct installed hight and provide adequate control.  Your stock springs were barely adequate to control the valve when new.  They are now old and worn out.

Yes, I am sure my springs are correct for this application, but I'm not interested in selling them separately for now.  P/N was crane 10309-1.


Thanks Jason, I was unclear what you meant by 'float'.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:19 pm

Andebe wrote:
Set price?

$375 shipped. PN comp 1618-16 (ultra pro-magnum) and crane 10309-1.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:05 am

lamune wrote:
I found a set of old-stock Crane gold rockers (10758-16). They're 1.6 ratio. I'm not clear on if I'm required to use a heavier valve spring or not with these, as with everything I seem to discover mixed results online. Very Happy

while i can appreciate your interest at adding perfomance 1.6 rollers to your bone stock engine,.

It's a bit of a step in the wrong direction INMHO,. as jason has said,. a better investment for performance gain on bone stock engine would be new valvesprings,.

I personally wouldn't even worry about them unless you plan on running the motor over 5500rpm,.

money would be better spent ona tune for your ecm,.

but,. you do what you want,. you're gonna anyway right?
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silverfox103
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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:47 pm

phantom 309 wrote:

but,. you do what you want,. you're gonna anyway right?

I've heard that before someplace.....Oh you said it to me!

Tom
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:03 pm

silverfox103 wrote:


I've heard that before someplace.....Oh you said it to me!

Tom

Very Happy

Well, he's right, isn't he?

In this case I totally understand that going to roller rockers offers very little benefit for my use other than slightly lower friction over the stamped ones. It's just something I always thought was cool and always wanted to do.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:55 pm

you'll squeeze around 10hp out of the engine with the 1.6 ratio roller rockers, maybe more if your valvesprings are really tired.

Get a tune if you haven't already! definitely good bang for the buck.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:53 am

I picked up a spare PCM so I can send it out for a tune one of these days.

The rockers arrived today, and the look fine. The sticker on the side of the package says that LT1 needs spring 10309-1 Smile

In a few weeks I'll save up and pick up a set of those and then tackle the stem seals, springs, and rockers. I may pick up a set of pushrods to have on-hand in case I find any that are messed up, though I'm not sure if they are prone to wear or bending under normal circumstances (I'd guess no on that!)

The goal of all this isn't more power, although that's always welcome. I'm curious to see if the engine runs better or not with the new springs and if the oil fouling goes away with the stem seals.

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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:23 am

buying a cam and new chain would have been a better idea,.

but,.. why not do that now?

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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:25 am

Even with 164k on the clock?
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:39 am

I did change the chain, but not the cam.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:14 am

lamune wrote:
I did change the chain, but not the cam.

Ok,.

it'll be waaay faster now,. What a Face
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:18 am

Yeah I figure that timing chain should be good for at least +25, maybe 30 HP. Smile
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Wed May 25, 2016 1:22 am

Oh, hey, I almost forgot I need a LT4 knock module. So far my searching comes up with none in stock. Anyone have a lead on one?
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:05 am

Well, since I've been utterly incapable of finding a LT4 knock module I'm kind of stuck with the stock rockers for now.

However the car is laid up with two missing gears in the tranny, so I may as well change the valve springs and oil seals while I have time.

Is there any problem using the Crane springs with the stock rockers?

The Crane springs are noticeably beefier than what's on there now. I'm really curious to see what that does to how the motor runs.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:19 am

You may need taller valve covers with the roller rockers. Everything I have ever done to my car requires that I do at least one other thing, and spend at least $50 to make it work.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:52 am

you can do the springs with stock rockers, but you should install the cranes
you can use the stock valve covers with the crane rockers
you don't "need" an LT4 KM. As discussed, get a tune and tell the tuner to tune out the false knock.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:20 am

Ok, thanks guys. I'll drop the rockers in too and see what happens. I have a spare PCM I can send out for tuning (or perhaps de-tuning in this case)
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:47 am

you will not notice any difference other than the fact the motor will like to rev a little easier over 5500,.
which most folks with stock motors don't do very often,.
but psychologically it will feel much faster i,m sure,..
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:43 pm

I don't want it to go faster. I think it goes fast enough. It's all about the experience. Also it looks cool, maybe it's time for some transparent valve covers. Smile
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:40 am

Progress! Very Happy

Got half of them installed. I'll do the adjustment tomorrow.

I also discovered cylinder #7 leaks air into the crankcase like crazy. That's also the one with the lowest compression and worst fouling. Nothing a rebuild won't fix, I suppose.

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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:33 am

Isnt air in the crankcase a killer? Read recently,Nick said thats a sure sign of a bad ring/rings? Your luck continues my wagon friend...
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:07 pm

Andebe wrote:
Isnt air in the crankcase a killer? Read recently,Nick said thats a sure sign of a bad ring/rings? Your luck continues my wagon friend...

He was talking about blowby and pressure in the crankcase. I'm not seeing much of that, the dynamic vs. static pressures are somewhat different things when comparing a running motor to pressurizing a cylinder with shop air.

However it's not a good sign.
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:52 pm

silverfox103 wrote:
phantom 309 wrote:

but,. you do what you want,. you're gonna anyway right?

I've heard that before someplace.....Oh you said it to me!

Tom


.... and me upon several occasions... and he's right.
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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:47 pm

Ok, half way done. Need some more stem seals and I can do the other side.

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lamune

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PostSubject: Re: Roller rockers and new valve springs   Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:11 am

I had time this weekend to finish the roller rocker install, since the transmission won't be shipping until later this week.

It seems a little smoother at idle, probably more due to the valve lash being adjusted for the first time since 1995 than anything else. It runs the same, though it has this sound to it now that's pretty interesting. It sort of sounds a bit like a bank of sewing machines.

I discovered that #7 and #8 bleed a lot of air into the crankcase. #1 and #2 are less leaky. The 4 center cylinders seem to hold pressure very well. I'm not sure if this wear pattern is typical or points to some problem... but I figure I'd mention it.
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