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Big Jack



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Location : Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

PostSubject: Rear Springs   Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:26 am

Hi Guys,
I'm overhauling the suspension on my 95 RMW.
Call me unenlightened, but I'm having a hard time finding out for certain what is the installed height of the rear springs.
Rock auto lists the following rear springs with corresponding installed spring heights:

Moog # / AC Delco # (application) - installed height:

5417 / 45H2044 {#88913714} (wagon) 8.5"
5245 / 45H2007 {#88913677} (sedan) 9.0"
5419 / 45H2022 {#88913692} (sedan, heavy duty) 9.0"
CC623 / 45H3012 {#88913773} (wagon, variable rate) 11.0"
CC621 / 45H3011 {#88913772} (sedan, variable rate) 12.8"

The dealer Order Guides from GM state a "checking height" of 11.9" for the sedan.

I doubt there is a 2.5" range of ride heights among wagons (or 4.3" among all B bodies)
I want the car at stock ride height. At stock ride height, what is the distance from spring seat on axle to spring seat on frame?

Thanks
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:22 pm

do you want firmer springs ? variable rate ? check out the moog chart. They calculate installed height from free height using load and rate.

If you want a stock height wagon with a firmer spring, use CC625. CC623 lifts it.

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_coil_springs.asp
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Big Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:46 pm

I do want stiffer springs, but not necessarily variable rate. (I'm putting 880 lb. springs in front & I don't want the car to plow)
I'm looking at the Moog chart, no 2 springs listed for the B-body have the same "installed height".

Even when recalculated with the free heights & rates Moog quotes, loaded heights for 5417 in the B-body wagon at 980 lbs. (1/2 of approx. sprung weight of B-Body wagon) is 9.9".
Loaded heights for 5245 & 5419 in the B-body sedan 740 lbs. (1/2 of approx. sprung weight of B-Body sedan) are 11.4" & 11.7", respectively.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:55 pm

better put some shocks with a LOT of rebound control with those springs or you will not be happy.  Koni adjustable set on full hard or a non-b-body bilstein.  I run 710 lb springs in the caprice with Koni adjustables set to full firm and it can get super shitty on quebec roads for a DD.  I've been to NS.  You're in the same boat.

you're going to need to run a non-b-body rear spring if you want stock height, firmer, linear rate.
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Big Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:15 pm

jasonlachapelle wrote:
better put some shocks with a LOT of rebound control with those springs or you will not be happy.  Koni adjustable set on full hard or a non-b-body bilstein.  I run 710 lb springs in the caprice with Koni adjustables set to full firm and it can get super shitty on quebec roads for a DD.  I've been to NS.  You're in the same boat.

you're going to need to run a non-b-body rear spring if you want stock height, firmer, linear rate.

Do you run the cc625 in the back?

What's its loaded height in your wagon?
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:46 pm

yes, but on my wagon in BC.  It's 1" shorter than the CC623 I have here.  Same ride as the 623 but stock height.

I can measure the cc623 for you if you want when it stops raining. Most people use ground to wheelwell on the wagon to give an idea of the ride height.
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RedandBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:27 am

The CC623 put my car up in the sky. As soon as I was done with towing duties, I took them out. They ride okay, but are huge. If I remember right it was like a 2" lift from stock.
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Big Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:42 pm

I ended up getting Moog 80860 (780 lbs./in.) for the front & Moog 6101 (389 lbs./in.) for the rear.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:58 pm

just out of curiosity, why didn't you go with the 7268 or 80098 ? Pretty much stock ride height. Yours might sit higher than stock on a wagon.

Let us know how you like it. Get some good shocks.
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Big Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:38 pm

11.9.6"t ote="jasonlachapelle"]just out of curiosity, why didn't you go with the 7268 or 80098 ?  Pretty much stock ride height.   Yours might sit higher than stock on a wagon.

Let us know how you like it.  Get some good shocks. [/quote]

Moog 80860 14.23" free height, 780 lbs. /in at 1840 lbs. load yields to a height of 11. 9", right about stock front height.

Moog 6101 13.12" free height, 398 lbs. /in at 980 lbs. load yields to a height of 10.6", pretty much spot on to what I measured with the rear springs on the car now.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:40 pm

ok. post pics and a ride report. Look forward to seeing what rear springs about twice as firm as stock will do. Once you compress that spring, it's going to rebound with a LOT of force.

My front fender arch centre is at 28" with the 7268 using a 26.7" diameter tire. My rear arch is at 21" running the CC623, using a 27" diameter tire. I'm thinking your front might be a bit high with that spring. I hope I'm wrong.
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Big Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:49 am

It's actually a bit raked (higher in the back). My tires are 28.7" OD.
I'm still waiting for my shocks, they're on back-order from Summit.
With the stiffer springs, Delrin control arm bushings & stock body bushings, ride wasn't much harsher than stock. I noticed a bigger change going to 40 series tires.
Car handles MUCH better now.







Last edited by Big Jack on Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:21 am; edited 4 times in total
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RedandBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:53 am

Ugh. Photobucket is garbage. Put your photos on imgur.com instead so they can be seen.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:53 am

Big Jack, Could you make the pics a bit smaller? They really distort the thread.
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Big Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:22 am

Fred Kiehl wrote:
Big Jack, Could you make the pics a bit smaller? They really distort the thread.

Did what I could, now the photos are all out of proportion, but you get the idea
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Brandt51

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:07 pm

You should get some clean looking lugs, that would make a huge difference.
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Big Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:14 pm

Brandt51 wrote:
You should get some clean looking lugs, that would make a huge difference.
Nothing stays clean for long when it's parked a 1/4 mile from the Atlantic ocean every night. It's pretty much an ultimatum: rusty or greasy
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Big Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:53 am

jasonlachapelle wrote:
ok.  post pics and a ride report.  Look forward to seeing what rear springs about twice as firm as stock will do.  Once you compress that spring, it's going to rebound with a LOT of force.

My front fender arch centre is at 28" with the 7268 using a 26.7" diameter tire.  My rear arch is at 21" running the CC623, using a 27" diameter tire.  I'm thinking your front might be a bit high with that spring.  I hope I'm wrong.

Due to delivery delays & time constraints, I upgraded suspension in 4 stages:
1. Firestone Indy 500 Firehawk 275/40-20's on 20"x 10"s all 4 corners.
2. ALL suspension pivot points replaced with delrin (spherical on trailing arms), Front & rear springs, front & rear swaybars.
3. Polyurethane body mounts.
4. Adjustable shocks.

Observations at stage:
1. Way better grip, harsher ride, but still bouncy.
2. Firmer ride, MUCH better cornering, no noticeable increase in harshness. Cool
3. Biggest increase in harshness over potholes, ect. Somewhat regrettable. I guess chassis is stiffer.
4. With fronts set to rebound damping level of 11 of 22 & rears set to level 15/22, car rides & handles pretty good. Mitigated some of the harshness. In hindsight, I should have dyno'd the shocks. Another good thing about these shocks is that with rear axle hanging, springs can be wiggled/turned on perches but won't come out.
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jayoldschool

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:03 pm

Let me know how you like those Indy 500s. I just ordered 255 35 20/295 30 20s.
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Big Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:18 pm

jayoldschool wrote:
Let me know how you like those Indy 500s.  I just ordered 255 35 20/295 30 20s.
Prior to the indys, I've only had marathon trailer tires & snow tires after that, so I think the indys are awesome.
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jayoldschool

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:27 pm

lol, yeah, they would definitely seem like upgrades.

My previous stickies have included BFG ZRs, Michelin Pilots, and Khumo MXs... I'm looking forward to giving the 500s a workout. Just installed a fresh set of Bilsteins today, and am in the middle of doing steering and ball joints.
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RedandBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:03 pm

^ On what, Mr. No B wagon?
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jayoldschool

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:20 pm

You know this car. Old pics, I need to get some new ones when the new wheels get here.



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RedandBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:13 pm

Ah right. I had forgotten you owned that, honestly. LOL
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jayoldschool

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:10 pm

I almost did, too... getting back to my roots.
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RedandBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Rear Springs   Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:11 pm

You almost Crovo'd.

Never go full Crovo.
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