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 WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation

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phantom 309

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PostSubject: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:07 am

This years wagonfest, another tent?
Prizes and plaques?
Or will it simply be a meet and greet for a few hours,, then shake hands and head off to the respective post fest get togethers?  A simpler venue not really needing any central intelligence agency co-ordination?

Is it really necessary to appoint an organiser? Do we all really need a tent for the 10 mins of speeches at the end? And the associated costs?

The date change certainly doesn’t dovetail with either geneva block party or waterloo main st show.

Wagonfest has 3-4 parts for me, early friday afternoon and supper at geneva block party, mebbe some microtel
lawn time, then wagonfest sat park meet, the sat supper in different spots for different groups followed by sat night microtel lawn time, then maybe sunday brekky and waterloo car show
The sat daytime park gathering is only part of it,. The rest of the time spent socialising never seems to involve the organisers at all,. Whether for religious convictions or adversion to activities involving beer.

If people showed up on the last weekend in july and met in the usual place in the park, do we really need  organising?  To be ‘organised on dates that are more convenient for the organisers rather than for the convenience of the participants?

I’ve put this forward before,. Show up, hang out, feed yourself, take care of your own mess. Shake hands, wave bye to those not attending the microtel get together ( which is both volunteers this year again)
Discuss please.

Oh, i would have put this in dave 1's goodbye thread, where mike offered to step up,.
Then dave 2 stepped and just took over, but that thread has disappeared,...why?
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dmg4

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:04 am

No worries. There was considerable back and forth, both in person in Geneva and at the Dover NH events, as well as a number of PMs between a few concerned forum members regarding how to host Wagonfest NY in 2018. Tom, Mike and I were the main chatterboxes. Mike was unaware of prior activity on my part, but once the right and left hand knew what they were doing, we achieved a consensus on 14 July for the date.

In answer to the question "do we need to appoint an organizer?", I'd say no, but I volunteered to help. Both Mike and Tom have also graciously offered their assistance. Nothing seemed to be happening with respect to a 2018 event. Now it's happening.

The plan (today... it's still under development) is to host a simplified event on the model of the Dover NH Wagonfest, with an emphasis on those items Nick and others like and wish to continue. More details will follow.

The date chosen was one of only two that worked for those trying to make the Wagonfest happen. There is never a perfect date, just ones that work better or worse for different people.

Some prior threads were deleted by the moderators as cleanup, as their titles and content would have likely caused confusion going forward.
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:54 am

Correct. Admin pulled the original thread, (not me) so that my original statement would no longer say that a Wagonfest would not be sponsored by me this year. Although that part is still true, there will be a Wagonfest. People can come and do as they like. If a group of people want to hang out someplace, that is up to them. I personally am not much of a socializer, and never have been. I don't hang out and drink. I am also simply too cheap to rent a hotel room when my own bed is a short drive away.

There was very little support from attendees last year for Watkins Glen, or any other activities. Even getting people to do things AT Wagonfest were a struggle.Seemed like it was either " been there, did that", or no interest.

Someone has stepped up to the plate. I am appreciative of that. I will make no further comment.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:04 am

dmg4 wrote:

In answer to the question "do we need to appoint an organizer?", I'd say no, but I volunteered to help.  Both Mike and Tom have also graciously offered their assistance.  Nothing seemed to be happening with respect to a 2018 event.  Now it's happening.

This the part that concerns me,. It was always going to happen, much like july 4 th always happens, why would anyone doubt this?  

Quote :
The plan (today... it's still under development) is to host a simplified event on the model of the Dover NH Wagonfest, with an emphasis on those items Nick and others like and wish to continue.
Again organising nothing, in fact removing a yearly event in geneva from the itinerary. Hanging out at the microtel needs no organising. So i reiterate dates are being changed to suit who?  

Quote :
The date chosen was one of only two that worked for those trying to make the Wagonfest happen.  There is never a perfect date, just ones that work better or worse for different people.
For the organisers that don’t need to organise.

Quote :
Some prior threads were deleted by the moderators as cleanup, as their titles and content would have likely caused confusion going forward.

Which has conveniently given the appearance that this is set in stone and validated by all, and somehow this event has been “rescued”.
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1993 Roady-man

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:16 am

Just a good ole group of guys hanging out on the last weekend in July, with nothing expected is all that's really needed.

The burden it put on one person or many, takes away from their pleasure of just enjoying it.
It's work for them and they are bound to feel unappreciated which isn't necessary.

Dave you did a great job stepping up when you did, and I too appreciate all you did.

And to Mike and Tom and all willing to help out I applaud you for it.

No matter which way it goes I'll probably show up again.
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Andebe

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:22 am

Amen to that...
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dmg4

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:52 am

IF there is a strong consensus that an opportunity to attend a nearby car show is an essential aspect of Wagonfest NY, then there is one nearby at Goose Watch Winery on the weekend of the 21st. That is the other weekend that was discussed.

If not, if I understand the concerns expressed, then the other aspects mentioned could be accommodated irrespective of the date.

While not essential in theory, in my experience (this is not my first rodeo), some degree of organization is generally better than none in such events. All the organizers are contemplating is reserving a block of rooms and renting a tent (cost is only a few bucks per participant). If it rains all weekend, the tent might be appreciated. If not, what have we lost?
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:45 pm

I seem to be unable to get my point across,. The geneva block party is NOT just another car show,. And in someway its a tradition. Offering another local show as a consolation prize is thoughtful of you,. And i’m sure people will appreciate the option.
As for rain the mobilty and covenience of an umbrella and a plastic poncho, would work for me personally
But then again i don’t have as delicate a disposition as some members.
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Date for Downtown Geneva car show has not yet been posted for 2018 by the organizer, the Geneva BID. Or at least not that i can find online. If anyone stops it, post their link It has been inconsistent varied from year to year from third or forth weekend.
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JaySS
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:52 pm


lakeffect wrote:
There was very little support from attendees last year for Watkins Glen, or any other activities. Even getting people to do things AT Wagonfest were a struggle.Seemed like it was either " been there, did that", or no interest.

Perhaps it is time to clear up some misconceptions about this. For some of us, WFNY is the most significant event of our year.

Beyond the weekend itself, it also involves some vacation time the week of in order to get everything ready both for the event, and to have things on the home front organized to permit actually getting away. By having the Friday block party and the Seneca Falls street show available, it helps justify the time and expense to get there.

As we traditionally not only attend, but enter some cars in the Geneva show on Friday, and the Watkins Glen activities conflict with the window available to get our cars cleaned up, registered and moved into place, we aren't going to be there. Regardless if driving around the racetrack is or isn't our cup of tea, not participating is simply a case of conflicting schedules and has nothing to do with a perceived attitude.

Being as there has been a substantial amount of effort to actually get to Waterloo, and everything else that it involves, we usually just want to kick back and enjoy the weekend, so we may elect not to join a cruise around the area, not attend the same dinner event, or not jump out of our chairs to go rev our engines.

The worst part of this is that generally those that do participate are somewhat disappointed afterwards due to myriad issues, but most often just the sheer number of participants overwhelms the staff at whatever venue was chosen.

You would think that the organizers would at least recognize that those selecting alternative activities are helping to enable those that do a better chance of having an enjoyable experience by keeping the attendance within reason.

And OBTW, since it keeps coming up - beyond not being asked about the whole engine revving thing prior to being told we were expected to participate when we checked in at the park. It was something that most of us non-participants felt was either trite and/or potentially disrespectful of other park attendees. We don't have to agree on this, but don't chastise those that feel otherwise.

Add in having to listen to a certain HHR parked right next to us with the AC on high and the engine fan maxed out for the better part of an hour or so prior to didn't do anything to encourage making even more noise. Hint: Next time park it away from everyone, like over at the designated parking area.

Lastly, for the past several events, some of us have at least doubled the requested fee to ensure the organizer's would be properly compensated for any unexpected costs that may have occurred. So it isn't like we don't recognize or appreciate the effort involved.

We really don't need anything more than a tent reservation to allow people have a place to get out of the sun - or rain, for that matter - but mostly just to ensure we have an reserved area to assemble the cars.

So WFNY can be held whatever weekend you want, but if somebody decides to have an improptu get together on the last weekend as well, we'll have some difficult choices to make regarding which event we select to attend.

- J

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dmg4

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:09 pm

Ah, the banter of family holidays.  I love you guys.

If you know me, you know I'll try to be accommodating. If you don't know me, then you might try a bit harder.  I've lived in Geneva for 33 years.  Let me at least make a few calls on Monday and find out what's up and when downtown.  We may be blowing out of both ends needlessly here.

Now, be nice to each other.  The children are watching you.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:26 pm

dmg4 wrote:
Ah, the banter of family holidays.  I love you guys.
The world is full of unrequited love.

“dmg4” wrote:
If you know me, you know I'll try to be accommodating. If you don't know me, then you might try a bit harder.
The lines between being helpful, accomodating, controlling, get blurred sometimes, a little too far in either direction and either party no longer recognizes the original verb, and then verbs become adjectives.

“dmg4” wrote:
We may be blowing out of both ends needlessly here.
Could this be understood as the royal “we” ?

“dmg4” wrote:
Now, be nice to each other.  The children are watching you.

Such condescending comments don’t contribute to additional accomodations.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:16 pm

lakeffect wrote:


There was very little support from attendees last year for Watkins Glen, or any other activities. Even getting people to do things AT Wagonfest were a struggle.Seemed like it was either " been there, did that", or no interest.

The first year watkins glen was offered i think i missed it,.?
2nd year there was good turn out.
I attended watkins glen because for me it was a chance to legally test the envelope of the car, flat out around a race track even in a stock whale is something i looked forward to. I was quickly informed that 55 was max limit and to follow pace vehicle. If i were to exceed the limit the whole club would unceremoniously escorted off the track banished forever as a whole. Then i was told a way to bend the rules , to stay near the back let a large gap form then have at it hard to catch the pack. That turned out to be fun for me and also at the time Tim swink. That is until we came around a corner with the cars laid out and over in a good line,  and had an exciting moment when we caught one of the slower cars out for a sunday afternon cruise
Things got frustrating quickly as we all had to follow an suv, no passing was another rule.
I won’t go again unless thinngs are less restrictive, but thats me personally. I recommend the watkins glen experience for those people wanting to experience driving where normally only race cars go and if commuting in traffic around a racetrack is something they would enjoy.
Revving the engine of a stock caddy is embarrasing really.
As for supper, most folks are astute enough to know that some people do not wish to socialize with some other people, basically you can’t feed dogs and pussies together.
In the park on saturdays meet there is enough room to keep a safe distance, and everybody is very polite and cordial as they all should be which makes things bearable for all, and the day passes pleasantly.



Last edited by phantom 309 on Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:28 pm

I can appreciate that point Nick. I can also follow the logic of comparing that type of event to seeing the Empire State Building or Niagara Falls. How many times does a person need to see them before it gets old, hence my thought of maybe it's partially "Been there did that" I don't mean that an an insulting remark to anyone, just trying to appreciate the reason for the ever dwindling participation in that regard..

I can see where others have been in the cars, on there butts for hours, and the last thing they would want to do is get back in the car for a few more hours, particularly when considering the extra fuel and ticket costs of the Glen stuff in the other all view of we all only have so much money and time.


To be honest, I had not previously realized how important the correlation of the downtown show   during the Wagonfest weekend was to so many  festers.  My fault for not having a better handle on, or polling for ideas of want people liked best about  past overall aspects of the trip to WagonFest.



Last edited by lakeffect on Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:36 pm

lakeffect wrote:
I can appreciate that point Nick. I can also follow the logic of comparing that type of event to see the Empire State Building or Niagara Falls. How many times does a person need to see Them, hence my thought of maybe it's partially "Been there did that" I don't mean that an an insulting remark to.

I can see where others have been in the cars, on there butts for hours, and the last thing they would want to do is get back in the car for a few more hours, particularly when considering the extra fuel and ticket costs of the Glen stuff in the other all view of we all only have so much money and time.


To be honest, I had not previously realized how important the correlation of the downtown show   during the Wagonfest weekend was to so many  festers.  My fault for not having a better handle on, or polling for ideas of want people liked best about  past overall aspects of the trip to WagonFest.

No need to self flagellate in this thread dave,..we’ve all moved on. You did what you thought was best and made wagonfest a pleasant experience for a lot of people for quite a few years and you have been thanked profusely on numerous occasions. You simply cannot please all the people all of the time. Now we can discuss options before wagonfest takes a different approach, and hopefully keep attendance up.
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:53 pm

A friend  had pointed out to me afterward last year that it was "Too bad the Goose Watch Winery Car show is  also on a Saturday. You guys could all go there instead!"

It made me wonder about holding a Daytona style  Wagonfest event within  their event where we all show up to their car show instead of the Lakeside park. It's literally twenty miles south in Romulas and considered a by far better car show  than Downtown.  A lot of locals with really nice cars won't even  go to the Geneva  show, saying  it has had a past history of people in the crowd scratching up stuff, rowdy  folks etc.  Goose Watch might be an alternative, and is held on this coming July 21, 2018, one of the days in consideration for Wagonfest.   ( not to be confused with Goose Watch near Albany)

Here's a link for anyone who wants to know more about it. Might be worth a look to read about it, and a sincere  thought or two expressed here afterward.

https://goosewatch.com/events/classic-car-show/

Here's what the registration form is like.

https://goosewatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2016-Car-Registration-Form.pdf
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dmg4

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:13 pm

For the record: Wagonfest 2018 was discussed here and eventually billed as a minimalist event.  There was no intimation that we would go to a restaurant together, go to Watkins Glen, or have any other group activity except for parking together Sat and Sun at the park, near a tent.

The way I see the Glen is: go if you want to. If not, do something else. I have enjoyed it, but if only 4 cars want to go and one of them is mine, that's fine by me.  Someday I might want to do something else, but I'm not bored yet. Half the fun for me is taking a passenger who's never been on a racetrack.

Again, if a significant proportion of those intending to participate want the event to be the same weekend as Cruise Night in Geneva, then the first order would be to find out when that date is. As I said, I'll call the Geneva BID tomorrow to see if they are holding the event in 2018, and if so, when.

As has also been mentioned, there is the option on the 21st at Goose Watch Winery, which is likely larger than the Geneva Show.

Syracuse Nationals are July 20-22, if you really want baptism by total immersion in a car show.
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dmg4

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:09 am

phantom309 wrote:
The world is full of unrequited love.

And yet....

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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:29 am

Unrequetted love.. Wasn't that a song by Lionel Richie back in the 80's?

 That's one small sheep for a man, a giant sheep for mankind.
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:39 am

I just spoke to the secretary at the Geneva BID, and Cruise Night will be Friday, 27 July this summer.

This thread has seen a lot of back and forth between a few people. I'd suggest we set up a poll to gauge interest and commitment to available dates, contact those who attended Wagonfest last year, and invite them to participate.

We apparently have a choice of dates targeting Geneva Cruise Night on Friday the 27th, the Goose Watch Winery Auto Show on Saturday the 21st, or something else (the weekend of July 14th).


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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:41 pm

I disappeared Dave's goodbye thread. I want to keep the WagonFest section on point. With social media being the way most people communicate as opposed to forums, I wanted keep the confusion to a minimum for first timers coming here. I'll be re-naming this thread too, just for clarity. There is no conspiracy, or shady deals being made.

Mike
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lakeffect
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:39 pm

Thank you Mike. I did not think there was any deceptiveness going on, just eliminating possible confusion. Thanks for clarifying that point.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:38 pm

200OZ wrote:
I'll be re-naming this thread too, just for clarity. Mike   

No thankyou,. The title of this thread is all encompassing, and i want it left alone until it reaches its conclusion.

Thankyou.
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:25 pm

It's time to hear from some other voices. I've opened a poll under a new thread with options to select either the third or fourth weekend in July. I'll list the basic features of each weekend with the poll.

I'll PM all attendees from 2017, and encourage them to take part in the poll, and leave it open for a week or so, send one reminder 24 hrs before closing, and then tally the results and report here. Then we can continue the discussion in light of the vote.
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PostSubject: Re: WagonFest New York 2018: Organisation   Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:49 pm

phantom 309 wrote:
200OZ wrote:
I'll be re-naming this thread too, just for clarity. Mike   

No thankyou,. The title of this thread is all encompassing, and i want it left alone until it reaches its conclusion.

Thankyou.

I’m just adding “New York” to your title Nick.
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