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 making wagon 4wd. need input

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mythi



Posts : 39
Join date : 2019-01-22
Age : 28
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 3:11 am

so im looking at making my wagon 4wd with a switch instead of just awd. i want it to still sit low and not lifted up to the sky. from what i have gathered some people have done this on a suburban frame with a lift and custom fuel tank. i have been told a good bet is to use a Tahoe frame from a 2001-2015. as the 2016s have larger wheels and brake systems. the Tahoe wheel base is 116' and the wagons is 115.9' so a pretty good match. A Yukon would work also work, but most i find are awd not 4wd and a Escalade is all time awd so that would work but i like the 4wd switch. it seems the Tahoe and Yukon have the same motor a 5.3 but i think i will use the LT1 as it is in good shape and has the power to move the wagon.

what i need info on is it looks like the transmissions are the same as the wagon just with 4wd. is this true or are the bolt patterns different as well as the housing?

also what do you think about the gearing switching from the 4 speed to a 6 speed in comparison to power/torque and gas mileage? the most i pull is a motorcycle on the hitch so i don't really need to pull a real trailer but i also dont want to kill the motor and be in my own way.

any input would be a great help. ty
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5067
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 8:12 am

Putting a Yukon, Tahoe, or Escalade frame under the wagon body would be much easier if you used the engine as well. The donor chassis is setup with the LS engine, and would require more modification to use the LT1 than to use the existing engine in the chassis. You can even move the hydroboost unit if it has it. The donors can also come with up to a 6.2L LS.

You may be able to find a transfer case with a disengage feature that will replace the one on the donor.
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silverfox103
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silverfox103

Posts : 2927
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Age : 70
Location : Littleton, NH & St. Simons, GA

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 11:16 am

Here's one all made, low mileage, just needs a transmission.

https://vermont.craigslist.org/cto/d/chelsea-1994-statonwagon/6803274620.html

Tom
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mythi



Posts : 39
Join date : 2019-01-22
Age : 28
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 12:23 pm

That 1 for sale looks messed up. The truck frame is to stiff and would not make for a good ride aswell as it sits to high. When did a basic Tahoe with a 5.3 become a L.S? what is the difference between my 4l60e and a tahoe with a 4l60e?
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

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Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 70
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 7:02 pm

The 5.3 is an LS derivative.

The main difference is probably the tailshaft and tailshaft housing. There are other internal differences available for different vehicles.

The truck frame will always be much stiffer, and you are going to need different springs and many other assorted changes. They don't just bolt up. The transfer case will require more ground clearance. You will have to make a path for the front wheel driveshaft, and a place for the front differential, etc, etc, etc.
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mythi



Posts : 39
Join date : 2019-01-22
Age : 28
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 10:47 pm

Right just thinking about hearing and power. Most Tahoe's and yukons have were the 5.3 and 4wd. Maybe I should look more at a Escalade as most have all time awd and a 6.2
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RedandBlack

RedandBlack

Posts : 494
Join date : 2016-01-19

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSun Feb 03, 2019 1:03 am

🍿 settling down for this one
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94Woody

94Woody

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Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 44
Location : Belleview,FL

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSun Feb 03, 2019 11:43 am

RedandBlack wrote:
🍿 settling down for this one

Pass the popcorn, please.

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mythi



Posts : 39
Join date : 2019-01-22
Age : 28
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSun Feb 03, 2019 9:51 pm

A 6L Escalade would be nice rebuild the motor and tranny would be great. Will lift as little just for clearance. At the same time might just keep it stock as the wagons are collectable. Might get the blue 1 for my brother in Ohio cas he wants 1 after the hagerdy mag. If so might just lift a magnum with the 300 front would look cool. Idk yet
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mythi



Posts : 39
Join date : 2019-01-22
Age : 28
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSun Feb 03, 2019 9:52 pm

But feel free to keep poking fun. Some people are just willing to put in the work.
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94Woody

94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeMon Feb 04, 2019 6:30 pm

I love seeing cars turned into 4x4s and a wagon would make a great one. My humor lies elsewhere.
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convert2diesel



Posts : 939
Join date : 2009-01-05
Age : 66
Location : Manotick, Ontario

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeMon Feb 04, 2019 11:26 pm

Certainly not a project I would undertake but I can always accept a challenge affraid.  Some initial observations:

1.  Have an 06 Silverado 1500 with the 6.0 Vortec, 4L70 Trans and the NP 247 electronic all wheel drive Transfer case.  the Transfer case does not protrude significantly lower than the oil pan so this shouldn't be an issue as long as you install a substantial skid pan under the case as its made of magnesium and very fragile.

2.  You can get up to a 3 inch drop kit for these trucks giving you at least 8 inches of clearance under the mechanicals.

3.  The Suburban, Escalade SUVs use coils in the back so you could start with one of these or do a spring conversion on the rear end from another truck.  All the GM 4X4s use torsion bars for the front so that could be adjusted for ride height or conversely, bag the truck front and rear.

4.  As far as mounting the body onto the truck chassis, that should be an exercise in welding in body mounts though major surgery would be needed to the drive train tunnel to accommodate the transfer case.

5.  I disagree with Fred re stiffness.  Ride quality is dictated by body mounts, suspension travel, spring rates and shocks.  The stiffer frame could only help in the handling department.  My truck, with any weight in it, rides almost as well as my old Roadmaster.  Give it softer springs and it would be real close.

Good luck on your Frankencar.

Bill
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeMon Feb 04, 2019 11:47 pm

My statement is that the chassis is stiffer. I did not infer that the handling would suffer, or ride quality would be more harsh because of it. The truck chassis in its stock form would probably ride a little more harshly, but like you said spring and shocks would make it more compliant.
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convert2diesel



Posts : 939
Join date : 2009-01-05
Age : 66
Location : Manotick, Ontario

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2019 9:31 am

I stand corrected Fred. Misinterpreted your statement.

Bill
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mythi



Posts : 39
Join date : 2019-01-22
Age : 28
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2019 9:40 pm

well here is the new story. the 678 jeep on the lift got F###### a old chain broke on the trailor and my brother left his mark on I25. The frame and drive train will need to be re-done since it went up in flames. This is pushing my project back. This is the part where the story gets good. I was told that a Cadillac will cost as much as a dodge magnum. I have never been in a magnum but have herd bad stories. I can get a magnum instead of a Escalade and do whatever i want to it. (as it should be, because its just a dodge). I can keep the roadmaster and leave it stock as it is now becoming sought after. The problem being is who really wants a dodge? or a dodge magnum r/t awd? it seems it is the easy way out. I set out to build the most BA wagon. I LOVE the roadmaster and will never loose that love! What i want is a true road-illac. 6.2 LS under a roadmaster. My escalade has never failed me.(not the one im taking apart, that will be a donor car from copart). The roadmaster has captured my imagination since i seen the wheel love and top-gear USA S1E3. Rutledge was right this IS the car that would have saved GM. If they did not turn to Opal motors to build the new regal X turd edition. All modern cars are plastic and are not a true "car for life"! If you cant tell im still on the side of the roadmaster. but a magnum already awd with a c300 front end and a few other mods would look cool. Thoughts? will be considered but i think i already made up my mind. The value of a stock roadmaster may go down from becoming the ultimate awd beast on the road; but that is what i started; and i think i want to see it though. Remember im not looking to just "skyjack" another roadmaster with a huge lift on just any old truck frame; but more to be subtle like this caprice wagon i posted in my intro post.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipM0hPbmaVAAi5_9Y2bKdtN5A8EQG84lWjkwtvo
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bigredwagon

bigredwagon

Posts : 86
Join date : 2015-06-07
Location : NRV Virginia

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeWed Feb 06, 2019 5:21 pm

mythi wrote:
That 1 for sale looks messed up. The truck frame is to stiff and would not make for a good ride aswell as it sits to high. When did a basic Tahoe with a 5.3 become a L.S? what is the difference between my 4l60e and a tahoe with a 4l60e?

Yeah I hate it when the frame is strong... did you mean to say the suspension would be stiffer?

I'm not trying to discourage you or anything but there's a reason that one linked for sale sat high on that truck frame. It is just going to sit higher than standard ride height unless considerable surgery is done. The firewall, transmission tunnel, floor, maybe the rear cargo area for the suspension and gas tank are going to need to be reworked plus whatever else needs notched.

Ls based engines started powering chevys way back in 1997. 5.3 & 4.8 came a few yrs later. So every 5.3 is ls based. I believe they were not technically labeled ls as trucks kept the vortec name.

Btw, chevy already made the car you are talking about Frankensteining. Its called a suburban. Push button 4wd, rear hvac.
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mythi



Posts : 39
Join date : 2019-01-22
Age : 28
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeWed Feb 06, 2019 10:52 pm

yes the suspension would be stiff and the ride would be lame. im not worried about doing the work. how many wagons here have tinted windows and a new stereo? now how many of them have a 6L or 6.2L LS in them? i know the car will sit higher and the escalade's frame bends down in the middle so the tranny and transfer case should be fine considering the transfer case is behind the tranny on the escalades. taller body mounts in the middle would stabilize the body to the frame. The suburban is 4x4 but they all look the same and the wagon is unique. i am just thinking of making it more unique. the wagon sits on the ground factory so a lift would not be bad and to get a suburban to be the same it would need to be lowered and that would also destroy the ride.

"but there's a reason that one linked for sale sat high on that truck" lol and you want to make fun of my writing. i know what you meant and you know what i meant.
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bigredwagon

bigredwagon

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Location : NRV Virginia

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeWed Feb 06, 2019 11:31 pm

Check yourself friend. I'm not making fun of you in the least. I'm trying to have a constructive conversation. I try to type in complete sentences and apologize if my pos phone doesn't make it come across that way.

I think a roadie that looks stock but is awd and has new tech underneath is killer. But to get there is a long road that has not been traveled as far as I know. Ls1,lq4,lsx whatever ls based engine swap sure but I can't recall seeing an awd b body that looked stock. Only time I've seen them it's the cab being dropped on top of a truck frame and looks like a truck from the 80's with a body lift and no suspension change. (The monster truck roadie was kinda funny though) Again I'm trying to help, if my help isn't wanted block me and be done with it.

Tinted windows and stereos..what? Lots of b-bodies have ls power in them.
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phantom 309

phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2019 3:10 am

standing by with shovel at the ready,.....

trailblazer would be a better donor
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mythi



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Age : 28
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2019 7:38 pm

to bad the trailblazer wheel base is about 3" to short.
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phantom 309

phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2019 11:23 pm

mythi wrote:
to bad the trailblazer wheel base is about 3" to short.

yeah too bad,...
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94Woody

94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeMon Feb 18, 2019 7:17 pm

mythi wrote:
to bad the trailblazer wheel base is about 3" to short.

So what? Are you not capable of fabrication? If not, perhaps this task is something you should not mess with because nothing is going to be a simple bolt on.
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Swaggerwagon

Swaggerwagon

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeTue Feb 19, 2019 2:08 am

Is this the ‘roadmaster king’ with a new username?
A more serious question, what previous fab/bump/paint experience do you have? This project is a TON of cutting & welding
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silverfox103
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silverfox103

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeTue Feb 19, 2019 8:00 am

Swaggerwagon wrote:
Is this the ‘roadmaster king’ with a new username?

I thought the exact same thing!

Tom
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RedandBlack

RedandBlack

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeTue Feb 19, 2019 11:27 am

🍿
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jayoldschool

jayoldschool

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PostSubject: Re: making wagon 4wd. need input   making wagon 4wd. need input Icon_minitimeTue Feb 19, 2019 6:12 pm

silverfox103 wrote:
Swaggerwagon wrote:
Is this the ‘roadmaster king’ with a new username?

Do the mods here know how to do an IP check?

I thought the exact same thing!

Tom
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