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goldwolfnhn



Posts : 98
Join date : 2019-07-11
Location : De Pere, Wisconsin

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PostSubject: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeWed Jan 01, 2020 1:00 am

my 140,000 mile 94 RMW just recently developed an abnormally long crank before the engine fires to life, I have already replaced the fuel pressure regulator the first time the car gave me this issue.

I did the tests again, clamping off the return line, then once the system pressure was up clamped off the pressure line and system still bled out within seconds so pretty certain it's a bad injector but, should I go cheap and just get the faulty injector replaced, or just go all out and try to get all 8 injectors replaced at one time.
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5421
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 71
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeWed Jan 01, 2020 7:41 am

There is supposed to be a check valve in the fuel pump. Have you checked it?
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goldwolfnhn



Posts : 98
Join date : 2019-07-11
Location : De Pere, Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeWed Jan 01, 2020 8:35 am

I had the pressure line, and the return line clamped off, like the FSM says to do for testing, so the fuel could not have drained back to the tank, and the only place it could go was out the injectors, also we where only having issues with the hoses on the aftermarket sending units
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dmg4

dmg4

Posts : 933
Join date : 2014-08-13
Age : 65
Location : Geneva, New York

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeThu Jan 02, 2020 5:28 am

Must...suppress...inner....teenage...boy. Arrrgh!

Oh... you meant the car.
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5421
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 71
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeThu Jan 02, 2020 8:06 am

Clamping the hoses does not guarantee that you sealed the hose. I would not clamp a 25 year old hose, for fear of cracking it. I would still make sure the check valve in the pump is working.

If it is an injector, you should be getting too much fuel in one or more cylinders, possibly causing a hydraulic lock.

Did you check for spark when you are cranking it? Have you pulled any plugs to check them for color?
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jayoldschool

jayoldschool

Posts : 2586
Join date : 2009-06-14

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeThu Jan 02, 2020 4:26 pm

You need to test the actual pressure. Key in, RUN, check pressure. Start car, check pressure. Rev engine, check pressure. Drive car, check. Cruise, check. Hard acceleration, check.

Zip tie the gauge to the driver's wiper for your test. Helps to take a video of the gauge while you're doing this so you can check it later.

Then, get back to us.
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

Posts : 5421
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 71
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeThu Jan 02, 2020 4:44 pm

It is not advisable to zip tie the gauge to the wiper in the rain.
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jayoldschool

jayoldschool

Posts : 2586
Join date : 2009-06-14

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeThu Jan 02, 2020 5:39 pm

Nor is it advisable to drive the car off a cliff while testing fuel pressure.
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goldwolfnhn



Posts : 98
Join date : 2019-07-11
Location : De Pere, Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeFri Jan 03, 2020 8:27 pm

well don't know what the problem was. drove from Oneida, WI, to Stevens Point, WI to have the shop I trust that's done the sending unit to check it over only to have the car stop having the issue once I got there.
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goldwolfnhn



Posts : 98
Join date : 2019-07-11
Location : De Pere, Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeSun Jan 05, 2020 7:59 pm

and today after work the long crank before starting was back, so tomorrow I get to see if it was a fluke or if something about the colder temp now is maybe what is causing the issue.
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jayoldschool

jayoldschool

Posts : 2586
Join date : 2009-06-14

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeSun Jan 05, 2020 8:08 pm

So, how's the fuel pressure testing going?
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94Woody

94Woody

Posts : 1740
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 44
Location : Belleview,FL

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeSun Jan 05, 2020 11:29 pm

You posted before about Delphi sender issues like I had. Sounds like it may be rearing it's ugly head again.

Check. The. Fuel. Pressure.
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goldwolfnhn



Posts : 98
Join date : 2019-07-11
Location : De Pere, Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeMon Jan 06, 2020 5:22 pm

I have, while the pump is running I'm 41 psi and even while the car is running with the vacuum line to the regulator removed, attach the vacuum line, pressure drops to about 35 psi holds steady, shut off the car, within seconds the pressure is zero.

after letting the car sit a bit I hooked up the fuel pressure tester and cycled the key to the run position and pressure slowly went from 0 to about 18 before the pump shut off, but within seconds the pressure was nearly back to zero, I cycled the key again and this time the pressure climbed to about 41 before the pump shut off and the moment the pump shut off the pressure immediately dropped to almost thirty before slowly going back down to zero, cycled the key a couple more times with it jumping to 41, suddenly dropping to 30 when the pump shuts off then dropping to zero. Started the car and with the vacuum line still hooked to the fuel pressure regulator pressure was sitting at around 35, disconnected the vacuum line and pressure jumped to 41, hooked the line back up pressure dropped to 35, shut off the car pressure climbed to 41 before rapidly falling back to zero.

but like I said I drove it an hour and a half from Oneida to Stevens point to have a shop I trust there check it out, but when they did no problems at all and for the next couple days no problems until yesterday afternoon when I went to start the car up at work and then this morning when I went to work and when I left work again, but stopping at a store I was inside for about 10 to 12 minutes came back out and the car fired up no problems. the only thing I can think of is something to do with temperature, when I was in point it was in the mid forties no problem holding pressure, I come back home and the temp goes down to the 20's-30's or colder and can't hold pressure.
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94Woody

94Woody

Posts : 1740
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 44
Location : Belleview,FL

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeMon Jan 06, 2020 6:45 pm



Yours is doing the exact same thing mine did when the sender hose had a pin hole in it. Could also be the pump itself because there is a check ball in there.
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goldwolfnhn



Posts : 98
Join date : 2019-07-11
Location : De Pere, Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeTue Jan 07, 2020 7:14 am

well like I said the odd thing is that when the temps were in the forties after a long drive no problems with fuel pressure, when the shop tested the car pressure went up immediately and held and the car started fine even the next day after sitting outside overnight but now I'm back home temps are going down again and the problem is back.

unless the tolerances on the check ball are off and the colder temps are causing it to not seal.
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goldwolfnhn



Posts : 98
Join date : 2019-07-11
Location : De Pere, Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 9:44 pm

ok still trying to figure things out but so far it seems the colder the outside temps the worse the starting problem is, the other day it was in the teens and I used a jumper wire to the fuel pump test lead with my pressure gauge attached, there was a delayed response between me hooking the jumper to battery positive and pressure climbing and then the climb was slow, it would get to about 35 drop slightly then climb again to about 41psi.

I bought some fuel line fittings to make my own fuel shut off adaptors for testing instead of buying this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

got the ones for the return line already so had that set up using a rubber fuel hose off the new fitting to properly be able to shut off the line with a pair of clamp off pliers, and when I did there was absolutely no change in anything, even with the line clamped off and no leaks fuel pressure never climbed over 41 and immediately dropped the moment the pump shut off, Wednesday I should be getting the fittings for the pressure side so I can confirm is I got injector issues(don't think so with how fast the pressure drop is) or if it's another issue 'again' with the pump and sending unit.
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goldwolfnhn



Posts : 98
Join date : 2019-07-11
Location : De Pere, Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: long crank before start   long crank before start Icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 7:01 pm

well got the shut off adapters made and hooked up, had the return line shut off attempted to pressurize the system and there was a several second delay before pressure built up but then it only got to about 30psi before it wouldn't go higher and I closed the pressure line as I shut off the fuel pump and no pressure drop at all, opened the return line, no pressure drop, opened the return line pressure immediately dropped to zero.

repressurized the system, again could only get to about 30, but this time left the pressure line closed and left it sit, checked an hour later and pressure had dropped about 9psi, letting it sit overnight see what it is in the morning. But I'm pretty sure my main pressure issue is once again something with the sending unit. So waiting for the shop in Stevens Point to get back to me and hopefully I can take her up there and they can fit her in by Friday.
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