Trans is slipping

OK, did a search and came up empty. Yesterday all was fine, today when I went to work, the trans started slipping in first- just off idle. So, what does one do to verify? Yup, FLOOR IT!!! So, at WOT the tran slips just off idle and slips BAD going into second. So bad, I had to let off the throttle to get it to shift into 2nd. 3rd and 4th seem fine. Fluid is fine and full. Was worse on the way home, so I put a bottle of Lucas trans fix in it, now it doesn't slip but "shudders" under WOT. I ASSume that shuddering is the Lucas doing what it does? Now, where is that write up that Joel did on trans problems.... causes and cures?


Christ I hope towing that 2500# trailer with sloshing water didn't cause this.... I'll have to get a Truck Did someone say "Ram 3500 quad cab extended bed diesel dually"?

Here is the 4L60E thread from the ISSF...

Good luck...

Way cheaper just to buy a good 4L60E and have it installed.

First thing I'd do is have a shop put a line pressure gauge on it and see what's going on. It should be 60-70psi at idle in anything but R. In R it should go up to at least 100-150. It should also momentarily spike to 150-200 if you whomp the throttle in park.

Whatever you do, drive it gently until you figure out what's going on.

So Joel, I take it this is serious. Damn.


How hard is it to do a T56??

On a rust-free southern car? Not hard at all.

Krzdimond wrote:

So Joel, I take it this is serious. Damn.


How hard is it to do a T56??

wel,.. its not hard,. but with 2:93's,. i,d talk to jaySS and find out which heavy flywheel and clutch he used,. and beg for his program for the ecm,. i drove that car and it was exceptionally well mannered for a tall geared car,.stick shift is better for towing anything too,.

Nick

Check your fluid level first. Engine running, in Park, warmed up, on a level surface.

It sounds like you have low line pressure. At least that's my hope, because there's a chance that can be remedied. That's why I suggested the gauge. If you have regular line pressure and it's slipping, well... merry christmas!

Are you running a stock tune Robert? I had my line pressure raised a bit on my WB4 (it was low and doing what yours is doing now) via a tune and that solved it. I still did a rebuild later on though.

Fluid is full and clean. I will get the trans checked out at the local trans shop on Monday.

I got the PCMforless tune about 2 years ago. Supposed to fix the trans issues then also, but you never know.....

Oh, about the T56, I was kidding. I cannot be without this car for long as it is my DD and I put close to 20K on it a year.

Just so you guys know, "raising the line pressure via a tune" only raises the line pressure at part throttle. It does not, it CANNOT raise the line pressure at WOT unless GM actually left some pressure on the table at WOT (they did with the roadmaster tuning, but I don't think so with the Caprice tuning). The PCM controls the line pressure solenoid. It's a pulse-width modulated solenoid that goes from 0% to 100%. Once it's at 100%, then it's up to the internals of the transmission. It's not like you can command 110%. Most of the part-throttle seat-of-the-pants improvement is simply the tuner turning the volume up sooner, if you will, but max volume is max volume.

If the trans is worn or you've got leaky seals, max volume may not be a whole lot. LubeGard, TransX and similar products have chemicals that soften the seals to give a better seal and give you a bit more life, but at that point you're best to start saving for a rebuild. If the clutches are already worn down to nothing at that point, the additives won't help.

The other thing is to change your fluid regularly, whatever the interval in the owner's manual says. This keeps fresh fluid in which helps the seals and clutches and everything else in the transmission.

OK, update: Went to breakfast this morning and I think I lost 1st gear. At 0-50% throttle 1st slips just off idle, but at 51-90% throttle it shudders bad. Upper 50% throttle and it won't go into 2nd at all. Now, when I manually put it in 2nd, all is fine regardless of the throttle %. That tells me it's not a TPS or PCM issue. Anyway, tomorrow morning it will go into the shop. Because I know nothing about transmissions, if they tell me that because the thingamajigs are burnt, the whatchamacallit is cracked and the sunspot is broken it needs a complete rebuild, what do I need to get to have a stage 2 trans? What works, and what doesn't? I have also heard that when upgrading a trans, you should always replace the TC. Is that true?

I only want to do this once.

BTW, I run this daily driver (20K miles a year) at the upper 1/2 of the throttle 90% of the time. I also pull a water trailer that weighs in at about 3000 punds sitting still (more with sloshing).

Bummer about the transmission dying. Go with a quality performance rebuild from a reputable shop and a new torque converter. Tell the shop how you use the wagon and your driving habits and they should be able to build one to meet your needs.

Also, for agressive driving and/or towing, I highly recommend adding an external cooler to keep the fluid temperatures down.

power handling does not equal durability. For example, a CPT level 1 trans would be fine for just about all of the bolt-on crowd. Build quality and the right mix of parts FOR YOUR APPLICATION equals durability. Tell the shop exactly what you're doing with it and how you drive, and let them select the right parts combo. Bounce that combo off of myself or Shane at CPT as sanity check. Then make sure the warrantee is written to your specs. It's like building an engine; a stocker does not need titanium rods, so why spend your money on them?

One thing you might consider is a GM/Delco rebuild. They're offering 3-yr, 100k warrantees now I believe, and parts and labor is included regardless of where you break down; ANY GM dealership can handle it.

Chrysler does most or all of their rebuilds through Jasper now, and when the transmission on my wife's minivan crapped in the middle of our christmas trip last year, that's what I put in. 3yr, 100k parts and labor warrantee valid at any mopar dealership (yeah yeah, they'll be gone soon probably, but oh well). Jasper may offer a similar program for GM transmissions. I know some people (myself included) have griped at what they put in them, but given the warranty, I don't care if they put bubble gum and duct tape in it as long as I get my 3yrs / 100k out of it.

Yes, I'd replace the converter. It's $100 of cheap insurance.

I talked with the GM dealership a while ago about another trans because, as we all know, the trans is the weak link here. Anyway, they said that they can only replace with a rebuilt trans set to OEM spec. Basically, you drop off your car, they determine that it's shot and needs replacement, they order a reman unit and install. Your old one gets shipped off to get rebuilt and put into someone elses car. If I want something other than stock, I'd have to use a 3rd party vendor.

But that may just be my local dealership.

shove a serta in there,. add the transgo kit,. and a vette servo,. and a nice big cooler,. you'll be good to go,..
jmho for a stocker,.

Nick

I know why I need to add the transgo and servo, but why do I need the mattress?

*sigh*...
you got google.?
Service Exchange Replacement Transmission Assembly
actually the acronym is,..
SRTA
service rebuilt transmisson assembly
Put a 4l80E in it,.
JaySS can help you with programming,.

LT1 cars already have the "vette servo."

sitting on the lift as I type this. front clutchpac or the TC is shot. looks like I'm walking for tthe next 2 days

Just got word from the trans guy.

The aluminum forward piston cracked then disintegrated, taking out the trans. There are aluminum bits EVERYWHERE! He is going to put in all new HD stuff.... most that I forgot . New sunshell, upshift solenoids, all 4 bands, new wire harness from PCM to trans (something about a TSB from GM), steel pistons, new TC and a shift kit.

$2050 plus tax for a 12 month unlimited mileage, unconditional guarantee.

Expensive, but he promises that this will be "buletproof" for towing the water trailer and embarrassing kids in Hondas.

Krzdimond wrote:

Just got word from the trans guy.

The aluminum forward piston cracked then disintegrated, taking out the trans. There are aluminum bits EVERYWHERE!

so it just needs a forward piston and some new clutch plates for another 100,000mi trouble free motoring?

Krzdimond wrote:

4 bands, a new wire harness from PCM to trans (something about a TSB from GM), steel pistons,

$2050 plus tax for a 12 month unlimited mileage, unconditional guarantee.

Expensive, but he promises that this will be "buletproof" for towing the water trailer and embarrassing kids in Hondas.

ask the guy for the TSB #,. i couldn't find anything for 94-96 roadmaster wagons regarding pcm-trans wiring,.
just something to think about,. mebbe you ought to cruise around e-bay and see just how much the hard parts cost to build a 4l60E,. stuff is cheap,.
INMHO $600 would cover the cost of a lot of new parts plus a stock converter,. which leaves 1400 worth of labour,.
decent margin i must say,..certainly expensive enough for a bunch of stuff even I don't understand,.inmho you're overpaying by $5-700
Just a quick link for comparison,. check the warranty on this trans,.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY-CHEVROLET-GMC-TRUCK-SUV-VAN-4L60E-TRANSMISSION_W0QQitemZ260488053115QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca64c417b
Another with converter and free shipping better warranty than your guy,.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy-Rebuilt-Transmission-4L60E-Converter-Free-Ship_W0QQitemZ170424872861QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27ae1d2f9d

But if you're comfortable with the deal, then thats all that matters,.
Good luck eh?

Nick

Nick, I agree on the over charge. But from what I understand, after telling him my driving habits, he is installing better stuff to make sure it won't grenade itself again.

I look at it this way, people pay me upwards of $300 to clean their car. Can they do it themselves? Sure. But they either do not have the time, tools, or inclination to do it themselves. That is where i am. I have neither the time nor tools to do this myself. You pay for convenience. A complete rebuild in a day and a half? Yeah, I think I'm paying for that. The guy after me in line won't get his back until Thursday afternoon....hopefully.

Sounds like a decent deal, honestly, and you listed all the right parts (although there's only one band). Did he put in a new reverse input drum? For that price, I hope he did (they were $65 the last time I checked). A broken forward piston was exactly what got me into the 4L60E thing in the first place, actually. The steel pistons are the fix for this.

You should buff the case and the pan before he puts it back in, then you can say you worked on it yourself.

I called a local trans shop a few weeks ago (Syracuse, NY area) and they quoted me $1,800 for a rebuild if I brought them a core and then wanted it installed. I am not sure which parts they would use but they said it would be guaranteed for life so your price looks about right from what I have seen....

I had the GM reman trans put in my Cruiser before WF last year. The price was was somewhere around $1800. I'd say you got a decent deal too. You got a shift kit too that's a nice 'bonus'.

I'll ask for a parts list when I pick it up. Like I said, I know nothing about transmissions. It's all Greek to me.

For comparison:
My wife's 4T65E (under warranty) would have cost me $2750 to rebuild. About 55K later, still going strong.