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 little help please?

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Fred Kiehl
Olds Weighty Eight
sherlock9c1
vamp8267
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vamp8267




Posts : 34
Join date : 2009-01-29
Age : 52
Location : Tulsa, Oklahoma

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PostSubject: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 2:43 am

Well guys, I'm finally back. Recently "rescued" a '94 RMW with less than 20,000 on the rebuilt motor. Old man lost his license and finally decided to get rid of it after sitting for 8 years. Anyways, after cleaning the tank out and checking the plugs and wires basically replaced the tires put some gas in and away I went. well less than 1000 miles and now tranny only has park and any gear I select puts it in neutral. I've been reading on here that its due to the forward pump going out. well I've already dropped the pan and had no metal in the pan and fluid is still red and doesn't smell burnt. so it looks like I'm going to have to drop the tranny to get the pump out is there ANYTHING else that I should replace or check as a precaution? Don't want to drop the tranny time and time again. Oh, also intermittently my speedo would go back to zero and refuse to move until it got damn good and ready. Thank you all for everything. this website is helping me keep my love for these land yachts alive.
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sherlock9c1




Posts : 2373
Join date : 2009-05-28
Location : Huntsville, AL

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 6:53 am

Where are you from?

Check the trans fluid level with the engine off, then start the engine and check the fluid level again. It should go down if the pump is doing anything.
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Olds Weighty Eight

Olds Weighty Eight


Posts : 1061
Join date : 2011-05-15
Age : 56
Location : Memphis, TN

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 8:03 am

+1...zactly what I was going to suggest. Secondly, get under the car and make sure that the converter is still bolted to the flex plate and that the flex plate has not broken. Sometimes the centers break right out around the crankshaft bolts. You'd be pulling the tranny to replace the flex plate anyway but it would be an easier fix.
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vamp8267




Posts : 34
Join date : 2009-01-29
Age : 52
Location : Tulsa, Oklahoma

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2013 9:27 am

Well, as stated previously I've already dropped the pan. But I do remember checking the fluid level right before my last run and thinking to myslef that it had WAY more fluid in it than should be. Like I checked it the day before and it was right at the top of the HOT section of the dipstick, and the day it went out it was way over. Like someone had added more but that was an impossibility. Basically what I'm needing to know is if there is anything internal that I should check, do a pre-emptive replacement on etc. since I'm going to have it out anyway? I know the tranny has 134,000 on it. thanks
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl


Posts : 7146
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 75
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2013 1:11 am

If the flywheel was broken in the center, you could not start the engine.

I have a feeling you are going to rebuild the trans, or get it rebuilt. The other option is a used one from a pick-n-pull yard.

If price is an issue, the used one from a pick-n-pull yard is your choice.
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vamp8267




Posts : 34
Join date : 2009-01-29
Age : 52
Location : Tulsa, Oklahoma

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 8:22 am

So then just replacing the pump isn't going to fix my problem? I would actually have to have the entire tranny rebuilt?
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MacMasterMike




Posts : 90
Join date : 2012-02-07
Age : 38
Location : Scanton PA

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 9:30 am

While someone like a sherlock would be better to comment, that is sort of how it goes with transmissions. if the pump was failing chances are there was poor pressure in the guts of the transmission and would probably cause damage to clutch/plate packs. Then again that might not be your issue. Once youre in there removing the pump you might as well check the other guts of the transmission, even though the pump is one of the first things you remove.

Also from what ive read/seen that 130k miles is that magic number where these trannys can fail if abused in their life.

Good luck!
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl


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Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 75
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 9:35 am

vamp8267 wrote:
So then just replacing the pump isn't going to fix my problem? I would actually have to have the entire tranny rebuilt?

No one can diagnose your transmission over the internet. You have to have it checked in person by someone who knows what to look for. Take it to a reliable transmission shop, and have them check it. Then you will know what is wrong with it, and you can make a decision on what course to take.
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turbojimmy




Posts : 150
Join date : 2012-10-19

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 9:42 am

Fred Kiehl wrote:
vamp8267 wrote:
So then just replacing the pump isn't going to fix my problem? I would actually have to have the entire tranny rebuilt?

No one can diagnose your transmission over the internet. You have to have it checked in person by someone who knows what to look for. Take it to a reliable transmission shop, and have them check it. Then you will know what is wrong with it, and you can make a decision on what course to take.

Unless, of course, he's okay with trial and error. If he gets lucky and the pump fixes it, he can save a bunch of $$$. Or, it could snowball into several removals and re-installations that could ultimately be more expensive in the long run.

Me, I'd pop a pump in it and see what happens :-)
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95BRMW

95BRMW


Posts : 1692
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Age : 39
Location : Connecticut

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 9:53 am

If you're really unsure, pickup a pressure gauge and hook it onto the test port on the driver's side. I'm betting you won't see anything on the gauge from what you said.
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sherlock9c1




Posts : 2373
Join date : 2009-05-28
Location : Huntsville, AL

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 10:40 am

MacMasterMike wrote:
Also from what ive read/seen that 130k miles is that magic number where these trannys can fail if abused in their life.
130k is a median number - some last longer, some don't. I just pulled my '94's out because Reverse was failing due to a design defect. If I'd actually bothered to fix the defect 30k ago, it would probably still be in the car.

You *could* just replace the pump, but that's like saying "well I'm just going to replace the #7 connecting rod." At that point, you've already got the motor out of the car and upside down, and all of the guts are staring at you anyway.

The last time I had a 4L60E apart, once I had the pump out, it would literally take me 30 minutes to remove and inspect the entire rest of the geartrain (including all clutches). If you can find a shop willing to do that, pay them for an hour's labor to inspect the guts.

I will warn you, there's a reason most recommend a rebuild, since once it's apart, why not just go ahead and put new bushings, clutches, sunshell, etc. while they're in there. When I was fixing 4L60Es for people, I lost count of how many times I would fix parts A and B and then C would break 15,000 miles later, but they didn't want to replace C when it was apart and I recommended doing it. Then they would have a hard time not being mad at me for C even though I didn't touch it. THAT'S why shops want to rebuild, then they can actually guarrantee everything.

Lastly, my favorite phrase on transmissions:
"Statistics suck when they happen to you."
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vamp8267




Posts : 34
Join date : 2009-01-29
Age : 52
Location : Tulsa, Oklahoma

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 26, 2013 9:17 am

Wow, I'd like to thank all of you for your honest input. It looks like the route I'm going to go is the pull a part road. So I'm now left to ask another three questions. 1)Is it a possible for a tranny shop to give a once over to the new to me tranny? I'm concerned with getting one just to install it and find out something's wrong with it. And if they can, 2)what's a rough idea on what I can expect to pay for this service? And 3)What other vehicles can I find my same tranny in? I've not seen a roadmaster sedan or wagon out there in a few years. These boats aren't real common here in Tulsa, OK. and once again, thank you all very much for your help.
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sherlock9c1




Posts : 2373
Join date : 2009-05-28
Location : Huntsville, AL

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 26, 2013 9:57 am

1) yes but you'll have to find a shop willing to do it. Most junkyards give a warranty for this exact reason.
2) For a geartrain-only inspection (no valvebody), 1-1.5 hours. Pay an hour extra for valvebody, accumulator and servo inspection and a few bucks in parts as that most likely will require seals.
3). here and here.
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yakko

yakko


Posts : 185
Join date : 2012-03-06
Age : 69
Location : Wappingers Falls, New York

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 26, 2013 10:57 am

Hey, It looks better and better just to pull your tranny and have it rebuilt. The transmission is one of the most important things to have in new shape. Check the side port for pressure.
That will give you a good idea where you stand. I have heard Lucus transmission oil does some wild things for aged transmissions. Just a poor mans fix though.
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yakko

yakko


Posts : 185
Join date : 2012-03-06
Age : 69
Location : Wappingers Falls, New York

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 26, 2013 11:02 am

Hey Sherlock9c1 have you found any cracked sun shells in your rebuilds? I'm going to do a transmission soon. I'm thinking of going for the Beast!
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sherlock9c1




Posts : 2373
Join date : 2009-05-28
Location : Huntsville, AL

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 26, 2013 12:40 pm

Yes, cracked sunshells are fairly common on b-cars (moreso on heavier trucks). There are a number of options nowadays including a reinforced no-name sunshell from Taiwan that my supplier swore up and down that she'd never had any comebacks on. I used a few of those because they were cheap, never had any issues that I know of. The beast one is HEAVY and some folks claim that it was not balanced and occasionally caused driveline vibration, unlike the factory units which are balanced.

Honestly, from a tech perspective, the Sonnax smartshell is the best thing going, as it relieves load on the rear planetary gear's captive Torrington (roller) bearing. I have one and it's significantly lighter than the Beast. Although it is more pricey, I would recommend it.

smart shell.

Before I get this thread any more off topic, I highly recommend Sonnax's 4L60E-HP-01 kit. I just put on in my '94 RMW's new transmission, and I've heard very good things from those who've used it in B-cars.
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Olds Weighty Eight

Olds Weighty Eight


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Age : 56
Location : Memphis, TN

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PostSubject: Re: little help please?   little help please? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 26, 2013 1:00 pm

When we got into my OCC 4L60 years ago I not only had a cracked sunshell, the die-cast aluminum input drum was rife with fractures emanating from the input shaft spline. Replaced that and put the Beast shell in.
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