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 Tire Rubbing

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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 3:53 pm

Hey everyone, I need some ideas of where to start the diagnosis here.

Pertinent history: Owned the car about a year, 150k miles, only put 1000 miles on it since purchase, old tires and showing bands on inside of passenger side (PS) front. Two weeks ago I changed upper ball joints, center link, and idler arm and then got the firestone lifetime alignment, new (slightly larger) tires (245/55r18). The guys had a hard time getting it right because even after several adjustments and test drives, the car still seemed to pull right slightly. They did tell me that the PS front was previously adjusted to maximum camber for some reason. Both the technician and the mechanic seemed competent and the car did not seem to pull by the time I left firestone.

Complaint: the front right is rubbing on the inside of the fender when I hit bumps. I don't think that it is a simple tires are too large issue though because from what I read, my tires should fit just fine. Plus, the driver's side (DS) isn't rubbing. I've noticed that the PS is protruding further out in the wheel well than the DS, almost as if there were a wheel spacer. I am not sure if the DS is inset or in proper location. All my body panels seem to line up nicely and no known hx of a collision. Additionally, the PS front doesn't always look like it is pointed straight when the steering wheel and DS wheel are straight.

I've put about 2500 miles on the car since the alignment and new tires.

Ideas on where to start? Upper control arm bushings?

I'll get pictures when the snow melts.

Thanks, guys!
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Fix Until Broke



Posts : 168
Join date : 2019-04-05
Location : Southeast Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 5:43 pm

When you put the new suspension/steering components on - were the rest of the components inspected? How did you decide to replace what you did?

Don't just throw the parts cannon at it - figure out what's wrong and fix it.

Some simple checks with a tape measure can tell you if your toe is in the right neighborhood - Do this with weight on the wheel and the car level. If you drive the front up on ramps, then jack the rear up to the same height.
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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 5:49 pm

Firestone dx'd the center link and idler arm and then I replaced them. I mean, I assume they looked at more than just that, esp. when they couldn't get it aligned. When doing the ball joints, everything else looked okay.
Trust me, not a part cannon guy. I don't have the budget for that. Not sure where to start though as this seems very odd to me.
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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 5:53 pm

Tire Rubbing 110
Tire Rubbing 510
Tire Rubbing 410
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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 5:54 pm

Tire Rubbing 210
Tire Rubbing 310

Should be enough for you to get the idea.
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Fix Until Broke



Posts : 168
Join date : 2019-04-05
Location : Southeast Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 6:02 pm

Sorry about the parts cannon comment.  It might be worth a 2nd opinion somewhere else?

Without pictures of the components or seeing the car - we're just guessing with you.

From the pictures above it does look a bit "off"

Check the toe - if it's within 1/16 front to back, that's not likely the problem.

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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 6:09 pm

No need to apologize. No offense was taken.

What components would you even looks at? I just don't understand how the entire wheel could be offset... its almost as if the whole body is shifted, but if that were the case, wouldn't there be other evidence? That led me to think of the control arms being perhaps bent? seems unlikely as well.
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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 6:11 pm

I know that the inner wheel well is loose. I removed the bolts because the tire was rubbing on the heads and I didn't want to gouge my new tires. I'm on the road for work and away from home.


Last edited by HendersonRacing514 on Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fix Until Broke



Posts : 168
Join date : 2019-04-05
Location : Southeast Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 6:24 pm

Take some pictures when you get back to the car, check the toe and let us know what you find.

Get some pictures of the upper control arm/frame interface on both sides of the car.

Check out the control arm bushings too?

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Rev Bob



Posts : 386
Join date : 2016-05-24

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 6:32 pm

If it was OK before and now rubs, it kind of points to the camber shims being way off, unless they were compromised previously to address the rub. You would have seen that on the old tires by one side of the tread being worn a lot more than the other.

Snow sucks.

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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 6:33 pm

I'll try and get some measurements to back this up, but just eyeballing the camber is spot on. There is some negative toe with the wheels pointing out. This is more so on the PS than the driver's side as the driver's side seems to point straight when the steering wheel is straight.

The tie rods seemed just fine. I have previously inspected and greased them. I'm sure that Firestone looked at them as well. The stearing is much tighter now as well after replacing the centerlink and stuff.
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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 6:35 pm

Rev Bob wrote:
If it was OK before and now rubs, it kind of points to the camber shims being way off, unless they were compromised previously to address the rub. You would have seen that on the old tires by one side of the tread being worn a lot more than the other.

Snow sucks.

Razz  yeah, it has its moments.

I am thinking this issue was already there so they shimmed the camber so the tires didnt rub. Seems like an odd "fix", but who knows.
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booster



Posts : 251
Join date : 2020-04-21
Location : Andover, Minnesota

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 7:48 pm

It could have a bent frame on the that side, most likely the lower where the lower arms attach. Not common, but happens from a side hit. The uppers would have been adjusted to be the right camber with the out of position lower if that was the case. Or maybe the lower is the wrong part for the car or bent.

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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

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Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 72
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 11:30 pm

The cars are notorious for having the body crooked on the frame. I would not be surprised if that is your main issue. My DS tire hits the fender, but I know I pushed the front end to the right at one point. Have you lowered the car at all? If so, that is part of the cause of the rubbing, as well as the body crookedness on the frame. The only way to remedy that is to loosen all the body mounts, and shift the body until the tires are symmetrically spaced. The Impalas will accept a 255/50/17 in the front without rubbing, but those tires are 1 inch shorter than the stock RMW tires. The Impala also has about a 1 inch drop compared with the RMW.

I noticed that the tires you bought are substantially larger in diameter than the stock 235/70 15 vs. 245/55/18. yours are .6 inches taller than the OEM tires, and 2 inches wider. I do not know the offset of your wheels. The stock offset is +6mm. If your offset is less, and with the wider and taller tires, that could be the makings of tire rubbing.

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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2021 11:43 pm

Fred Kiehl wrote:
The cars are notorious for having the body crooked on the frame. I would not be surprised if that is your main issue. My DS tire hits the fender, but I know I pushed the front end to the right at one point. Have you lowered the car at all? If so, that is part of the cause of the rubbing, as well as the body crookedness on the frame. The only way to remedy that is to loosen all the body mounts, and shift the body until the tires are symmetrically spaced. The Impalas will accept a 255/50/17 in the front without rubbing, but those  tires are 1 inch shorter than the stock RMW tires. The Impala also has about a 1 inch drop compared with the RMW.

I noticed that the tires you bought are substantially larger in diameter than the stock 235/70 15 vs. 245/55/18. yours are .6 inches taller than the OEM tires, and 2 inches wider. I do not know the offset of your wheels. The stock offset is +6mm. If your offset is less, and with the wider and taller tires, that could be the makings of tire rubbing.

I don't know the offset as the wheels came with the car. I can believe that the tires are larger and that would cause some rubbing, but the DS seems to be just fine... I am also sure there is some sagging going on with the old springs in there which doesn't help matters.

It sounds like I really need to get it on a lift or high enough I can see well under there and assess for frame damage or other suspension asymmetries... No easy answers so far. I really hope this is amendable.

I appreciate the insight.
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

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Age : 72
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeMon Feb 15, 2021 1:42 am

I would check the offset first. If it is a "0" offset, that would be the issue. You do not have to put on a lift to check that.
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HendersonRacing514

HendersonRacing514

Posts : 57
Join date : 2020-05-27
Location : Boise, ID

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeFri Feb 26, 2021 11:43 pm

Fred, assuming all wheels to be the same offset, why would it only rub on the PS is offset were the issue? Not challenging here, just seeking to learn.
By the way I was able to crawl under there and visually inspect. No obvious damage or mismatched parts from what I could tell.
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

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Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 72
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSat Feb 27, 2021 9:00 am

The body is on crooked, as usual.
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booster



Posts : 251
Join date : 2020-04-21
Location : Andover, Minnesota

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSat Feb 27, 2021 9:31 am

Has anyone moved the body over without a lot disassembly, or is that in the impossible range?
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

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Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 72
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: Tire Rubbing   Tire Rubbing Icon_minitimeSat Feb 27, 2021 9:45 am

It has been done. You must loosen all the body bolts, including the core support, and shift the body until it is aligned properly. You may have to loosen the horizontal adjustment bumper support bolts as well. You only need to move it about 1/4-1/2 inch, so it is not a lot of movement.
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