alignment specs?

I completely rebuilt the front end of the wagon, reused the springs, and it needs an alignment.

It's needed an alignment since we got the car, but the suspension was pretty worn so we didn't bother... It has worn the inside edges of the tires pretty badly. New tires also going on the car before the alignment.

Now that I got it all back together are there different specs from the factory settings we should tell the alignment people?

As much caster as you can get with .3 to .5 degrees more on the right side.

If at stock ride height the upper control arm will be angling down from horizontal so I would use 1/8 to 1/4 degree positive camber and equal both sides. If you are lowered or have a tall upper joint in place (like I do) and upper arm is horizontal or angling up I would use 1/8 to 1/4 negative camber. The difference is because the initial movement on compression is positive in the first case and negative in the second case. I don't like the idea of having the angle change from plus to minus or minus to plus in the early travel of the suspension.

Toe in at 1/16" to 1/8" with new front end parts.

You can get inexpensive camber/caster gauges on ebay, and a box of shims from Harbor Freight. I saw your rebuild thread, and since you are stock, the specs are in the FSM. I would take it to a shop for a toe-n-go. I would go for a 1/16" toe in. Always watch your tire wear after an alignment. Get a C/C tool that can be magnetically stuck on the end of the spindle with the dust cap removed. Do your work on a level area, and roll it back and forth after making an adjustment to allow the tires to settle/unload.

booster wrote:

As much caster as you can get with .3 to .5 degrees more on the right side.

If at stock ride height the upper control arm will be angling down from horizontal so I would use 1/8 to 1/4 degree positive camber and equal both sides.  If you are lowered or have a tall upper joint in place (like I do) and upper arm is horizontal or angling up I would use 1/8 to 1/4 negative camber.  The difference is because the initial movement on compression is positive in the first case and negative in the second case.  I don't like the idea of having the angle change from plus to minus or minus to plus in the early travel of the suspension.

Toe in at 1/16" to 1/8" with new front end parts.

All stock ride height, aside from however much the original springs may have sagged. I think the MOOG upper ball joint is slightly different from the original stock one, but I didn't specifically get a tall one.

What do you think of this info on ISSF: https://www.impalassforum.com/threads/alignment-snafu.258165/#post-2495206

Fred Kiehl wrote:

You can get inexpensive camber/caster gauges on ebay, and a box of shims from Harbor Freight. I saw your rebuild thread, and since you are stock, the specs are in the FSM. I would take it to a shop for a toe-n-go. I would go for a 1/16" toe in. Always watch your tire wear after an alignment. Get a C/C tool that can be magnetically stuck on the end of the spindle with the dust cap removed. Do your work on a level area, and roll it back and forth after making an adjustment to allow the tires to settle/unload.

I have no intentions of doing more than the basics of making the car drivable to the shop... It needs everything checked and adjusted, the alignment was off before I started the work. The wife works at a car dealership and there are a few techs there that know what they are doing.

rcktpwrd wrote:

booster wrote:

As much caster as you can get with .3 to .5 degrees more on the right side.

If at stock ride height the upper control arm will be angling down from horizontal so I would use 1/8 to 1/4 degree positive camber and equal both sides.  If you are lowered or have a tall upper joint in place (like I do) and upper arm is horizontal or angling up I would use 1/8 to 1/4 negative camber.  The difference is because the initial movement on compression is positive in the first case and negative in the second case.  I don't like the idea of having the angle change from plus to minus or minus to plus in the early travel of the suspension.

Toe in at 1/16" to 1/8" with new front end parts.

All stock ride height, aside from however much the original springs may have sagged. I think the MOOG upper ball joint is slightly different from the original stock one, but I didn't specifically get a tall one.

What do you think of this info on ISSF: https://www.impalassforum.com/threads/alignment-snafu.258165/#post-2495206 

It looks like there are two sets of numbers there but most is OK, although having more on the right than left is good for the caster not even like the second set. I prefer the numbers I gave to those in the link, and in particular, the tolerances they give are way to big. Cross caster should be in the .3 to .5 degrees with the right higher but those tolerances could have more on the left. I like the camber setting small and very equal side to side so both sides between 1/8 and 1/4 degree positive and never with one positive and one negative. I was a bit surprised that they were getting 4 degrees caster, my Buick was limited to about 2.5 on one side and 3.0 on the other until I modified the upper control arms.

If you are going to go to a shop for an alignment, just put it together, and drive it there. 5 miles will not ruin the tires, unless it is so far out that you can see it by just looking at it.

Fred Kiehl wrote:

If you are going to go to a shop for an alignment, just put it together, and drive it there. 5 miles will not ruin the tires, unless it is so far out that you can see it by just looking at it.

Shop is also putting on the new tires.

She had the new tires put on and the car aligned today



might have to go somewhere else...

Not what I would want.  Too much cross camber and one side plus and one minus.  You lost camber and the cross camber is backwards.  Zero toe is not the best place to be, it needs to be toed in by 1/6" at least for directional stability.  Looks like the tech didn't know how to do a shim car and gained you nearly nothing over original, on average.

Typical "in the green" computer alignment we see way too much of and is why I had to start doing my own at home.

yeah, he basically did the toe and go...

If it drives straight, and the tires have good wear patterns, I would leave it alone. If you want more caster, move a 1/16" or 1/8" shim from the back to the front on each side. The original camber and caster looked fine, it just needed a little toe adjustment.

I set up a friends caster and camber, and the idiot at the alignment shop made it less desirable. The tech could have just set the toe, and it would have been excellent.

So hard to find anyone to do a proper alignment!
Got a recommendation for a good alignment shop and they couldn't do the work. He was all ready to go and excited to do the job. The heads he has won't work on the rear of the wagon due to the shape of the quarter panel. He recommended a shop nearby and they turned out to be a bunch of jerks and then only dicked around with the toe and had no print outs... Car still seems to drive OK but we are still looking for a place that will actually do the proper job.

The guy using the system that can not do the rear can do the front without the rear. The rear can't be adjusted anyway. You can get a camber/caster gauge on ebay and do your own camber and caster on a flat parking lot. The specs are in the FSM. Then go to a shop, and get the toe set (toe-n-go).

ps. Do not try to use the disk brake as a reference. Get a large washer (fender washer with larger center than the axle nut) and put it on the end of the spindle, then attach the magnet to the washer (you may need a short stack of 3-4 washers depending on how thick they are). The magnet should have enough strength to hold both to the end of the spindle. You can just remove the dust cap to attach the tool to the end of the spindle. I do mine that way, and never have the mechanic change the setting. Checking them takes about 20 min per side max, then you can use the book to make the adjustment in one shot. You can also make a custom alignment at the same time.

You can also get expensive ones that will fit the end of the spindle.

If you want a "0" camber, you can do it with a "bullet level" that will fit inside your rim. As long as the level is vertical, you can check for "0" on the "plumb" bubble. Always check the level for true, by rotating it around the vertical axis on a plumb surface before attempting the camber setting. You can get a rough idea of your caster by turning the wheel at 45 deg and using a protractor to measure the angle to plumb.

Traditionally the head mounting is vertical, but since the heads are free to rotate on the head mounting device, you can turn them 90 degrees so they clear the skirt.

Not all setups are the same so this might not be applicable.

They guy in the picture who did mine is getting out of the business after ~40 years while his health is still decent.  He's really good, knows what he's doing, what works/doesn't and will set up the alignment however you ask.  He was out for ~6 months a year ago when I needed to have my 94 wagon aligned so I went to the other local shop - They charged full price, adjusted the toe, but when I asked about the caster/camber he said - "yeah, that car has those "shims" and I don't know how to adjust those so I left it alone".  On one hand this is appalling that an alignment shop that's been around for over 15 years doesn't know what to do with "shims", but on the other hand, at least he didn't try to adjust it and screw it up.

Could you post a little bigger picture?

That better Fred?

Works better for me, now I do not have to move the frame 4 times to read it.

The heads they had were different than what is in your pic. They grabbed the outside of the tire and sat against the rim, instead of clamping to the edge of the wheel. Looked like they would hit on the inside and outside of the fenders in the rear.
We might go back and see if he'll do it using only the front wheels...

It's kinda funny how this 'old' technology has become such a lost art, vehicles used shims for decades!

They also used cams since the 50s or 60s. I had a 63 Dart with cams to set the camber and caster.