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 Basic Principles of Auto AC

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scoffman
buickwagon
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buickwagon

buickwagon


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Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Empty
PostSubject: Troubleshooting (or why do I need gauges if they won’t tell me the amount of charge?)   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 21, 2014 6:44 pm

Troubleshooting (or why do I need gauges if they won’t tell me the amount of charge?)

Refrigerant is considered a condensable, not a compressible. That is to say, the more refrigerant you put in a closed system, the more liquid you get. The pressure does not increase unless the temperature increases. Each refrigerant has a very specific relationship between pressure and temperature. Knowing this, the pressures can tell us a lot about what is going on inside the system.

Under normal conditions with the system not running and everything at an equalized temperature, the static pressures at both the HP port and the LP port are equal to expected pressure at ambient temperature as indicated on a temperature/pressure chart for that specific refrigerant.

Once the system is running, as described above, the system divides itself into two halves: the High Pressure side and the Low Pressure side, each with a port to monitor the pressure. Once running, typical pressures for R-134a are LP =30-31psi, HP 204-210psi. R-12 has a narrower range, typically LP = 32-33psi, HP=185-190psi.

The above is rule of thumb only. Actual normal pressures may vary by ambient temp and humidity. Reference should be made to the R-12 performance chart or R-134a performance chart for greater precision when deciding if a pressure should be considered low, normal or high under the exact circumstances. The same goes for the vent temperature – a system in perfect working order might blow near-freezing air out the centre vent when ambient temperatures are 75°F and RH is 40 or 50%, but might only achieve 70°F when the mercury climbs over 90° and humidity approaches 100%.

LP low, HP normal to slightly low.
Probable causes:
1. Incorrect adjustment of LP switch (note: some vehicles use a  TXV valve control to perform the function of the orifice tube used in the B-bodies. The symptoms associated with the orifice tube would apply, with modification, to the TXV valve in those vehicles)

2. Restriction in the low side of the system. EG: plugged orifice or screen.

3. Moisture in the system (may freeze at orifice inlet, causing very cold inlet).

To verify between 2 and 3, turn off AC and allow to stabilize for 15 minutes, then turn back on. If gauge reading immediately goes to abnormal condition, the screen is probably clogged. If the gauge readings are normal for a few minutes, then goes abnormal, it is probably excess moisture.

LP very low to low, HP low
Probable causes:
1. Low refrigerant charge
2. Clogged inlet screen
3. Defective or plugged orifice tube
4. Moisture in the system (as above)
5. High-side restriction in the high side before the orifice tube (eg: crushed condenser tube).
Loss of refrigerant is usually due to a leak, although all systems leak a tiny bit as a normal condition. R-134a systems are usually more sensitive to the correct charge than R-12 systems. R-12 systems usually have a sight glass, and low charge will show up as bubbles in the sight glass. The compressor will usually cycle rapidly, as there is insufficient liquid refrigerant available to supply the compressor intake. The evaporator outlet line may also be warm, as there is insufficient refrigerant to keep the evaporator full of liquid.

LP low, HP high to extremely high.
Probable cause:
1. Restriction in the high side of the system
2. excessive oil charge
In the case of a restriction, it could be anywhere from the compressor outlet to the fixed orifice tube. The closer to the compressor, the higher the high-side gauge pressure will be (because the refrigerant has less time and space to cool).  Probably a kinked or bent line or tube. A marked temperature change will often mark the location (as it acts like an orifice tube) with the cooler side downstream of the restriction.

Excessive oil charge may result in vibrating or pulsating hoses. The oil acts as both an insulator and takes up space. The compressor must work harder against higher pressure and the lines may vibrate as the refrigerant is pushed through a pool of oil in a line. The outside temperature of the high-side line might be cooler than the temperature/pressure chart would indicate as the oil is preventing heat transfer from the refrigerant to the line.

LP high, HP low
Probable causes (electrical):
1. compressor LP cycling switch
2. PCM pressure sensor
3. ambient air temperature switch
4. engine coolant temperature sensor
5. throttle position sensor

(mechanical)
6. defective/misadjusted clutch
7. defective compressor

The compressor may or may not be running – look closely at the centre hub. If it is not turning, or not turning continuously with the pulley then there is an electrical problem or a clutch problem. If it is turning, it is probably the compressor itself or a mechanical problem with the clutch.

Disconnect the LP cycling switch connector (on the accumulator). With a piece of jumper wire, briefly short the two wires and verify if the compressor starts. The switch is adjustable, using the small slot-headed screw inside the connector. The switch can also be replaced without evacuating the system as it has a Schrader valve beneath it.

Using a scan tool, verify the AC pressure as seen by the PCM and compare the reading to the actual measured pressure. If the indicated pressure is much higher than the measured pressure, the PCM may be cycling the compressor each time the sensor hits the high limit. Similarly, the PCM will shut down the compressor if it detects an overheated engine, full-throttle operation, or low ambient temperature.

If the clutch fails to engage, only engages when travelling uphill or only engages when the centre is tapped then the clutch gap may be excessive and should be reduced. The clutch coil may be burnt out or shorted. A shorted coil will draw excessive current and usually blow it’s fuse. An open coil can be determined with an ohm meter. A slipping clutch is rare, but can occur if a rivet or arm has broken and it will make a racket. You won’t need gauges to figure out what’s wrong if the clutch is slipping.

Once you have ruled everything else out, the only thing left is a worn out or damaged compressor. Unless someone else worked on the system and forgot to reinstall the orifice tube.

LP high, HP high to extremely high
Probable causes:
1. Air (or other contaminants) in the system
2. Overcharge of refrigerant
3. Excess oil in system
4. Condenser fins clogged or obstructed or debris trapped between condenser and radiator
5. Defective cooling fan(s)
6. Overheating engine
7. Incorrect refrigerant

An overcharge of refrigerant will often result in a cool to warm evaporator outlet pipe and while cooling will be poor at idle, it may be OK on the highway. Air in the system can be very similar, but can sometimes be identified by turning the system off while watching the gauges – the pressure will drop 20 or 30 psi very quickly, then taper off very gradually as the two sides equalize.

Poor cooling of the condenser (fans, obstructions to airflow) can usually be temporarily corrected by misting the condenser with a garden hose and sprayer. The HP will usually plummet to near-normal almost immediately when the water hits the condenser.

An overheating engine causes additional heat load, keeping the condenser warm by radiation.

Air contamination can result from improper charging practices of course. However, one Florida study suggested that as many as 25% of commercial AC shops have contaminated recovery equipment, probably by servicing vehicles after the owner tried and failed. Similarly, the owner may have tried to recharge the system with some other refrigerant. If the shop does not test the system contents with an expensive refrigerant identifier, the contaminants get spread to successive customers.


Last edited by buickwagon on Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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buickwagon

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PostSubject: R12 Performance Chart   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 21, 2014 6:45 pm

R12 Performance Chart


RelativeAmbient Low SideCentre DuctHigh Side
Humidity    Air TempPressure    TemperaturePressure
%°F°C     PSI°F°C     PSI
20702229404150
802729447190
903230489245
10038315714305
30702229426150
802730478205
9032315111265
10038326116325
40702229457165
802730499215
9032325513280
10038396518345
50702230478180
8027325312235
9032345915295
10038406921350
60702230489180
8027335613240
9032366317300
10038437323360
707022305010185
8027345814245
9032386518305
10038447524365
807022305010190
8027345915250
9032396719310
907022305010200
8027366217265
9032427122330


Last edited by buickwagon on Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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buickwagon

buickwagon


Posts : 958
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Location : Muskoka, Ontario

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PostSubject: R-134a Performance Chart   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 21, 2014 6:46 pm

R-134a Performance Chart


RelativeAmbient  Low SideCentre DuctHigh Side
Humidity     Air TempPressure     TemperaturePressure
%°F°C     PSI°F°C     PSI
20702223426190
8027305010250
9032355412300
10038375714330
30702223426200
8027305111280
9032355513310
10038375815335
40702223436200
8027315211285
9032365614320
10038436418370
50702223436200
8027335413300
9032396016340
10038476921385
60702223436200
8027365614315
9032436418365
10038557826375
70702226468240
8027385815325
9032476720380
10038
807022304910260
8027406016340
9032497222380
907022325211275
8027416217345
9032


Last edited by buickwagon on Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Principles of Auto AC   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 21, 2014 9:38 pm

Exactly what I said!Bet you are a blast at a party.Lot of effort went into this and its easier for me to understand than the manual,thanks a bunch Dwayne!
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buickwagon

buickwagon


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PostSubject: Re: Basic Principles of Auto AC   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 22, 2014 6:50 am

Flasheroo wrote:
Exactly what I said!Bet you are a blast at a party.

Psst. See that guy all by himself in the corner, the one that came in the old station wagon? Don't make eye contact unless your AC is broken. He'll go on about it all night.  Laughing

Actually, most of the work seemed to be getting the tables to format properly. Maybe the moderators could investigate TinyMCE for the WYSIWYG text editor at the next upgrade? Please?
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scoffman

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PostSubject: Re: Basic Principles of Auto AC   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 22, 2014 9:14 am

I don't know if this is forum legal or not but Here is a great reference from www.AutoAcForum.com on what type of oil, and how much refrigerant is required for vehicles. It appears to be all inclusive. I used it as a guide when re-doing the retrofit on Ms. Roadie this summer.

http://www.autoacforum.com/speclisting.pdf

Mods if we can't link this info please just delete my entry on this thread thanks.
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buickwagon

buickwagon


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PostSubject: Re: Basic Principles of Auto AC   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 22, 2014 10:36 am

They got that listing from Four Seasons -- the numbers in the 2 right hand columns are Four Season's part numbers for oil. So they don't hold any copyright on the material.

A very useful forum though.
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brokecello
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Principles of Auto AC   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 22, 2014 10:51 am

Thank you! Making a Sticky!

Chris
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Principles of Auto AC   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 22, 2014 11:24 am

Informative thread, thank you for all the work!

As to the editor updates, those aren't controlled by us since this software is provided free.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: Basic Principles of Auto AC   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 22, 2014 1:44 pm

so if my sponge is absorbing and is not compressed, do i need to flush?
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Sprocket

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PostSubject: Re: Basic Principles of Auto AC   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 22, 2014 4:45 pm

great thread, I only read a couple parts though as I've done at least 5 or 6 systems now. Interesting reading on the HC stuff...
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PostSubject: Re: Basic Principles of Auto AC   Basic Principles of Auto AC - Page 1 Icon_minitime

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