No Low Beams

See latest post as the darn problem has come back!



I have a 95 Fleetwood, got it a few months ago and it has been working great.
As it got dark tonight I noticed that the parking lights came on with the twilight, but no head lights.   Tried pulling on the headlight switch but no change.  Tried the Hi Beams and they work either with the switch on or just the Sentinel.   Turn car off and on, no change.

I have been commuting a few miles to work all week but it's been daylight.  Last used the headlights two weeks ago when I left town on Friday night and they were fine.

All the other lights work, parking, turn, cornering lamps, etc.  
I doubt both bulbs blew at the same time.  Where to check first?  I would think the high and lo beams are on the same fuse?

As a side note, twice since I got the car when I have started it the dash stayed black for a minute before coming on.  Once was about 3 days ago (but that has worked perfectly today).

thanks

oh it does have a Gary's harness in it...

It can not be the fuse, or the lights would not work at all. They all go through the same switch on the steering column. The twilight sentinel goes through the central control module The pins are A10 (PPL wire), B3 (Lt green wire), and B12 (black wire) on C1, and C16 (black/yellow wire) on C2. There is a headlight relay on the IP relay center, and a headlight relay in the Central Control Module at pin A1 of C1 (black/red wire). The photoresistor is on contacts C3 (black wire) of C2, and B4 (green/black wire) of C1.

All that said, the only thing that controls the high beam and low beam in common and connected directly to them is the headlight dimmer switch. If the high beams work, and the low beams do not work, the high/low beam switch on the side of the column is not working on the low beam side. The car does not control the high and low beams separately. The Central Control Module only controls the headlight relay, and it controls the power to both the high an low beams through the headlight dimmer switch. You also control the headlight relay with the headlight switch. If the high beams work, and you can use them in both the TS and manual mode, and the low beams do not work on either mode, it can only be the headlight dimmer switch. I believe you need a 3/8 inch socket to remove the switch. It has to be adjusted so that the rod from the high/low beam (turn signal/multifunction lever) actuates it when the lever is pulled toward the driver.

I'm not a strong believer in coincidence either, but check the dang bulbs before tearing apart half the car. It's my first rule of troubleshooting: check the simplest and easiest possibilities first because a) they're usually the problem and b) they don't cost much in time or money.

Assuming the bulbs check out OK, I suspect that Fred is on the right track -- look for the point where the high beam and low beam circuits diverge.

I'm not familiar with the differences of a Fleetwood, and in particular, how "Gary's harness" changes the factory configuration but could it not also be the relay itself? Burnt contacts on the low beam connection? How about any connectors between "Gary's harness" and the factory harness? I assume GH is heavier wiring with a short connection path to the battery for reduced resistance. Does GH plug into the stock wiring? Is there an added relay or two involved, maybe actuated by the factory harness to supply power to the respective circuit?

If GH is a plug in affair, perhaps a quick check would be to temporarily unplug it, restore things to factory configuration and see if the lights work then -- that would at least isolate your problem to either the factory wiring vs the added harness. Alternatively, you could at least check the interface with a voltmeter or test light to verify whether or not power is making it as far as GH from the factory stuff.

Google suggests this is "Gary's Harness" for the Fleetwood: http://innovativewiring.com/iw/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/HL-FW-HARNESS.pdf

I see it comes with two relays and plugs into the factory harness. That's definitely where I'd start investigating. I can't seem to find a wiring diagram for his harness, but in the description of the 2-relay Fleetwood harness I note the following: "This will also allow you to keep your low beams on with your high beams." That has to mean that one relay is for low beams and one relay is for high beams. Your issue could easily be a bad GH low beam relay -- a quick check is to simply swap them and see if the problem swaps too.

However, if you have his 4 relay harness, then the problem is almost certainly not a relay -- the odds of 2 bad relays are even smaller than 2 burnt out headlight bulbs.

Also, from the looks of things, the odds of 2 burnt out headlight bulbs are significantly higher with GH than stock factory harness, as the bulbs will be getting greater voltage, running hotter, etc.

I am not familiar with Gary's Harness, but if it has a separate relay for the low beams in it, that could be your culprit.

Fleetwood has only Gary's battery cables. What your describing happened to me once with that car. Just wiggle the headlight/dimmer switch and the lights come on fine.

Chris

Happened on my 94, and only when it was really cold. It was indeed the dimmer switch. Swapped it out and cured the problem.

Bill

after spending most of the day in a 148 degree (no exaggeration, I measured it) attic putting in a new antenna rotator for my Mom, I'm bushed. I wiggled the switch and no dice. Probably done for good now. Will pull it in the morning and see if it's the same as the rmw one I have on hand, otherwise back to the JY if they still have the 93 FW that I picked last week.

i pulled headlight switch today and of course it's caddy specific....going to try and make then boneyard tomorrow at lunch

Headlight switch procured.....ended up sending 100 bucks though ..

Broke my cluster bezel last night so the was 8 bucks then a cluster for 30 (ouch!) A trunk pull down motor some dash trim and a nice grey arm rest. From how clean the car was and the oil change sticker on the windshield said next change 63k, I'm hoping I got a nice low mile cluster! Damn 12 bucks in core. Fees and another 10 in environmental fees. Sheesh

well not the headlight switch... more to follow

Sprocket wrote:

Headlight switch procured.....ended up sending 100 bucks though ..

Broke my cluster bezel last night so the was 8 bucks then a cluster for 30 (ouch!) A trunk pull down motor some dash trim and a nice grey arm rest.  From how clean the car was and the oil change sticker on the windshield said next change 63k, I'm hoping I got a nice low mile cluster!   Damn 12 bucks in core. Fees and another 10 in environmental fees.  Sheesh

And people wonder why prices are so high for the used parts I sell. Did you count the entry fee and the sales tax?

Fred Kiehl wrote:

And people wonder why prices are so high for the used parts I sell. Did you count the entry fee and the sales tax?

Before LKQ bought this yard the same amount of stuff would have been half that. I figure close to 20% in 'fees'

LKQ does raise the cost. This weekend everything will be half price (but the fees will not).

25.99 for a new switch at Advance and all is well

six months later and I'm back to the same issue again! Last time in addition to buying a new switch in the steering column, I also replaced the headlight/dimmer switch on the dash with one from a 82K car.

I'm assuming the one I bought was a Chinese one, but seriously....wondering if their is another issue causing the switch to fail.... Was driving the car last night in the dark and poof, my headlights went out. had to drive home on the Hi-beams again. What a PITA.

Before I go spending more $$ on another switch, anyone have any other ideas??

Is it your high/low beam switch on the column? If so, you could get a Caddy one with FTP. You have to swap the high and low pins in your connector, to allow the highs to be used for the FTP function, and you have to add a pin for a hot at all times wire for the FTP hot wire. The pin can come from another headlight connector, because it is the same as the others. Look for a large gauge orange wire...There is a wire on the other side of the column that I spliced into. 

It is an easy mod while you are under there anyway.

yeah I'm pretty sure it's the one on the column that I replaced only months ago.

If I pull the stalk toward me halfway like I'm going to switch on the Hi-beams, the lows come on and when I let it go back they go off again.

Either it is not adjusted correctly, or it is toast. Check the adjustment first.