Back, with a unique older 455-swapped Wagon!

Hello, All!

Finally, after almost two years, I have another wagon.  This time, I have a job that can support it, and other vehicles to drive if it has issues (and with its fuel consumption, I don't think I can daily drive it).

Current fleet is: 2003 Cadillac DeVille DHS, 1986 Jaguar XJ6, 1990 Chevrolet Suburban Silverado R1500, and.....this:

The Suburban is rusting quickly, and will probably hold together through the winter, but that's it.  A new hauling vehicle was being planned for, but then....

My father called me about 3 weeks ago, with a curious question:

"Would you want a 1982 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon....that had a 455 dropped in it?"

Well, you can guess my answer, but it was followed with "I don't have any money now."

He said "Let me worry about that."

10 days later, a car showed up on the back of a car hauler.

My father had found it, in the paper, while at a truck stop near Golden Valley, AZ (he's an over the road truck driver).

The car came from the factory an Olds Diesel 350 with a Turbo 350 3 speed Non-OD transmission, factory tow package, and lots of options (electric locks, power windows, cornering lamps, lots of chrome trim, power driver's seat, power rear window, AM/FM/Cassette with power antenna, and arm rests with shoulder bolsters.

The car has 105k miles on it, and was owned by the same family, actually passing up the generational chain to the grandmother and grandfather

As we all know, the Olds Diesel was a flop, but this one soldiered on until 2000, when the owner decided he wanted to do something interesting with it.  He was an "old race car guy who owned speed shops in SoCal in the fifties and sixties", according to the man who helped him build the motor, and he decided to put a freshly built Olds 455 in the car, along with converting it to gas.

The engine was professionally built with a Clay-Smith cam for torque, Edelbrock Performer 455 intake, Edelbrock 750CFM carb, C revision (factory performance) heads that were totally torn down and totally rebuilt with new valves/guides/seals, Accel Super Coil on top of the ignition, the block was bored .030 over, new pistons, rods, and lifters were installed (not sure of compression ratio), and the whole rotating assembly was balanced and blueprinted.

I was able to talk to the guy who helped him do the conversion, which was helpful in figuring out what exactly was done to the car.  He didn't remember exact details (he hadn't worked on the car in 8 years), but it gave me a sense of confidence that the work was done right and with excellent parts.

The whole car was painted in 2010.  When it was repainted, the factory color was used, and metallic was flake ground into the paint to give it a deep shine.

The gentleman who built the car passed away about two years ago, and his widow just didn't need the car anymore.  Out there, people commute 100 miles to work in Las Vegas, and no one wanted to buy it, and with fuel economy barely in the double digits, no one had any use for it.

She attempted to sell it on and off for almost 3 months, but to no real interest, though it was not on Craigslist.  We didn't even haggle over the asking price of $2100.  It was bought sight-unseen, other than a couple grainy pictures and the newspaper ad picture.

$1050 got it hauled from Arizona to St. Louis in three days flat.

It turned out to be beautiful.

These pictures were taken the moment it rolled off the truck, uncleaned, un-vacuumed.

















Also, I got rid of the Earnhardt sticker

So, I took it over to my local mechanic's shop who has no problem with the weird/obscure/strange.  They keep the Jaguar running, and the shop owner does weird things all the time, like drop a Subaru flat 4 into a Westfalia.

Anyway, they got to work checking out the car, and were amazed at the quality and care that went into the engine installation, but even more surprised at the cleanliness of the underside of the car.  There's nary a speck of rust on it, outside of the exhaust system (which is aftermarket, a pair of ceramic coated long tube headers running in true duals out the back/side).

They also let me check out the car myself, as I was curious to see what it looked like underneath-you can see for yourself how clean this thing is.  I don't think too many cars from 1982 look THIS nice, unrestored.  The hitch also needs to be cleaned up a bit.  It will be undercoated within the month by the local Ziebart franchise to ward against the harsh St. Louis winters (though it won't be driven much in the winter, anyway).  I intend to keep this car for a very long time.








Now, as with any 33 year old car, it has a few issues.  As of yesterday it has a new steering box, the header on the driver's side was sealed up, and it has a new lower right ball joint.  Right now it's getting new tires and an alignment (it pulls crazily to the right).  Only the front passenger power window and rear tailgate window go up and down all the way, the door seals are shot (but they don't leak, so YAY!), cruise control is out, there's a hanging caliper, and the fuel gauge doesn't work.  However, all those things can be corrected with time.  The aspects of a car that are hardest to fix, especially in a conversion like this, are excellent.  My father is bankrolling this whole operation, and fixing everything he deems important, which is everything except the back power windows, door seals (I can do those myself), fuel gauge, and cruise control.  I put a new air filter in it, and it starts much better.  Still not right, though.  Lots of little things to chase....

Worlds cannot express how grateful I am for this gift, it fulfills everything I like most-unique, amazing condition, and heavily modified.

That's all for now.

Great story and even greater score! Thanks for sharing your pics. Is it dark blue or black?

Very dark blue, here's a picture with the new tires that shows the actual color. Weird shading where I took the first pictures.

Shes' a beauty!

You my friend have a great father!

Nice looking wagon, do not drive it in the winter.


Tom C.

hey, that wagon looks really familiar.

Great color! You should be proud of that wagon!

Nice and Clean!!

big fun,..

Nice wagon. Congrats on a cool score and for ditching the over88ed sticker.

The car came from AZ so of course it has no rust under it

Appears to be Navy Blue Metallic, I may be a little fond of that color and it is hard to get good pictures of it. Congrats on the wagon!

Dam that baby is clean.

I feel like I should let everyone know that:

1. I am responsible for the shipping deal. You're welcome, Dave. Glad I could help.
2. I am also responsible for insisting the Earnhardt decal be removed. Yikes.


Hope you enjoy it, buddy.

Let be the first to start a round of applause for Stingroo. Bravo sir,bravo....

Good man, Ray.

Well done by everyone involved!

Stingroo wrote:

I feel like I should let everyone know that:

1. I am responsible for the shipping deal. You're welcome, Dave. Glad I could help.
2. I am also responsible for insisting the Earnhardt decal be removed. Yikes.


Hope you enjoy it, buddy.

What this man says is the truth!

Thank you again, Ray!  And thank you for your continued responses to my strange questions late at night about wagon issues.

I feel so much better driving a wagon around without an Earnhardt decal.


Here's an update:
It now has properly gapped AC Delco spark plugs, it previously had ungapped Autolites, the carb and kickdown cable were adjusted, we discovered that the fan clutch is bad, the compression is excellent, and it's still leaking power steering fluid even after the new steering box was put in.  We're having a fluid flush done, and pricing out an electric fan conversion.  Also, the alternator is a GM 10Si with a stripped top bolt hole, so that goes on the repair list, albeit further down.

My best friend's grandfather tweaked the carburetor, and it idles a lot nicer now.  A tach will tell us more.

It also has new brakes all around-the old ones were down to bare metal.

great wagon!

It is nice to see such a fine Classic in good hands. Congratulations and thank you for sharing the car and the story behind it!

Why not just leave the mechanical fan? It's simpler and cools better.

Antifreeze flush revealed nothing to be worried about in the cooling system, other than the known fan clutch issue, so we're sticking with the stock fan setup.

While I was told that the wagon got 12mpg, that was somewhat misleading-the first tank was 7.6mpg, and it ran out of gas coming back from the radiator shop's checkride. I felt miserable, but they just laughed about it. Put some gas in it and took it to the station for a fresh tank of 93 octane. I only put 7 gallons in it (which filled the tank) when I got it, so who knows what was in there or how old it was. Also, most of that tank was on bad spark plugs, and either idle or WOT driving, to shake issues loose.

I drove 97 more miles and decided to fill it up again. Most of that driving was city, in the heat, with the AC cranked. Maybe 1/5 true highway. 9.28mpg, that fillup.

My mechanic just got it today, and will hopefully be sorting out the rest of the issues (Driver's side power window, fuel gauge, wildly jumping temp gauge, checking timing, and some minor things. Hopefully adding a tach, too.

Congrats on your new wagon! That looks like a very nice ride!

Got the engine bay partially degreased (the most that 4 cans of Gunk-brand degreaser could do), and the engine bay looks a LOT better!  Trying to see what's leaking, and where from.

My friend Lew and I spent the better part of two hours cleaning this bay up, and hitting the brightwork with some nicer cleaners.  Looks way better now.  We finished up around 10, so the pics are dark.  Sorry.

I also got another engine video:
https://youtu.be/RAnh3OH7FBs

Tranny is NOT stock, made by a company in Arizona.  Monday I will call and see what I can find out about it.  Sorry I don't have any underside pics.  No light.  Looks a hell of a lot better, tho.




Well, the difficult starting issue has another update. The choke is definitely getting power, but it does not close. A manual movement reveals resistance in the system. Most likely stemming from the motor.

Also, the power steering leak has most likely been isolated. The break with your system is original back to the diesel motor, and uses hydraulic pressure from the power steering pump to drive a brake booster.  The whole engine bay was dry this morning, and after driving 20 miles, the steering shaft is soaked just hear the firewall, which is right below the brake booster system.  

I'm going to try and figure out if they conversion to a conventional vacuum assisted brake booster is economically feasible, or, how to source the factory parts.

I filled it up again, after driving another 80 miles-8.12mpg.

Any new wheels in the future?

stick with the hydroboost,...

The choke should close when cold but you need to step on the gas to set it,.vacuum should open it slightly when its running,.

This is what i would try when starting it cold,. i would pump the gas pedal to the floor 3 times then try to start it ,. see how that works,..?

I think you have two vacuum lines incorrect on your Edelbrock carb. The PCV should go to that big port on the front that is plugged, and the HEI dist vacuum should come from the small port on the driver's side, not the passenger I think you have the PCV going to the power brake port.



I would just run the choke wide open. You don't need it in the summer. I have a 1405 on one of my cars, and don't have the choke hooked up.

i have a nice offenhauser low rise dual four barrel setup with twin 500 carters for sale,.

fits under the stock hood,.

I never had any luck getting the chrome thermostat housings to seal either till i filed all the chrome off the sealing surface,..

phantom 309 wrote:

i have a nice offenhauser low rise dual four barrel setup with twin 500 carters for sale,.

fits under the stock hood,.

I never had any luck getting the chrome thermostat housings to seal either till i filed all the chrome off the sealing surface,..

For the moment, I am going to keep it as-found in terms of fueling and intake. I'm not carb-knowledgeable enough to keep two carbs running right for any extended period of time.

The Thermostat housing doesn't appear to leak, but time will tell, now that it's cleaner. Thanks for the offer, though!

jayoldschool wrote:

I think you have two vacuum lines incorrect on your Edelbrock carb.  The PCV should go to that big port on the front that is plugged, and the HEI dist vacuum should come from the small port on the driver's side, not the passenger  I think you have the PCV going to the power brake port.



I would just run the choke wide open.  You don't need it in the summer.  I have a 1405 on one of my cars, and don't have the choke hooked up.

INTERESTING. As stated above, I know less than nothing about carburetors. I'll verify this line routing tonight and post pics within the next couple days. That would explain quite a lot. Thank you for this incredible observations!

phantom 309 wrote:

stick with the hydroboost,...

The choke should close when cold but you need to step on the gas to set it,.vacuum should open it slightly when its running,.

This is what i would try when starting it cold,. i would pump the gas pedal to the floor 3 times then try to start it ,.  see how that works,..?

Hydroboost is staying, now that I know more about it.

I've tried pumping it anywhere from two to five times and starting it-it won't catch unless I open the throttle at least halfway while cranking.

Andebe wrote:

Any new wheels in the future?

Stock ones are staying-I'm actually on the hunt for crappier looking hubcaps so the nicer ones don't get stolen.

You're welcome. Re-do the timing when you move that dist vacuum line. I think the lines in the correct places could make a big difference. You may as well set the idle, and the mixture while you're at it.

"Stock ones are staying-I'm actually on the hunt for crappier looking hubcaps so the nicer ones don't get stolen." Cant live your life in fear!!!! Wheels make the ride...

vinyldavid wrote:

I've tried pumping it anywhere from two to five times and starting it-it won't catch unless I open the throttle at least halfway while cranking.

If it needs half throttle to start cold,. its set too rich,. when its cold loosen off the choke screws (3) on the side of the choke thermostat,. open and close the throttle once to set the high idle linkeage,. the adjust the choke flap to have about 1/4" opening,..by rotating the black housing,.when you have the right gap,. tighten the screws up again, and fire it see how it goes,.

Sweet car.we built a 89 caprice classic sedan for my wife with a tbi injected 455 olds she has alot of fun surprising unsuspecting camaro & challenger owners with it on the street & track.they make great sleepers & it even passed southern Ontario's etest .Have fun with yours

When I had my ’86 Buick Estate Wagon with a “built-up” 403 my favorite “target” was 5.0 Mustangs. I’d put ‘um to shame every time!

This car routinely got 17mpg on the highway, but it had a TH200-4R, which allowed the engine to run at low speeds at cruise, and a “tweeked” CCC system that ran full ignition timing advance at light throttle, at those low RPMs.
The 4-speed TH200-4R would be a “bolt-in” swap in an ’82 Wagon, if improved fuel mileage is a goal. But then, gas is cheap today!

Great story and great car.
Have fun with that baby!

Alllllllllrighty, so, it's time for an update that is long overdue.

The car only ran decently well (which was an upgrade from where it was, but nowhere near where it should be) for a couple weeks, then it started a steady decline. I didn't overheat it, abuse it, or in any way do anything untoward to it.

Shortly before winter 2015, it got REALLY bad. We put it in covered storage for the winter and moved it in March to a better storage location (after waiting for the first rains to clear the salt from the roads).

The decision was made to pull the engine and have it rebuilt, because it obviously wasn't anywhere near healthy, and sounded like it.

The engine was pulled about two months ago and torn down. by a local shop that often does Olds 455's.

They figured out why the engine was running like crap:

-4 cylinders were badly burned
-The carb is absolute crap
-It was blowing alternately blue and white smoke (I have video of both).
-The head gasket on one side had failed badly
-The radiator was 20lbs overweight (according to the mechanic), and badly clogged, with dexcool
-Rings were seized

There was also no oil filler (seriously). I had to pull the breather and drip oil down the valve cover. That's great if it's made to do that, like the 4.2L XK I6 in the Jaguar XJ6. Not so great when it takes 4 minutes to put in a quart of oil. And the rest of the engine leaked like a sieve.

So, 455 is being rebuilt....again. Properly this time, with full documentation (I left a nice point and shoot digital camera with the shop to document things).

The crank was cut 20 under during the previous rebuild, but only needed to be polished. There couldn't have been more than 10k miles on the car since the rebuild.

We ordered the complete Mondello performance package:
Edelbrock Aluminum heads
Cam
Intake
Rocker Arms
Pushrods
etc
And an MSD ignition system.

According to Mondello, it should make 450hp/540tq. We're leaving the existing Turbo 350 in there for the moment, and letting it run until it blows. If the rear gears are 2.56:1, they stay. Otherwise, they get swapped to 2.56:1. 1600 stall torque converter is being installed (or whatever's close to that that the shop recommends).

The mechanics building the engine recommend going with a new Quadrajet carb, so we're going with their recommendations-it's their job to make the car perform. We are also having them install a tach, fix the fuel pressure build problem (it builds so much pressure in the tank that it comes out the fill tube). and fix the turn signals (again).

This car is going to RUN now.

Picture I took a couple days ago attached.

That carb is not crap when the hoses are hooked up correctly

IMHO,. the edelbrock carb is far superior to the Qjet
you will have to re jet the quadrabog to flow what you need with the cam and heads,.and depending on which Qjet you get,. it will be under carb'd. it takes a really experienced guy to set up a Qjet.

If you are buyiing new parts I can tell you from my experience with olds motors,.that the best carb for performance and driveability is a carter 1000 thermo quad,. i,m not even sure if they make them any more,.but i would definitely look for one,. i'd plumb a wide band in the exhaust and tune it ,.
an 850 dp holley will work well too,. but it'll be real thirsty,..

smal dual fours are a great combination for street diveability,.but again,. it takes some knowledge to set them up ,. 2 500 cfm carbs will give you a great mixture distribution and all the air it'll need,.

Set your timing curve in the distributor to everything in by 2300,. keep it back of 36 deg total,.

Depending on your cam specs, i think the motor will do a little better than 450 flywheel horsepower,.
With the right set of headers and some collector extensions, the torque will be quite a bit better too i suspect,.

I would zero deck the block and keep the compression below 10:1,. it'll run cooler for a street engine,.

edelbrock heads are a good bang for the buck,.

i spent thousands of hours messing with tall deck olds engines,. even using honda connecting rods and offset grinding cranks to get some cubes,.some experiments were costly,.
i never had the budget to buy what i wanted so i spent a lot of time tuning,.

blue print your oil pump and use a double cover ,. talk to mondello about using his main bearing restrictors,.they will make the engine much more durable,.and a deeper oil pan with a good scraper is a very good idea,.

hope things go well for you,.

Glad to hear youre getting things straightened out,sounds like you had a real cluster f@%K on your hands. Im sure others would agree,learn as much as you can about your new engine set up. Read,ask questions,research what has worked for others. How will you use the wagon? Street,strip? Be and stay involved. Hate seeing people getting trapped into throwing cash into what could become a bottomless pit. Best of luck...

I may be late to chyme in but that is a nice clean wagon, with an interesting drive train.... I'm a bit jealous

This specific Edelbrock carburetor is crap. Its online reviews that I found were fairly horrid, and the choke motor was stuck anyway.

It has some sort of ceramic coated header on there, not sure what it is.

Mondello recommended a 750cfm Demon carburetor, but the people in charge of building the car recommended a Quadrajet, and seemed very confident that it would perform very well with it on top of the engine. The shop has been around for 40 years, with some of the same people in there for most of those years (because they're GOOD). I see an equal mix of classic and new cars parade through there, with universally excellent feedback from everyone I've talked to.

We're paying someone to build the motor correctly, and I believe that the final compression ratio will be below 10:1. I'm going to try and stop by today and see what the builder says.

vinyldavid wrote:

T
but the people in charge of building the car recommended a Quadrajet, and seemed very confident that it would perform very well with it on top of the engine.  The shop has been around for 40 years,

It's very interesting from my point of view how i often see people put their faith in somebody,. who is not a specialist in a certain area,. but they are sold on the fact that some one has been doing something for forty years,.
Joe mondello has been racing oldsmobiles since the late 60;s thats quite a long time,.nealy 50 years? he recommended a different carb than the Qjet,.i,d take his word over any general machine shop,.

I raced oldsmobiles back in the early 80's,. and i have quite a bit of experience with Qjet carbs,. and again my advice is its not the carb for this application,. unless its modified,. the accelerator pump capacity needs to be increased for a start for an olds and a 455 with any sort of cam,.not to menton you'll need different secondary rod hangers,. etc etc,. setting the air flap,. on and on,. Q jet is a complex carb,.
If you get the carb modified or tricked out to run right,. then it would work just fine,.

But as i,m fond of saying and at great boredom to most,.

do what you want,. you're gonna anyway,.

best of luck and let us know how you make out,.i,m sure your guys will take care of you,.

Ps,. i,ve built so many engines over the years i have honestly lost count,. and i don't really understand what 4 cylinders badly burned even means,.or how the heck that even happens in a V8,.
looks like i still have lots to learn,.

The shop has done Olds 455's before, and I talked with some of their longtime customers with Olds 455's. They were universally pleased with the work. This isn't taking an engine project to a shop that hasn't touched one in years, the last Olds 455 build they did was about 4 months ago.

I'll speak with the guy who recommended a qjet tomorrow if I can find him there, and see what he says about modifying one, or, what his take on it is. They also recommended the MSD ignition.

Mondello is dead since 2011, the people that bought his operation recommended the rejetted Demon carb. I don't know what Mondello used.

I'll try and get over there and dump the pictures off the digital camera I gave them for some photos of the damage. If they took as many pictures as I asked them to, it should be very visible.

Can't wait to hear about these "burned cylinders". That one's new to me, too.

Sorry to hear of the issues. Love the car, and that you left the Diesel emblems on the front fenders. Classic!

vinyldavid wrote:

Mondello is dead since 2011, the people that bought his operation recommended the rejetted Demon carb.  I don't know what Mondello used.

are you dealing with the california outfit?

phantom 309 wrote:

vinyldavid wrote:

Mondello is dead since 2011, the people that bought his operation recommended the rejetted Demon carb.  I don't know what Mondello used.

are you dealing with the california outfit?

Yes, I am. We bought the top end kit from them.

vinyldavid wrote:

phantom 309 wrote:

vinyldavid wrote:

Mondello is dead since 2011, the people that bought his operation recommended the rejetted Demon carb.  I don't know what Mondello used.

are you dealing with the california outfit?

Yes, I am.  We bought the top end kit from them.

There was controversy when joe died ,.there are two mondello named outfits,.

check out Mondello racing engines in Tennessee,. thats joe's wife,..

The cam you bought,. is it a flat tappet,.? what kind of specs?

phantom 309 wrote:

There was controversy when joe died ,.there are two mondello named outfits,.

check out Mondello racing engines in Tennessee,. thats joe's wife,..

The cam you bought,. is it a flat tappet,.?  what kind of specs?

As I understand it, the people that bought Mondello Twister are using the same basic products that Joe Mondello used himself. I've heard that the controversy centered around full engines and some customer support. I could be very wrong, though.

We got the JM-20-22 cam, which has the following specifications:
Intake Lift 0.496
Exhaust Lift 0.520
Adv. Int/Exh Duration 300/310
Intake timing at 0.050: 224 deg
Exhaust Timing at 0.050: 234 deg
Lobe Separation: 112 deg
RPM range: 1400-5800rpm

No need to pull vacuum at idle, I have the wonderful (when it works) Hydroboost setup off the diesel engine in there originally.

We also got the 4150 Mondello Posiflow intake. The entire package was recommended to us by whoever answers the phone there. Edelbrock said that we would have a 6+ week lead time (despite showing that there was only a weeklong wait) for the official heads, otherwise we would have ordered the heads from them and let the machine shop order everything else.

ALSO.....

I stumbled across this while reading online, a list of Joe Mondello's part recommendations for building Olds 455 Rockets.

"CARBURETOR Reworked stock Q-jet, Edelbrock Q-jet is hard to beat for
850cfm or Holley 0-4781 850cfm street economy, but Holley
double-pumper (manual trans), or delivers more top-end power
0-3418 855cfm vacuum secondary
(auto trans)"

http://www.442.com/tech/rocketattack.html

Here's the first picture dump so far, from the camera we left with the shop: