Let's get ISSF back on track

If any of you feel the way I do about the current state of affairs over at ISSF, then please do like I have PM Hack directly and voice your thoughts about the current state of moderation being imposed on the wagon section by an individual that has no respect for our wagons or us.

I was about to but just got banned.

I was in a back and forth with Eric the self proclaimed ISSF lawyer and he said it was no wonder I didn't have any friends. My reply was my friends are all clients and BAM you are banned for reasons to reflect on your actions.

Ground Hog Day or longer depending on my shadow I would guess.

Well I guess I will give it a shot.

Probably not a good day to make loud noise. It was always a day to leave Dad alone after a new years party. I should have factored that in to the equation I guess.

don't sweat it Lorne, even a hung over father has more maturity than a sober ISSF mod ufologist

buickestate wrote:

don't sweat it Lorne, even a hung over father has more maturity than a sober ISSF mod ufologist

Now that is funny right there I don't care who you are.

here is a copy of the PM I got from Scott in response to the PM I sent him. Both are here
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please provide an example of how he is breaking the rules. Link me to posts and threads please.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
There is a developing issue with one of your moderators on the wagon section of your forum. He is the cause for many wagon owners on this forum getting upset. He is not following your own forum's rules. I find it difficult to believe that you would permit such an idividual to moderate.

Prior to the recent actions of this moderator I found the wagon section pleasant, and open to ideas and conversations. It was the one of your more active sections. It now has been tainted.

I fear that many of the Good wagon folk are being turned away.

Pat

__________________
Scott Williams - Impala SS Forum Administrator

this is my reply:
Your moderator is being antagonistic and trying to provoke the wagon owning members of your forum.

This is taken directly from your own rules and guidelines"To maximize the usefulness and the enjoyment of this forum we ask that you adhereto a few simple guidelines:1 - No vulgar language or slanderous remarks. We should all behave like adults andshould take the "plays well with others" approach."

I'm calling him out for not playing well or being fair, making slanderous remarks.

example one
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=214543
this is very unprofessional behaviour. It is antagonizing wagon members. Please do read each of area 51's posts in this thread.

example two
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...=214427&page=5
Please read the two last posts in this thread, that is once again unprofessional and ventures into imaturity. Not to mention his antagonistic tone in his final post on this thread.

third example
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=214442
This thread was closed by area 51 with out a clear valid reason. Again your moderator antagonized the wagon memebers with his post that got response from wagon memebers that led to it being closed. the sad part is the original idea in this thread sounds like it could work and be fun.

I understand and can appreciate the fact that being moderator isn't easy but this person whom you appointed the wagon section to is not able to handle the task with wich you have left him. His actions and deliberate antagonism that he directs at wagon memebers requires your attention. you can catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar.

Scott, your friend Paul isn't up to the level that you require in a moderator. He does not play well with others.

i actually emailed scott williams (Hack) twice in the last three weeks ,. never have received a reply,.
once you,ve been banned you lose all credibility,.
he,s now stated publicly that i wasn't banned for what was said on the forum,. but rather for what was said in pm,s and e-mails,.he has banned many people in the last 6 months,. mostly on personal whims of his,.
Hack has never responded,.

i forgot to add that jimbeau has ratted me out as slakker 149 (actually my wifes screen name)



no edit function here?

phantom 309 wrote:

i forgot to add that jimbeau has ratted me out as slakker 149 (actually my wifes screen name)



no edit function here?

Edit top right corner of post.

And after reading all the posts in that stupid thread. Yours was one of the few that was right on point Nick.
Paul needs to take the chip on his shoulder and remove it. I am considering a nice drive to conneticuit and dare him to call me whiney or spineless again. I would love to show that f****r my version of spineless.
And jimbeau is another one. Him and a few others sit only in the misc section assing up peoples threads. They along with Paul, have no positive input into the b-body world. They just use ISSF for their own agenda. Maybe they were not held tight enough as babies, or held too tight, or maybe their wives or mothers are in charge in their lives, and that forum is the only place thay feel power and control.
What ever the answer, it looks like this forum is going to become more active. Which is ok by me. Like I said before, I have only held on because of the wealth of info, and you guys.
I will email Scott myself at some point today. Hopefully he does something.

There is a topic in the Misc section over there now. Nick brought it to my attention. You guys might want to post to that thread as well. I posted some quick thoughts just now while trying to refrain from calling Paul out as the immature power-hungry whack job that he is.

If we can, as members of that wagon forum, post to that thread and keep to facts I'm sure Paul will eventually show himself. Maybe that will help.

If Hack doesn't pay attention to Pat's well written responses to him then he is part of the problem as well.

buickestate wrote:

this is my reply:
Your moderator is being antagonistic and trying to provoke the wagon owning members of your forum.

This is taken directly from your own rules and guidelines"To maximize the usefulness and the enjoyment of this forum we ask that you adhereto a few simple guidelines:1 - No vulgar language or slanderous remarks. We should all behave like adults andshould take the "plays well with others" approach."

I'm calling him out for not playing well or being fair, making slanderous remarks.

example one
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=214543
this is very unprofessional behaviour. It is antagonizing wagon members. Please do read each of area 51's posts in this thread.

example two
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...=214427&page=5
Please read the two last posts in this thread, that is once again unprofessional and ventures into imaturity. Not to mention his antagonistic tone in his final post on this thread.

third example
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=214442
This thread was closed by area 51 with out a clear valid reason. Again your moderator antagonized the wagon memebers with his post that got response from wagon memebers that led to it being closed. the sad part is the original idea in this thread sounds like it could work and be fun.

I understand and can appreciate the fact that being moderator isn't easy but this person whom you appointed the wagon section to is not able to handle the task with wich you have left him. His actions and deliberate antagonism that he directs at wagon memebers requires your attention. you can catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar.

Scott, your friend Paul isn't up to the level that you require in a moderator. He does not play well with others.

Try to click on those links now. They are not there. They have been deleted. Talk about burying the evidence.

wow... I hadn't been on ISSF in a few days. and all I can say is WTF happened over there?

I think one of the main problems is that several members and possibly the founder do not appreciate or accept wagons and other non-impala's and in fact barely tolerate them. In recent months, this seems to have been exacerbated by the influx of new members who have no vested interest in or passion for the platform, but simply thought SS's were cool when they were in Jr. High, and can finally now afford one.

In the 4 years I've been on the forum things have changed a lot, and generally not for the better. Even before I had a wagon (and again now that I don't once more,) the wagon section has always been my favorite place to hang out due to the openness, friendliness and willingness to help not found in the other sections.

I just keep rereading everything I can find, and I have yet to read one instance of a wagon member saying or posting anything objectionable. I don't believe that is the problem, I believe that for one reason or another, Paul hates wagons. I understand that it is the Impala SS forum, but these people need to get off their horse and remember that "Impala SS" is a trim level option the Caprice Classic, just like LTZ, LS, or (oh noes!) Estate Wagon. Without the 1991 Caprice, there would be no 1994 Impala SS, and whether they like it or not, a Wagon was offered from the beginning of this body style. There are far more non-impala owners on that forum than SS owners, and I feel like we are marginalized, and more so lately than ever before.

I'm glad you guys have a roof envy section, cause until things get better, I'm done over there.

I do not know about the rest of you, but this is how I break it down.
I originaly joined ISSF back in 2000 under the name of IMPALARS9C1. Back then, I had already owned an impala or caprice since 94 starting with my then new Impala ss. It was cool to find a place to go and share thoughts and ideas about a car I loved.
Then I got out of it for about a year or two, when I sold my car and got a divorce. When I came back into Issf in 05, I came in with a new name IMPALADAKID. I bounced between there and a north east forum. Once I got my wagon in the fall of 07, I found the wagon section. This was a nice comfortable section, that I made friends in. There seemed to be a tight unity of nice folks who were not only willing to help out other but have social meets just to hang out. There was no fighting, name calling or "use the search button noob" coments. Infact it was the wagon section that pushed me to fix my car after the second engine let go, and when I thought the third one did too. But after some time to think, I decided to part ways with my wagon, because I am really not a wagon guy. But never once did it ever accure to me to leave the wagon section once I sold my wagon.
Now comes Paul Roswell. He has single handedly over the past month or so changed the atmosphere of the wagon section into something else.
I for one would prefer not to get banned from ISSF, but I think based on what I have seen there lately, I will start hanging here. I will only use the Issf for the vast info. I hope that we can have what we had over there here. And I think we can. Joe seems to deal with things real well here. And as the founder, he has given us a alternate place to continue to socialize and continue to help one another out.
I just want to get back to the root of why we are all here. The love of the automobile. I can do without the stupid soap opra.
I would like to make this my last post on this subject. I want to go back to seeing Pat's sedan nosed woody wagon.
So how about guys? Are we ready to get back to talking about cars, or do we need more time to deal with Paul and his crap.
I am fine with either choice.

Your less than super moderator.
Bill

I'm starting to think the attitude is coming from the top over there. Too bad. Here is Hack's response to the Misc Thread:

Quote :

"All this bitching and whining about Paul! Really! If ANY ONE of you had sat down and had a beer with man, you would not be bitching.

Direct? Yes.

Rude? Sometimes, but when you are dealing with a bunch of grown men that start to act like a bunch of high school girls, what do you expect?

Federico? I could bring him back as a mod if you guys would prefer.........."

I've offered to moderate that section. I've made the offer before and nothing ever came of it. I'd be glad to do it to help keep peace over there. That'll only happen if the powers that be want to see this problem. Right now it seems like they're looking away from it.

This is the reply that I got from Scott this morning

Today, 02:14 PM
HACK
Founding Member Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Georgetown, Texas USA
Posts: 2,385


Re: There is an issue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The funny thing about this is that Paul e-mailed me 2 days before any of the wagon people to let me know that I would be hearing from ya'll. Now I am a wagon person also, even though I do not contribute much. I will have a talk with him. Have you guys looked back on the posts and could the group possibly antagonized Paul a little?


Quote:
________________________________________________________________________________


Clearly Scott is part of the problem.



I'm slowly pulling all of my threads and pictures off of his forum and posting those threads and pictures that I feel still revalent on this forum.

Good for you to offer Kevin,you would be well respected.

The way I see it has unfolded, at this point anyway, is the guys who for reasons that require no explanation(because there is no valid one) that ventured over to the Misc section have had issues with Paul. Myself and Nick went on as bad as 2 grown men could over there and had the thread closed.

As wagon guys we carried it to the wagon section where it was both laughed at and tolerated but for sure never moderated.

Since Paul has become the mod our history has come back to haunt us both and subsequently both are banned. The trouble is Paul has not shown any respect for the guys like we all know as a group, and he certainly isn't trying either.

So I think he is cleaning up the ones he can identify as trouble and let the dust settle. However he isn't there nor is he in the least bit interested in being there to properly moderate. I was never the same in the wagon section as the misc and he won't even take the time to recognize that.

Therefore if Frank says to Gerry wtf is the reason for a LS7 are you sick you mf*** Paul will go off like a firecracker not knowing Frank and Gerry communicate weekly by phone. Mark my words I tried to understand the man and it is like talking to a bank machine. you may get what you ask for ,just not know how much.

buickestate wrote:

This is the reply that I got from Scott this morning

Today, 02:14 PM
HACK
Founding Member Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Georgetown, Texas USA
Posts: 2,385


Re: There is an issue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The funny thing about this is that Paul e-mailed me 2 days before any of the wagon people to let me know that I would be hearing from ya'll. Now I am a wagon person also, even though I do not contribute much. I will have a talk with him. Have you guys looked back on the posts and could the group possibly antagonized Paul a little?


Quote:
________________________________________________________________________________


Clearly Scott is part of the problem.



I'm slowly pulling all of my threads and pictures off of his forum and posting those threads and pictures that I feel still revalent on this forum.

See there you go,Premeditated by Paul by saying you WILL be not MAYBE hearing from people. He had his mind set on his target and executed. I agree Pat,Hack is the spineless one over there.

Just signed up on this forum and just found it from a link over on the other forum, thanks poster!

Why would you want to get the ISSF back on track? Just stay over here!

How can we get everybody else to come over here too?

Might just happen on it's own anyway with all the crap going on over there.

I don't post much but do a lot of lurking just to learn, no LT1 here!

Clark

Hi Clark. This is the forum I was referring to when you and I were communicating on my thread. I just automatically thought you were aware of it. Welcome,Lorne

I know I'm new to you guys but..

Other than for info and such I will be posting here.

I cannot stand internet drama and thought I had found a board free of it, looks like I was wrong, lol.

Don't let me down here guys

94Woody wrote:

I know I'm new to you guys but..

Other than for info and such I will be posting here.

I cannot stand internet drama and thought I had found a board free of it, looks like I was wrong, lol.

Don't let me down here guys

Don't tell us what to do, or we will have to ban you.

I've stayed out of the fray over on ISSF, it truly pains me to see what is happening there. I think there are two problems. Unfortunately only one of them can be fixed, whether it gets fixed or not, who knows.

Here's my take on the problems for what it's worth. Get comfortable, it's a bit long.....

Problem one is the moderation.
I bought my first wagon right before the last 'big' scuffle in the wagon section. The wagon moderator was being complained about because he was moving threads that weren't wagon specific to the appropriate sections. Some of it was overzealous moving, some were legit. So he pretty much stopped caring. I can't say I blame him, some not so nice things were said. I was new (to the wagon section, not ISSF) so I kept my mouth shut. The wagon section was largely unmoderated from that time until a few months ago. A few months back, maybe more, I don't recall. Several wagon regulars said some things that were not quite appropriate and a few e-arguments began. It happens, oh well. Unfortunately the threads caught the attention of the mods, and one in particular. So, since then, the wagon section has been under some scrutiny. I respect the job a moderator has to perform, it's not easy, especially when you have people of all ages, and backgrounds playing int he same sand box. Some of what happened in the wagon section I agree with, some was unnecessary and/or handled poorly. I think the ISSF mods, well one in particular, needs to learn some tact in dealing with issues that arise. I also think that the wagon regulars need to be a little more thoughtful about what is said and posted. Internet name calling is inappropriate for adults, period.

Problem two is human nature.
The wagon section has grown. There are more threads and posts on the wagon section than the other three model specific sections combined! It's simply natural that as more people frequent that section, sooner or later there will be personalities that simply clash. Not everyone will get along, it's the way we are. In some instances we just need to agree to disagree and leave it at that. If this forum grows and attracts more members, eventually the same thing will happen here. The moderators here will eventually have to delete or lock a thread and at some point someone will get banned.

So, really, until we stop with the name calling and antagonizing, it's not going to get better. Obviously that's not the only problem as I've stated but we've got to start somewhere.

Okay, that's my .25 worth, YMMV and so on and so forth....

I like that Mike. it was honest and well thought out. As far as here I think Joe,Robert,Bill,and yourself will always have a pulse on this forum as founders.Having said that the sparks will be extinguished before an explosion takes place since the outcome we have witnessed is not attractive. I don't think you guys would ever put a non wagon owner in as moderator let alone a self proclaimed wagon hater.

It sure helps that I have met some of the members this past summer and that is the very reason I am even here.

On that note shoot me your adress again as I um,er.a can't access my messages over you know where, and I will ship those caps.

Maybe this is not the right thread to introduce myself, but I am a long standing member over on the ISSF side, mostly in the wagon section.

First let me say that the wagon section was probably the first place I tried that actually welcomed me with my, to some, strange attitude about what should power a car. Have been addicted to diesel for some thirty years. All the other forums, with the exception of the Infopop biodiesel site, treated me as if I had just done something nasty to their girl friend. The diesel sites seem to think that anything without knobby tires, lift kits and gun racks just didn't belong.

Perhaps I am a little peeved that the ISSF site has gone the way it has as I truly enjoyed it over there, but I am of the belief that moderation on a board should be limited to addressing the legalities, preventing spam, scams and identifying Nigerian Bank employees. In addition perhaps a little referreeing from time to time. The afore mentioned Infopop site has at least four times the membership and has accomplished much with little or no input from the moderators. I seven years I think there has been all of three bannings. The popularity of the site actually came about as a result of another site (Journey to Forever) that had an incredible dragonian attitude about it's members. If you did not agree with the founder, you were immediately banned, usually for life.

Yes it can get a little like a wild west show at times but eventually the troublemakers are identified and are either run out of town by the members or simply put on ignore. The reality is that on the ISSF site we are only a sub-group, a large one mind you but a sub-group non the less. We are there at the discretion of the moderators and if they for some reason take a scunner against us (or perhaps our cars) then there is not much we can do about it.

I for one am glad that this site has ben established. Perhaps the ISSF wagon section can be co-herced into moving over here where at least we are welcome. Maybe go back ocasionally to see whos still there and get them out to Wagon Fest.

Bill

convert2diesel wrote:

Maybe this is not the right thread to introduce myself, but I am a long standing member over on the ISSF side, mostly in the wagon section...

Good to see you here, Bill!

What kind of gas mileage to you get with that diesel?

welcome home Bill!

Hey Bill! You are more than welcome over here buddy... I enjoyed looking at your wagon at WF08... Hope you will be there this year...

Wagon Collector wrote:

Good to see you here, Bill!

What kind of gas mileage to you get with that diesel?

I can get thousands of miles on a gallon of gas (only use it as emergency cleaner or in my lawn tractor). As far as "fuel mileage" is concerned that really depends on how I use it. When I first did the conversion four years ago, I had the small bore injection pump installed and could get up to 38 MPG (IMP), assuming I was a good boy, drove only on secondary roads and kept to 55-60 MPH. Two things changed over the years. In an attempt to get more power, I replaced the pump with the newer large bore pump with the intent of turbo charging it (never happened) and that cost me about 2 MPG. The second was the implementation of ULSD (ultra low sulphur diesel) and that cost me another 1 or 2 MPG. Changing back to the small bore pump and doing some little tweaks should get me back up to around 35 or 36 MPG. As I no longer use the car to tow my trailer, I may very well do that.

Thanks for all the welcomes

Bill

Wow, we have a lot of Bills here, lol

Welcome and I think a diesel B Body is cool as hell.

convert2diesel wrote:

Maybe this is not the right thread to introduce myself, but I am a long standing member over on the ISSF side, mostly in the wagon section.

First let me say that the wagon section was probably the first place I tried that actually welcomed me with my, to some, strange attitude about what should power a car. Have been addicted to diesel for some thirty years. All the other forums, with the exception of the Infopop biodiesel site, treated me as if I had just done something nasty to their girl friend. The diesel sites seem to think that anything without knobby tires, lift kits and gun racks just didn't belong.

Perhaps I am a little peeved that the ISSF site has gone the way it has as I truly enjoyed it over there, but I am of the belief that moderation on a board should be limited to addressing the legalities, preventing spam, scams and identifying Nigerian Bank employees. In addition perhaps a little referreeing from time to time. The afore mentioned Infopop site has at least four times the membership and has accomplished much with little or no input from the moderators. I seven years I think there has been all of three bannings. The popularity of the site actually came about as a result of another site (Journey to Forever) that had an incredible dragonian attitude about it's members. If you did not agree with the founder, you were immediately banned, usually for life.

Yes it can get a little like a wild west show at times but eventually the troublemakers are identified and are either run out of town by the members or simply put on ignore. The reality is that on the ISSF site we are only a sub-group, a large one mind you but a sub-group non the less. We are there at the discretion of the moderators and if they for some reason take a scunner against us (or perhaps our cars) then there is not much we can do about it.

I for one am glad that this site has ben established. Perhaps the ISSF wagon section can be co-herced into moving over here where at least we are welcome. Maybe go back ocasionally to see whos still there and get them out to Wagon Fest.

Bill

Hi Bill. Nice to hear your keyboard. I was just about to wish you and yours a Happy New Year when I had a malfunction with the higher ups on ISSF. Happy belated.

I had a Funeral today in that nice little drinking village with a fishing problem where your wife is from . I actually was thinking of you folks and wondered if you were south or not. Lorne.

Hi Lorne:

Right back at you re Christmas and New years. Hope you and yours enjoyed the season and hope you had some time to reflect on your naughty behaviour over on that other board. Going to have to go back and accuse a mod there of being a methanol sucking, gas guzzling power freak so I can be banned and join your exclusive club .

Our southern trips don't normally happen till April. Not sure if it is in the cards this year though. Maybe the Gods of financial benevolence will shine upon us but only time will tell. Running around trying to get the caddy roadworthy. Hope the LT1 has whats needed to tow the new trailer. It should as it is rated higher then the Vortec in the Burby but with 200 K on the clock? Had to sell the Burby as it turned out to be a money pit.

Going to be strange buying gas again. Maybe that will spur me on to complete the 6.5 turbo conversion in time for WF09.

Thats enough of thread highjacking for now. Lets see if we can can get the ISSF site back on track but also lets try to promote this one. With the right people, both sites can be successful.

Bill