What's the high end value for these wagons?

Last week, I sent a message to the guy selling this: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/5863017394.html wagon to say how nice he did it, but also to express that I'm sure it's way beyond my price range..... I mentioned that the only trade-able vehicle I have is my 68 Burb, but that it is literally far less vehicle than his wagon. He expressed some interest but I had to back away for lack of resources.....
How does anybody actually determine a fair value on one of these wagons that has had $25k spent on it (?) when a really nice example usually tops out around $5- $6K?
Any thoughts?

looking for a RMW as 1st car here. I have multiple nationwide-radius autotrader and cargurus searches set up and what I've noticed is that the "average condition" wagons with 100K+ mileage and a little rust here and there go around $5,000 and the nicer ones (good condition, 80K miles or less) go around $8,000 to $12,000.

Here's a screenshot of one of my searches for reference.

Part of the problem of determining the value is that, on a 20 year old car, so many things wear out. The value lies in how many of them have been fixed. I think that's why a low mile car brings such high money, since there is in theory no work to do. I would think, after looking several times on Ebay that a 94-96 wagon 100,000 ish miles that is really clean will bring anywhere from $4-6000. I paid $5200 for my factory non wood 96 Roady 5 (?) years ago. Zero rust southern car, very clean. Now, 120,000 miles, but totally re painted, new white wall tires, and it looks new. Along the way I've done all new a/c system, and assorted other normal maintainence items. If my wife still wants to sell it (and I'm hoping to change her mind) I'm thinking the $6000-7000 range would be a good price.

atlantadan wrote:

I have been offered $10k cash for my wagon by someone in-person at a local event, and I knew the person was good for the $ if I said "ok". (125k, zero rust, arrow straight, good paint, etc..) That was before I did even more work on the car, so I suspect it could get even more now for the right buyer. That's the catch though with these cars - finding the right buyer. There's a fish for every hook, but you have to know the market and the real value of what you are selling.

For reference, this is a running list of what has been done to the wagon. I have a complete 3.42 rear-end rebuild sitting in boxes in my closet (Eaton posi, Yukon gears, Moser axles, bearings, etc...) that'll be added to the list once I get around to installing everything.

And as some don't seem to understand, what you have put into the car has nothing to do with what it is worth. I've got much more than $10K in the car now and I will never see it back - but I really dgaf either. That being said, I am certain that $10k is the 'floor' of what the car could pull.

YMMV

Hmm...maybe I'm low in what mine will bring if I choose to sell it? Besides the perfect rust free dent free (other than a dime size dent on the roof that would pdr) body with new paint my interior is virtually perfect too. I replaced the worn leather skins with much nicer skins from a northern Roady so it looks great. If you just looked at the car, and heard how it runs and drives, and didn't look at the odometer, it looks like a car with 30,000 miles, not 120,000. And, mine is 100% stock. But, like you say, a fish for every hook. I've had lots of people stop me to talk about it, but no one has ever asked to buy it. I really don't want to sell it, but technically it's my wife's car. Either I sell this, or sell my driver, or hope I can convince her to keep the "fleet" we have now since they are all paid for and running/looking good. She says she wants a car "from this century" but what fun is that?

Is it a stock wagon that they think is worth $25k?  Or is it a custom wagon that they modded up and want $25K for?  

 I guess I get annoyed with the ones that keep a running total of every autozone part they added and assume it = more value.  If they are legitimate mods (and not basic maintenance) like engine, trans, rear end, suspension, brakes....that adds some value to me personally when I look.  Stickers, graphics, tint, big stereo, wheels and fancy paint don't really do anything for me because it does not improve drivability...just personal preference...and I'll want to do my own thing anyhow.

If you are the kind of person that puts waaay to much money into your hobby car (raises hand) you likely know you will not recoup those dollars. Personally, I don't put that money into my wagon to make it worth more....I do it to make it more enjoyable for me.  I'd rather trade someone down the line if I had to move one....but that is just me.  

 Chris

New crate LT1 and six-speed manual and I actually like the paint and wheel.... His blue velour interior is nice too...... I guess what I'm asking is: At what point in doing a complete job on one of these cars do you pass the point at which you can expect to recoup your $$$.....
In my area ( soCal/Az/Nv) you can buy nice wagons "private party" all day long for under 8 grand, most well under $5k......At $25k, this blue wagon would be hard for a buyer to justify and impossible to insure for anywhere near that....
I raise this issue because I see it as a cautionary tale of where I shouldn't go on a project myself... and ever expect to get my money back.... The way I see it, this guy, (like I'd do) built a car to a spec that he considers "the coolest ever"..... He built it for himself!.... and in that context, it doesn't matter what a guy spend as long as it makes him happy..... When somebody goes to sell their "baby" though, a harsh reality of actual value sets in.....

atlantadan wrote:

Coming from owning/maintaining older M-series BMW's (E30 M3 and E34 M5) I actually DO look at the 'basic maintenance' level stuff as value-add. Obviously, not on a dollar-for-dollar ratio, but if someone cares enough to use ACDelco stuff over Duralast crap, that tells me a lot about not only the car's components, but also how it was cared-for. A well maintained car with receipts adds value to those that know what to look for.

Yeah, good point...I can see that actually. I guess it would depend on the car and price range for me. The more I'd spend...the more I would prob not want a bunch of DIY repair work done by the owner.

AzDon wrote:

The way I see it, this guy, (like I'd do) built a car to a spec that he considers "the coolest ever"..... He built it for himself!.... and in that context, it doesn't matter what a guy spend as long as it makes him happy..... When somebody goes to sell their "baby" though, a harsh reality of actual value sets in.....

#NailedIt

AzDon wrote:

At what point in doing a complete job on one of these cars do you pass the point at which you can expect to recoup your $$$.....

Acquisition, generally.

A quality restoration/modifcation always costs more than the actual value of the car.
And a car that has been personalized like this one generally is worth less.
I don't want to sound negative, it looks like a very nice car. But not worth 25k

Around here, a nice, rust free roady wagon with 100k k miles is around 5k .I bought my 2 owner 95 tow pack car for 3400.00 , 120k miles,no rust, nice leather, needed some general maint. Taken care of.

Ed

jasonlachapelle wrote:

AzDon wrote:

At what point in doing a complete job on one of these cars do you pass the point at which you can expect to recoup your $$$.....

Acquisition, generally.

It is so weird to see the crazy prices on ebay for the 94-96 Roady wagons. There is one today with 21,000 miles for $25,000! I guess the super low mile cars will bring much more money, and it makes sense. But that much more money? It would be fun to have a crystal ball and see what the value will be 20 years from now. They didn't start to be collectible until fairly recently, and everyday attrition, plus cash for clunkers really thinned the herd. I guess when you consider that not too long ago a VW bus and a Buick Cabalaro were nothing very special, anything is possible.

atlantadan wrote:

AzDon wrote:

At what point in doing a complete job on one of these cars do you pass the point at which you can expect to recoup your $$$.....

jasonlachapelle wrote:

Acquisition, generally.

Truer words rarely spoken!

Expecting to get your money back on a car is unrealistic, unless it is a true "investment worthy " car like an original Shelby 427 Cobra or Mercedes Gull wing coupe. Don't expect our wagons to be big buck items at the Mecum auctions any time soon.

Mark 96 Roady wrote:

It is so weird to see the crazy prices on ebay for the 94-96 Roady wagons. There is one today with 21,000 miles for $25,000! I guess the super low mile cars will bring much more money, and it makes sense. But that much more money? It would be fun to have a crystal ball and see what the value will be 20 years from now. They didn't start to be collectible until fairly recently, and everyday attrition, plus cash for clunkers really thinned the herd. I guess when you consider that not too long ago a VW bus and a Buick Cabalaro  were nothing very special, anything is possible.

When I see this type of pricing,I feel like its just a conversation starter. Unrealistic,sure...but it sets a tone for what they are looking for. Or maybe its like the old saying,"lets throw some **** on the wall and see what sticks."

Low mileage can have drawbacks...... Like maybe the car had something expensive or hard to solve and it either sat or was never driven far from home..... Or maybe like it's had a low mileage gauge panel installed.....
I've currently got a 06 Trailblazer that I overpaid for because of low miles (less than 50k).... It has obviously had a new driver door installed and I've found other reasons to say HMMM... as well

getting the right car,. or getting the right buyer,. thats the trick,.

low mile cars are good for bragging rights,.nothing more,. high milers don't get to be high milers unless they are reliable,.

Cars are like women,. how do you value them,..?

only after you've driven them hard for a while will their true value become apparent, and that will depend on how much aggravation they may have caused,..nothing worse than acquiring something pretty thats not reliable,.

There was one at Barret Jackson WPB last year red with flames. Myself, Ray, Tim, and Sean all looked it over and came up with a price of about 5-6K (now we didn't see under the hood but from the interior, figured it was stock as the interior). I went for over 9, but we all figure it was bought by someone who isn't familiar with the cars.

As a car salesman told me once, "There is an ass for every seat".

I know of two wagons that had 20K+ in them and they both sold for less than one I just mentioned, so you never can tell.....

This thread just made me feel really good about mine! I bought my 94 caprice classic wagon less than 2 years ago with around 34k miles on it, one owner and garage kept since day one for $3600! I thought it was a fair price since I always wanted one but a lot of people told me I overpaid for it. Never owning one I never would have paid more than 4K, but honestly since driving it everyday since I would pay quite a bit more if I found another like it. I never expected to get attached to a station wagon (especially since I've always drove muscle cars ...58 Ford 2 door post, 63 galaxie 500, 71 olds Cutlass, 68 fairlane fadtbavk, and a few others) but I'm pretty sure this one is the keeper!

What looks to be a nice '96 RMW with just 32K has an asking price of $12,500.

https://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/cto/5964557079.html

Here in Italy, obviously, there are not so many RMW... when i was searching mine, there were 3 on Autoscout24:
-this piece of rust (low km, rust holes on inner fenders, faded paint, not-running engine, no italian documents) at 3300€ (for comparison, now Euro is nearly 1:1 with Dollar): http://ww4.autoscout24.it/?atype=C&mmvmk0=16&mmvmd0=15771&mmvco=1&fregfrom=1993&cy=I&zipc=I&zipr=200&ustate=N,U&sort=threetier,price&results=20&page=1&event=addB||firstreg&dtr=s
-the one i've bought (1996 Collector's Ed, perfect paint, good engine and mechanics, a broken mirror and 200k km) at 11000€
-a show-quality low km (36000km!) white one, perfect in every little thing, but at 25000€. This one also seems it has been sold.

It depends on where in the country you are located, and the condition/mileage of the car. I bought my spotless '92 Olds Custom Cruiser in North Carolina and then sold it a year later here in Texas and doubled my money. That said, I WISH I'd kept it.

My 96 Roadmaster wagon is worth around three times what I bought it for in 2006, at least here, if not a bit more.

Hang on to them, they go up every year if kept in nice shape!

-Mike

You're right... in my case, the price reflects also the "exoticness" of a car... but only for show-quality ones. Otherwise the "rule" said that an USA car usually spot a lower price than an EURO equivalent. Because the average european guy think Euro cars are better made... but when you hit Autoscout and find that at the same price you can buy a sh*tty Mercedes E Class or a Cadillac CTS, you feel clearly that something in the market is completely wrong

There are currently about a dozen very nice original examples of original, clean, and rustfree Roadmaster and Caprice Wagons at dealerships across the country with listings between 12 and 16K. A couple of these are at Gesswein in Milbank SD, a reputable dealer that sells a number of classic cars. Dealers may highball the listing price, but if they are asking $16,500, you are NOT going to buy that particular car for $5,000 from that dealer. While the average Craigslist car might go in a private sale for $5000 in OK condition, the best examples in dealerships and at larger auctions are being offered at substantially higher prices now. They are getting rarer, and prices are on the way up. It's still a matter of matching the buyer who understands the value with the seller. But, not all of the cars that you see offered at the high end are priced absurdly. Now, if you want to knock a car out of the above price categories really fast, make as many mods are you can, and make them conspicuous. The cars that are selling for the top prices are usually very close to stock, or at least appear so.

Don't know in the US, but in Italy and, generally, in Europe, as modifications, customization, tuning ecc. is 99% illegal, modified vehicles usually sell at lower prices. Exception to this rule is a good-taste LEGALLY modified car... that in Germany means you've done whatever you want to the car, then you have passed a TUV inspection that wrote all the mods in your circulation chart. In Italy you can do near nothing to the car... theoretically also a new paint job is forbidden, but is tolerated... then you can change interiors (leaving all the safety equipment -belts, airbags...- untouched), install audio, install privacy film on rear side windows and rear windshield -windshield and front side windows are forbidden-, change wheels and tires BUT with same dimensions as stock, install better brakes -of the same type: disc->disc/drums->drums- and approved exhaust systems. Some parts, like wheels and tires with non-stock dimensions and LPG conversions, can be road legal only after an inspection and the annotation in your circulation chart. Other mods, like e.g. an engine swap, is in theory permitted, but only with a veeery long and expensive iter, so people usually won't do it, or do it and don't talk about it to anyone
So, the point is:
-Stock car: regular price
-Road legal car: higher price but you must find someone that appreciate your work
-Not road legal car: lower price.