Has my 91 been converted to 134a????

For those of you following my various threads lately, I have my bright red 91 OCC ready for the street but the AC no worky anymore. Went to put my R-12 gauges on and see if I had any pressure and saw this:



No stickers anywhere on the car, but I'm guessing someone already converted it????
Never seen this adapter before (on right side of Accumulator/ receiver drier)

Again looked all over the car for a conversion sticker and there is none....phoo

Yup, that's the 134a adapter. Actually much easier to attach the charging hose, lol

DBeaSSt wrote:

Yup, that's the 134a adapter. Actually much easier to attach the charging hose, lol

putting on the R12 hoses isn't as bad as taking them off when it's charged , chilly fingers!!

So, I put my 134 gauge on and it didn't even bump Dunno if I should just do all the o-rings to start or pump it up and see how long it takes to bleed down....

probably go the latter as Big Lots had cans of 134a for 5 bucks....

I've had a car (or truck) take an entire can before the compressor would even start to cycle so if it's completely down it will take a while.

So are that sources for R12 still around? Or is it illegal to make, illegal to sell?

Illegal. However, there is this stuff called Freeze12 which is a direct (and legal) replacement for R12. I pick it up at my local parts store all the time.

Note: Parts store does NOT mean autozone or advance, they just give you dumb stares. Go to a real place like Napa, or similar, they'll have it or at least know what you're talking about.

What do you have to do to change to Freeze12 from 134a?

DBeaSSt wrote:

Illegal. However, there is this stuff called Freeze12 which is a direct (and legal) replacement for R12. I pick it up at my local parts store all the time.

Note: Parts store does NOT mean autozone or advance, they just give you dumb stares. Go to a real place like Napa, or similar, they'll have it or at least know what you're talking about.

I don't know if it's illegal anymore. We had this discussion on the Caddy forums, and one guy said he went to his AC shop and they still had the equipment for R12 and they could fill it. You can buy it if you're a licensed AC shop/technician, just like on Ebay. At least, this is what I understand.

It's illegal to MAKE, not to sell (if you are licensed). Plenty of shops have R12. Just call around.

Fred Kiehl wrote:

What do you have to do to change to Freeze12 from 134a?

Freeze 12, Red Tec, Duracool etc. are what is called "hydro carbon refrigerants" HCFCs, basically reformulated propane. Works as well as R12 (even better some say) but do require you to get rid of the CFCs. You can't mix the two. Fully compatible with any seals used in our cars but it is always a good thing to replace the reciever dryer and make sure one of the cans contain lub oil and one with the sealant (may plug up your leak).

If you don't want to get an AC guy involved, rig up an airline to the lowside fitting (on the reciever/dryer) and find a friend with a diesel truck. Run a vacuum line from the vac pump on the truck and let the diesel idle for about 20 minutes. Definitely a redneck method but it has worked for me in the past. Will only pull about 21-22 inches of vacuum but if the system has not been broken open, there shouldn't be much water in it so 21 inches should be sufficient. If you have cracked open the system for any reason, especially on a hot humid day, it is advisable to get your local AC guy to drag it down to 28 inches before you refill. Water and refrigerant don't like each other, nor does the compressor.

Read the label carefully as you need lots less then the 134 or 12. Use the gauge and try for the middle of the safe zone (kit should include a gauge). Don't push it as your compressor will start to hammer if you overcharge the system. Once you get into the safe zone, only add a little bit at a time then let it stabilize. With the system running on max, and stabilized, both the intake and outlet pipes going into the evaporator should be the same temperature.

Hope this helps

Bill

I was reading a review of this Freeze 12 stuff. Apparently it uses some funky fitting that isnt the same as an R-12 or -134 fitting. Is this true?

So do I understand correctly then, that for in my 93 that has the original R12, that I cannot simply "top off" the system with Freeze12, that the two are not compatible. If I have to get the R12 out any way, what's the point of having Freeze12 available?

Apparently I don't get it.

This answers some my questions about compatibility. I still don't quite get the fitting change past. It appears the connections on the hose is different, but I'm not sure if a new fitting simply goes over (and therefore attaches to) the low side fitting, or if the old fitting gets removed and replaced, and therefore the low side need to get drained first to do so.

http://www.freeze12.com/

lakeffect wrote:

So do I understand correctly then, that for in my 93 that has the original R12, that I cannot simply "top off" the system with Freeze12, that the two are not compatible. If I have to get the R12 out any way, what's the point of having Freeze12 available?

Apparently I don't get it.

You are correct. While the HCFCs are compatible with your equipment, you can't mix the two refrigerants. That is why the EPA and or the regulatory bodies are mandating that the fittings be different, so that you won't mix the two. I would steer away from the Freeze 12. Couldn't even find a MSDS sheet on it. Both the Red Tec and the Duracool products have been around for quite some time now and the recharge kits are available in either format (R12 or R134), at least at Wally World here in Canada. This stuff is reformulated propane and one of the most important properties is the "flash point". This property was the only one required for certification in Europe over 20 years ago.

Both Red Tec and Duracool state that the flash point is actually higher then both types of freon. Performance is equivalent to R12 which is good news for us as our systems really suck on R134, even up here. Duracool was designed to replace 134 but has the same performance as R12 without the head pressures created by R12.

Bill

so what I"m trying to figure out is what I should be putting into my system as not sure WTF was in there most recently. It was HOT today driving around.

When I bought the car it did blow cold, but I let it sit for about 8weeks once without running it and I guess some o-rings dried up....

What fittings are required for the Red Tec and Duracool? I currently have the 134a fittings.

The cheapest way is to see if you can find some 134 in the small cans as part of a kit and just try a recharge (try Wally World. I think I saw some on the shelf last week in Ogdensburg NY). Can't get them up here but below the 49th I believe you can still get it. Phone around. Make sure your getting the real R134 and not the replacement. Read the can. It has to say "contains CFC". If it says HCFC, then its the replacement.

If that doesn't work, then look into the new stuff.

Bill

THat was my Plan Bill. I have one can of 134a in the garage, and will get another and blow 'em in there. I'm just happy to have the car on the street bought it over a year ago and it's just been sitting. Of course I had to drop the other one from insurance...

In theory.. the fittings should tell you. It has one of three fittings... R12, Freeze12 ,or R134