WF09 - planning ahead to WF10

While it's fresh in our minds:

What worked:
1. Seneca Lake State Park. Nice place.
2. The parking lot at Fred's "new" shop. Great!
3. Lunch food was good as always.
4. No drag racing. It just always fizzles.

What can be improved (and how):
1. At Seneca Lake State Park, the Pavillion is far away from the cars. Can this be changed?
2. Have a well-defined cruise in the evening with printed maps that also have a "call home" contact #.
3. New awards (see below)
4. I don't know how many folks remember it, but I really, really liked the park in downtown waterloo that we used for the first two years. I don't know how many wagons we can fit in there, but it's just a nice place, near the water, and the pavillion is right there too.

New awards:
First, I'd set aside the lowest mileage, highest mileage, and "ugliest" awards, in favor of the following:
1. Best interior.
1a. Best interior mod
2. Best exterior mod
3. Best underhood mod
4. Best under-the-car mod
5. Best "GM should have done it this way" mod.
6. Best paint over 150,000 miles (for stock-ish paint)
7. Best paint under 150,000 miles (for stock-ish paint)
8. Best modified paint (like Matthimself456, SWT SS or that crazy cruiser)
9. Best wood trim.

My other concern is that a lot of these wagons are daily drivers (mine's essentially a winter car!) that just will never win an award. Not that I think everyone should win an award, but at least give them the chance to win something.

Well my opinion and that alone is anytime you can get 50 of these dinosaurs together in one location for a day it is a great accomplishment. Then to invite them to your home and serve breakfast for everyone is nothing short of incredible.

Fred and Kelly are to be commended for this event happening annually and I am sure they have their moments of doubt.

I deal with large gatherings at Funerals,plan (guess) food amounts and yes we even have a parade to the cemetery, believe me it is easier to watch than organize.

Having said that I can relate to the feeling of not meeting everyone I wanted to at WF 08. It wasn't a car show like I assumed and I spent way too much time detailing both at Freds and the park. I would make a point to mingle and meet everyone if I get another chance.That is what any get together is all about.

By now most on the forum know what they and others have so awards are irrelevant to me. Use that time for introductions and funny stories that everyone hears. I did find it hilarious what you all did to Frank and told him so.

I guess I am kind of trying to say don't change too much,if it works don't fix it.

Wish I was able to be there,Next year God willing, I will. Lorne.

If you start adding more awards...you will have to actually organize how the wagons are parked...class stuff I guess. Dunno. You *could* just have a section of wagons all parked together that want to be judged for awards. That might make it easier to vote and a little fun for the guys that like that stuff.

I (and I would be totally up getting these put together and made) think we should have those little dash plaques passed out to everyone. Like the ones you get at the Impala SS Nationals. That way we all feel like we got a little award

I too liked the smaller park we used at the '06 Fest....but I honestly think we would fill it up! Plus I remember a gravel section of the road. I know it did kick up a lot of dust.

Dinner was more $$ than I thought it would be for the two of us. $44.40 or something like that. But I have not eaten there since '06. I made sure to personally eat half of that roast beef though. So it was worth it.

Chris

More ideas:

1. What if we just scrap the awards, or just have a "best of show" with retirement, so previous wagons can't re-win best of show? It's like pulling teeth to get the ballots in anyway. Maybe it gets the same fate the drag racing did.

2. I thought the parts swap thing worked extremely well, but take it up one notch - setup a whiteboard with a marker, and put an "i need" section and an "I have" section. Then people can just peruse the list and decide what they want and know who to talk to. I can be in charge of this for 2010. I know we had a forum thread for awhile but nothing beats being there in person and some folks don't have forum accounts.

sherlock9c1 wrote:

More ideas:

I thought the parts swap thing worked extremely well, but take it up one notch - setup a whiteboard with a marker, and put an "i need" section and an "I have" section. Then people can just peruse the list and decide what they want and know who to talk to. I can be in charge of this for 2010.

YES! Very good idea!!!

sherlock9c1 wrote:

More ideas:

1. What if we just scrap the awards, or just have a "best of show" with retirement, so previous wagons can't re-win best of show? It's like pulling teeth to get the ballots in anyway. Maybe it gets the same fate the drag racing did.

2. I thought the parts swap thing worked extremely well, but take it up one notch - setup a whiteboard with a marker, and put an "i need" section and an "I have" section. Then people can just peruse the list and decide what they want and know who to talk to. I can be in charge of this for 2010. I know we had a forum thread for awhile but nothing beats being there in person and some folks don't have forum accounts.

Completely agree with both of these! I will admit I don't usually vote because I am there to look at cool mods and meet even cooler people

I also noticed how far away the pavillion was from the cars. Not sure how we could change that, unless we scoped out one of the pavillions with grass on either side so that we could all park closer.

As for the cruise, I believe it was a spur of the moment thing and would love to help plan something for next year. The cruise from the Rochester/Buffalo area seemed to work out well with people meeting us along the thruway.

The part's board could be filled out when you register and get your name tag. We will have to very carefully plan how to set up the board so it all fits but some headines to think about:

Forum Name
Real Name
Parts Needed
Parts for Sale/Price

We could take it one step further with parts. Set up a mini-flea market under a tent like Crovo had. Everyone who has parts to sell drops off their parts there with a price tag on them that has the name of the seller. All parts sellers take a shift manning the "parts tent". Sellers have a list of parts with list prices, and "Lowest" prices that stay with the tent and are consulted by the person manning the tent. When an offer is made, the boss consults the list, and if the offer is acceptable, the deal is made. The final price is written down on the sellers sheet, and the cash goes into the cash box. At the end of the day, each seller's sheet is totaled, and they are paid out.

I would love to be able to browse all the parts in one place! I really think that it would create much more interest than having parts scattered all over the place.

I'll volunteer for set up and first shift if others like this idea...

Jason.

I still think we need to use the signed roof rack idea for something For best sedan still? Or perhaps a raffle? $1 per ticket and money goes towards the track team or something.

I know I would love to have a signed roof rack personally....clear coat it and hang it up!

Man, I hate that I missed '09... sure looks like you guys had fun.

I do like the idea of the flea market. Parts availability will only get worse for these cars. Northern guys can bring down some nice non-sunbaked interior parts, trim pieces, and glass... and southern folks can bring up good rust-free stuff if they can fit them in their cars. A nice rust-free front inner fender well would probably be a good bargaining chip to a northerner.

As for dinner, cruises, etc... I guess I don't mind sitting around all day and hanging out. More beer drinking time. And for dinner, I think a catered affair at the park would be the bomb. There are a couple folks around here that cater pig roasts and such. Could be a fun time, depending on what the park will allow, etc. Afterwards maybe line up and take the long way back to the Microtel provided everyone is safe to drive.

Having said all that, these are minor tweaks. This is always a great event (Thanks Fred!) and once again I hope to see all my fellow wagoners next year!

brokecello wrote:

...
I know I would love to have a signed roof rack personally....clear coat it and hang it up!

Actually it'd be very cool to mount it on your wagon!

You would need one like this .



80% of all parts could be spoken for before wf as I have witnessed. Try sharing a room with Frank and about 3 sets of rims,a rear window and 3 bags of taillights from Fred. Thats just the bathroom.

Lorne,

interestingly, while I did sell a number of items at the fest, I still had a large group of items unsold, things which I consider useful to have around: PCM, alternator, water pump, mirrors, cornering lights, etc. Didn't get much interest on those things. And I had ZERO interest in rear glass even though they're not made anymore.

Joel I am sure I am in the minority here and my view on a flea market, but I did get head lights from Pat, and the lower dash from you in 08, both sold prior to all of us ever meeting.

I am speaking from a vacation point of view and keeping my wifes interests in mind as well. She spent Friday afternoon at the outlet stores while I was at Freds but I think Saturday should be more for people.

It is all possible it just comes down to a schedule. If you can't be at Fred's Friday know ahead what is available and have it spoken for. If someone is going to bring a wagon full of parts surely he can post what he is bringing and save dragging it all back home as you had to.

My take is a State Park is no place for a tickle trunk full of what most visitors would view as junk. Next think parts are being installed and fluid spilled, thats just not the place.

Leave Saturday as is,if anything extend it into a supper at the park and an evening cruise.

Quote :

My take is a State Park is no place for a tickle trunk full of what most visitors would view as junk.

lol, plenty of people probably think the same about our old wagons...

A few years ago when I was just getting into the bio-diesel thing, we were invited to a weekend alternative energy get together in a provincial park (Algonguin) north of here. The organizers managed to reserve an entire section of one of the campgrounds about 9 months ahead.

We all had to pay for our own campsites and pitched in for the cost of a large event tent (smaller version of the one Lorne showed) and some extra for some ancilary stuff but the end result was a very cheap weekend. Mind you most of the people who attended were eco freaks and didn't mind camping out for the weekend (including a bunch that didn't have tents...I guess nylon isn't environmentally friendly) but all of the weekends stuff happened under that tent, including all the meals, seminars, demonstrations etc. We all shared BBQs, tables etc. and brought our own food (way too many vegetarians for my liking...ever try to BBQ lentils?).

I suggested a variant of this idea last year but it fell on deaf ears. The park we stayed in was Sampson State Park and the campsites are set up in loops. If we could get enough interest now, then maybe one of the loops could be reserved for next year. That would give us a place to hold the event for the entire weekend and would not be interfeering with any of the other campers in the park. The tent could be used as a central area for anyone who is actually camping. The campsites all have power and water is close by. Could hold the Saturday meals there and arrange a shuttle back to town that night with either a bus or a bunch of DDs. I'm sure our cars would be safe there overnight should the owners indulge in too much ethanol.

The park is about 20 minutes south of Waterloo so would provide an interesting cruise back to town or from town to the event. That would allow all of us to chip in both money and labor so that Fred and Kelly aren't stuck with all the work and actually have some time to enjoy the event. For those wanting to camp out, would provide a cheaper way to attend. Costs of tent, tables, chairs and the catered BBQ could be shared equally amonst the attendees and we wouldn't have to vacate the site at 4:00 like at Seneca.

Just some thoughts.

Bill

I too liked the park we used for WF06. But then we packed that area and that was with a little fewer cars. I don't think there is room there for us now. The pavilion we used last year (WF08) was closer to the restrooms and closer to our parking but the parking was all 'on street' and there was constant vehicle traffic to contend with, particularly with the group photo. The one we used this year (same as WF07) had a near perfect place for parking, lots of shade and little vehicle traffic. Yes the pavilion was a little farther away but I don't think it was a problem really.

As to the parts swap. I think it did work well this year and perhaps some additional organization would help. Sounds like we have a volunteer or two which makes things easier. One thing to be cautious about though is the exchanging of money. If it becomes a "swap meet" Fred could run into issues with permits and such. This would not be good as there would be significantly more time (and money) required to get the event together. Just something to keep in mind.

I too would not mind at all changing the awards. I think the ugliest, low mile and high mile awards could go away. However, I don't want to see (as was mentioned by a fellow Fester) an hour long awards ceremony either. Keep it simple. Favorite stock, favorite customized, favorite mod. Or something along those lines.

Of course this is Fred's event. Whatever he wants to do is fine by me. So long as we're allowed to still show up each year and enjoy the company of friends and our wagons!

Quote :

Of course this is Fred's event. Whatever he wants to do is fine by me. So long as we're allowed to still show up each year and enjoy the company of friends and our wagons!

Can't agree more. Fred and Kelly have done an incredible job putting this event on over the years and it is first and foremost Fred's show. We can make suggestions but in the end, it is Fred and Kelly that have to put it all together. Maybe next year, some of us with flexible schedules, could arrive a couple of days early to help out.

Bill

I take back my waterloo park suggestion - I think the park we used in 2006 is too small for the number of wagons attending now, according to google maps.

Hello all- Fred's wife here. I just want to respond to some of your suggestions/ideas--at least the stuff that I handle!

We moved the Fest to Seneca Lake State Park because the park in Waterloo was too small for the number of cars that started to show up for our little event! 25 cars were at the Fest in 2006--over 50 this year! There simply isn't enough room for everyone to park at Oak Island in Waterloo. Also, the shelter is the only thing the park in Waterloo has to offer. Each year we have seen a growing number of wives/girlfriends/families attending the Fest. Let's face it, not every kid is like Jake--the cars aren't enough for everyone! Seneca Lake State park is easy to get to. It has playgounds, the (kinda) beach, and the spaypark to help occupy (and keep happy) the growing number of families that are attending the fest. And it isn't too long a drive from the Micro-tel, Fred's shop or stores if people need to run out for things (like plates and forks)! I worked at the park for 12 years, so I do have some good connections. I know what I can ask for and I also I know what we can get away with--and what we can't.

I spoke to just about everyone at dinner last year and asked which of the two shelters at the park you liked better--it was a 50-50 spit! Sheter 2 ('07 and '09) offers the parking along the lake (lots of shade and great for pix) but the longer walk to the shelter and bathrooms. There is another bathroom out on the lake road though--near the white tent that is set up out there. That is a shorter walk if you don't have to head to the Shelter for anyting. Shelter 1 ('08) has parking in the spaces off the park road but is closer to the sheter and bathrooms. When I called to make the arrangements for this year's shelter, Shelter 2 was the only one open. The choice was made for us. I'll need to book next year's shelter at the end of next month--if you want to suggest your favorite before then, please do!

The park has very specific rules about a lot of things. (NYS has a lot of rules about a lot of things!) No parking in the grass is a big one! We can only park one car length into the grass, so we can not park the cars closer to the shelter. Fred asked about it last year--got a big fat NO! The other big rule involves selling your parts. WE CAN NOT set up a tent to have a parts sale in the park. Please don't do that!! (Any organized sale requires very expensive permits that are very difficult to get.) If you want to swap parts at the Fest on Saturday--it must remain on an individual basis--and small scale! Joel, if you have a whiteboard and want to bring it so people can see who has what, that's fine. If not, maybe we can use post-it notes on the shelter window's??? If you want to do more than that, you will have to make a plan to do it on Friday night as people arrive or on Sunday. I am sorry!

We do have the shelter from dawn 'til dusk, so extending our time at the park is easy! Get up earlier and we'll plan to stay later!

Bill, I looked into using a loop in the campgrounds at Sampson. Again, the park rules make it difficult for us to hold our even there in one of the loops. And since it is a longer drive--I worry about the drive back to the hotel at the end of the day for some!

Dinner. We've been working on dinner since the first year. Ya gotta admit, it is getting better. We chose Abigails becuase (small town) it is the only place in town that can hold everyone! (And it is right next door to the Micro-tel where everyone stays.) $21.50 for dinner/drink/tip may not be the best deal in town, but it didn't seem too bad. I am working on new plans for next year. Give me a suggested price range and I'll do my best to get a dinner people will enjoy.

Chirs--You need to tell me more about the dash plaques. Work with me on that and I will see what I can do. Keep in mind, I am working with a very small budget!

It is not difficult to get ballots in--almost all were in on time! There was a close count in one of the categories--I felt it important to make sure every vote was in and counted before naming the winner. The awards really aren't my area--I just collect and count the ballots. BUT, I think this event seems different from most. The cars are what bring you here, but WagonFest seems, to me, to be more about the PEOPLE. The friendships that have been forged, the coversations and ideas that are shared each year--that's the real prize. A long list of awards doesn't really fit this show. But, I'm just a girl that drives a Camry--what do I know. : )

We want to make this an event everyone will continue to enjoy! We don't have big sponsors with big money to spend--we work very hard to share this weekend with all of you. I hope you keep coming. And if you can arrive early--I'll put you to work! I can always use the help!

Thanks!
Kelly

Welcome Kelly! Thanks for the list, got it yesterday.

I vote Shelter 2. Though things are a bit more spread out, it's just a really pleasant area to be in. Of course, I'll be there wherever it's held!

Hi Kelly. Welcome to da swamp.

I was unsure as to the ability of using one of the State Camping spots and the constrants. Just an idea. As far as transportation back, I'm sure there is enough people who either don't drink (me) or who don't drink much that could provide rides to those who do.

If the pavillion at Seneca is available till dusk, that should give us till about 8:30 or so (or maybe we could make special arrangements to go on later) to put together some sort of dinner in the pavillion. Even if it rains, we are at least under cover. and if we wrap up the show part at 4:00 or so, it would give people enough time to get back to their hotel and clean up before going back. If we all got back by 5:30, that would give us all about 3 hours to have dinner and then cruise back to the Microtel for "beerfest".

We could get it catered, probably cheaper then Abagails, its just that you would have to know in advance how many are going to attend. A steak/chicken/rib BBQ with veggies, salads and non alcoholic drinks (does NYS have any regs around bringing your own beer/wine to the park?) around here is about 18 bucks (Can) a head if you supply the venue. Can't see it being much different around Waterloo, assuming you have someone there that does this sort of thing.

As far as the pavallion, I opt for number 1. Mind you I have heel spurs and a weak bladder so proximity to the bathrooms is important . Was much closer to get to the pavillion in case of rain like WF08. Didn't seem to have any problem with space for the cars. The only redeeming feature about #2 was the lake in the back ground.

Good job Kelly and am now really looking forward to WF10, seeing as I missed this year. Just recieved my new ID today so I'm good to go.

Fred hasn't sold your Camry out from underneath you yet? Guard it with your life! Carol and I plan to spend the second week of September at Sampson to attend the Vintage Weekend at Watkins Glen. Maybe we can arrange to have you and Fred out for dinner.

Bill

Hey Kelly, thanks for responding. One of the funny things about event planning is that those who aren't involved in all the details don't know just how much went into the event. I fall into that group with this event, so please don't take my suggestions as critiques; they are only meant as questions with an eye towards improving it for next year.

I will gladly volunteer to coordinate the parts swap next year, and I'll touch base with you on that.

Regarding Shelter 2, you are very right about being the good compromise. I'll live with the walk since there are so many other benefits. I do admit I went over to scope out the sprayground! My vote is for shelter 2, with apologies to the diesel fellow.

One other idea for sponsors - I would be glad to throw in an amount like $25 to help "sponsor" the event, and I bet there would be others who would as well.

Finally, in case I didn't say it, THANK YOU for all of your hard work and planning each year!

Hey Kelly! Great to see you made it over here! Thanks SO MUCH for all you do for us and the Fest!

I liked the place we were this year. It was a longer walk to the bathroom, but I never made the walk any of the years, so I'm just going on what KL tells me.

Does the park allow us to get food catered? That would kick mucho ass! And I have seen Dinasaur BBQ on Food TV, so it HAS to be good!!!

I vote for all day at the Fest/park. Forget Abigails. Forget the cruise! Some of us drove a LONG way to get there and the last thing we want is to drive some more! I go to talk to everyone and hang out. Can't do much of that while trying to play catch-up to a line of cars, ya know? At dusk, we can all "cruise" to the Microtel.

I can't wait for NEXT YEAR!!!!

Quote :

I vote for all day at the Fest/park. Forget Abigails. Forget the cruise! Some of us drove a LONG way to get there and the last thing we want is to drive some more! I go to talk to everyone and hang out. Can't do much of that while trying to play catch-up to a line of cars, ya know? Wink At dusk, we can all "cruise" to the Microtel. Very Happy

+1, and +1 more for Dinosaur BBQ!

Jason

I am looking into having dinner catered at the park next year. NYS does charge a fee for that at the park--I think it is $100. When I have details/options I will let you all know.

And will need to see a plaque--I have NO IDEA what we're talking about. I am sure I will need help making something that will work here!

And does everyone agree that breakfast Sunday AM should be moved to 10. I mean--if no one WANTS breakfast at 8 AM, I sure could use the extra time (and sleep!)

I have never been a big fan of car show dash plaques. When I get them, they just get thrown in the glove box. My 65 is full of them, and I never look at them.

Here is an example:

jayoldschool wrote:

I have never been a big fan of car show dash plaques. When I get them, they just get thrown in the glove box. My 65 is full of them, and I never look at them.

Here is an example:

True, I don't look at mine either- but- every time I go to a local show, I pull out the plaque(s) from that show, and place them on the display stand. Easier to show that I've been there 3,4, or 5 years as opposed to just telling people over, and over, and over and over again.

It also helps when I tell people that I "show" my wagon. When they don't believe me (and most don't- because, 'cmon, who really shows a wagon?) I pull put the plaques.

Krzdimond wrote:

True, I don't look at mine either- but- every time I go to a local show, I pull out the plaque(s) from that show, and place them on the display stand. Easier to show that I've been there 3,4, or 5 years as opposed to just telling people over, and over, and over and over again.

It also helps when I tell people that I "show" my wagon. When they don't believe me (and most don't- because, 'cmon, who really shows a wagon?) I pull put the plaques.

That was my thought. I don't look at mine...but I dig them out for shows. I just don't like to put a lot of stickers on my car. But I would put a WFest one on

I can do the plaques this year and see if people like them! I have some connections I can use. Let me gather some info and I will throw it out later on and see what everyone thinks.

Hi Kelly, welcome to the "other" forum!

Chris, I like the plaque idea for the car show. I'd also like to see some info about the cars somewhere. I suppose that'd be up to the owners but I wonder if a common format could work. Since my car is a moving target I'll probably do another color poster for WF-10. For WF-08 I had a a couple 11x17 sheets of paper laminated and I put them on my rear windows. That way when I do something different to the car the cost of upgrading is minimal:

I think an info sheet of some sort is a good idea. I do a simpler version of that and lay it on my dash.

It's something each owner can do at minimal cost (a sheet of paper and a few drops of ink) so other's can know about your car if you're wandering about the show.

DBeaSSt wrote:

I think an info sheet of some sort is a good idea. I do a simpler version of that and lay it on my dash.

It's something each owner can do at minimal cost (a sheet of paper and a few drops of ink) so other's can know about your car if you're wandering about the show.

That is exactly what I did this year. I had one on my dash with all my mods listed. That way if someone wanted to know what something looked like (such as H&R springs/Bilstein's/SS wheels) they could!

I liked the spot of the 2009 Wagonfest the best. Let's try not to get too complicated. I had a great time this year!

Seneca park is great. You should have it catered by Dinosaur BBQ! I am a native of upstate New York (Avon) but was relocated by unforseen circumstances to Cleveland OH. When I saved for and bought my first car, a 92 Buick Roadmaster, I became a B-Body addict. I was finally able to fill the B-Body void in my soul with my current ride, a DCM Caprice wagon. I then found out there is an event for other sick minded individuals in my old neck of the woods! Maybe it's something in the water! Keep us posted when the 2010 event will take place, I'll be there! It doesn't take much of an excuse to get me to roll through that neck of the woods. I don't have a show piece, or even anything special, but its a 14 ft beast that makes me happy every time I turn the key! It would be great to meet up with some people who know what cars are supposed to be made of.

I recently discovered that Fred's slogan of "I got a Woody in Waterloo NY" actually dates back to the late 1920's when the Cambell coach builders build woody bodies for every thing from busses to station wagons....and cars....

Apearantly every year there is a woody round up held in conjunture with the Memorial day festivities in Waterloo NY

Should wagonfest be open to all long roof woodies?

http://www.oldwoodies.com/feature-build-campbell.htm

Quote :

In May of 1939, Mr. Campbell purchased the car barns, repair shop and local office of the former trolley line, located on West Main St. in Waterloo, just west of the village, and turned them into a manufacturing facility. The west building was greatly enlarged and in it, the Mid State Body Co., Inc. and the Hercules-Campbell Body Co., Inc. manufactured stakes, van and special bodies, and assembled Wayne buses for schools, until the big fire of 1947.

Wonder if Fred's old yard was part of the plant?

Bill

DINOSAUR!

I'm on my last bottle of sauce. Time for a road trip...

Do people in Ottawa really turst you with their children?

They don't have a choice. I'm in a union.

Very interesting article Pat, that is a real part of Americana! Unfortunately the US is not the manufacturing giant that it once was. In the glory days we could design and make anything; those are days gone by.

Tom C.

I'm planning out vacation time for 2010. Has a date been nailed down yet for 2010?

Obviously July. What days?

WagonFest is the last Saturday in July. That would make the 2010 WF date July 31.

I've not heard anything different from our gracious host and already made my Microtel reservations for that weekend.

Let me check my "2010 Buickforums.com Member rides"

Looks like Friday July 30- Sunday August 1st.

"Originally Posted by nhgonzo
Just want to confirm that this is the date for the 2010 wag fest is the weekend of July 31st and not the 24th??"


For the record of anyone searching for the date, can we confirm with the official Mr & Mrs Fester that the pavilion has been reserved for Wagonfest 2010 on the last Saturday of July, 07/31/10 and not the last FULL weekend of July.

I have a concern that some concern that people will show up on July 24th as the last full weekend of July to an empty place.
__________________

Fred has confirmed the date is and always will be the last Saturday of July, this year being July 31.

To those locally in Western & Central NY please see the EVENTS section for notice of a car show in Geneva the weekend BEFORE Wagonfest 2010 It's two miles down the road from the Wagonfest site.