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 Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?

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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:45 am

So the cheap crap I used last year for the most part peeled off and I'm going to need to recoat my car. I was looking at doing myself again with some stuff that a couple of the guys on the New England board suggested, but then I heard about Ziebart and how apparently its really good stuff. Anyone ever use it? Is it worth it?

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silverfox103
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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:27 pm

Justin, not sure how good Ziebart would stick to an 18 year old northeast undercarriage. It works best on a new car.

Tom
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:37 pm

silverfox103 wrote:
Justin, not sure how good Ziebart would stick to an 18 year old northeast undercarriage. It works best on a new car.

Tom

Oh, I planned to grind down the frame to bare metal (again) and prime before I did it.
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81X11



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:40 pm

Not helpful but funny and related New Jersey story for ya. My best friend growing us was a guy named Ben Randazzo....we're still good friends. Anyway his parents are from Sicily, and his Dad, while not tall, is a barrel-chested dude built like a fireplug, and speaks broken English and speaks LOUD. As a matter of fact his entire family speaks loud. For a fairly soft-spoken guy from Texas it was a lot of fun going to their house for dinner as a teenager.

ANYWAY Ben's Dad bought a brand new '86 Caprice Classic when we were 16, and he had the car treated with Rusty Jones protection at the dealership there in New Jersey. The rust protection had a "lifetime warranty"....well they should have known that lifetime means something different to a Randazzo...since Ben's father traded in his rusty 74 Caprice for the new '86.

After about 4-5 New Jersey winters the car began to get some rust around the lower doors and rear 1/4's. Ben Dad took it to the dealer, the coverage took care of it, and the rust was fixed.

In 1994 the car was showing rust again, and again Ben's Dad went to the dealer, and the car was fixed again.

Forward to 1998, car has rust again. The dealer gave some push-back but Ben's Dad raised hell and once again the lower doors, rear 1/4's, and front lower fenders were fixed.

In 2003 the car sprouted rust from behind the side rub strips on the doors, and going through inspection it was discovered the floor pans were rotting out. Again Ben's Dad went to the dealer. The dealer refused to fix it, claiming the car was 17 years old and beyond it's normal mechanical life, so the warranty no longer applied.

I was not there, but Ben was, and his Dad supposedly went off screaming in Italian at the service dept, the sales team, anyone that he saw. I've seen him pissed, and I can just imagine it....but in the end the car was not fixed this time.

In 2005 the Caprice was too rusty to pass state inspection, and Ben's Dad refuses to buy a front drive car or anything less than a V8. He bought a new 2006 Grand Marquis, his first Ford. The dealer Ziebart'd it. It's 2011 now, and I'm waiting for the first rust story from Ben as I type this, Laughing

Oh and as for the 86 Caprice, despite the rust, it only had 89K miles on it when it would no longer pass inspection for rust. Ben said the 305 still ran like a watch. In 2008 someone in their neighborhood called the city about a "junk" car in their driveway (I don't miss New Jersey...mind your own business!) , and the police came out. Since the Caprice was not inspected, licensed or registed at that time, Mr. Randazzo was told he'd have to make it legal or move it. He called the local wrecking yard and the Caprice was hauled off for scrap...still running fine....with the Rusty Jones sticker in the rear 1/4 window....

-Mike
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silverfox103
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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:17 pm

Justin look at an older posts of your's: http://badass-of-ne.forumotion.com/t1376-undercoating-wag-frame?highlight=oil+undercoating

I am referring to oil undercoating.

Tom C.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:23 pm

I saw that. How permanent is that? I really dont feel like having to recoat every year, and if I end up moving to Nashua I doubt my apartment complex would appreciate me doing that. Laughing
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JoeT



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:43 pm

I never thought that undercoating was anything but false promises and snake-oil marketing BUT my 91 Caprice was undercoated by Ziebart when new.

After 20 years in Michigan and over 168,000 miles, I am surprised at how little rust there is.

All the "normal" spots are just beginning to show corrosion and I have one hole in the driver's quarter panel, right behind the tire at the bottom of the panel. It had less rust than any other '91, '92 or '93 Michigan/Ohio/Indiana car I saw when I was shopping for a B body wagon (about 18 months ago).

The frame has scale rust where it was not perfectly coated or where the coating has chipped off.
Floor pans look perfect; no rust or soft spots anywhere that I have found, and I am often underneath this car.

I don't know what Ziebart charges for new-car undercoating, but I would say that it could be worth a few hundred dollars in reduced repair cost and improved resale value.
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Flasheroo



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:47 pm

Mike your friends Italian pop is the reason that Zeibart changed to a limited time rust thru
warranty in states that use salt and other corrosives.
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Sprocket



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:22 pm

when I got my 94 1A2 that saw 14 winters in NY/PA (western that is) it had some sort of undercoating on it. It was holding the scale together and made it easy to vacuum it off the frame with my shop vac.
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81X11



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:58 pm

In 2001 I bought my wife a gorgeous 1998 Suburban 1500 LT 4x4. Maroon over maroon leather, LT, body color factory wheel flares, heated seats, a NICE rig, and by far the nicest vehicle I'd ever purchased. It had 42,000 miles on it.

I found it here in Austin at a local Chevy dealer. Most Burb's down here are 2WD, so this 4x4, in that color, really stood out. It had the stock mag wheels with brand new raised-letter Goodyear Wrangler RT/S tires. It was a knockout.

I'd been looking for a newer Suburban for a while and the price and miles on this one were way below market. When I looked under it, I found out why. Rust...surface mind you, but clearly not a Texas vehicle. Explained the 4x4 option and heated seats.

I spoke to the dealer and was told the truck was a trade-in from Michigan. It had been on the lot 45 days (rust scares the hell out of people down here). I test drove it and it ran and drove fine. After living in New Jersey for years I decided a little rust would not scare me away. I went back, made a deal on it, trading in my gorgeous 95 Bonneville SLE Crying or Very sad and went to Wal Mart, bought a big bow, drove home, parked it in the driveway with the bow on it, and gave it to my wife for out anniversary.

My redneck Aggie wife was of course thrilled with it. It was fun watching her jump up in down in the driveway. The color and the 4x4 made her day, and she made mine later...

As I said the truck was SO SHARP, but the 4x4's have tall frames that you can see from the sides, and the rust really stood out. The funny thing was it had undercoating all under it as well, but it had been stained brown and looked horrible.

I spent a full weekend with a scraper taking that gooey crap off. When you really got under it, the frame was clean, but it seemed like all around the edges of the undercoating that water got trapped and in fact sped up the rust. After getting all that off I sanded the frame and shot it all black. It looked much better after that.

Now the moral of the story, as pretty as that truck was, I never really liked it, and we only kept it two years. It rode rough (yes I know it was a 4x4), and had a lot of wind and road noise. And I knew that rust was under there still, on the suspension parts, the bolts under the hood, and the truck just never "felt" right because of it. I'd open the hood, or climb under it to change the oil, and get upset.....

It also gave us more issues than any other Suburban before or since. I don't know if spending those first years up north had anything to do with it, but in my mind THAT was what caused it. The right front wheel bearing burned up, the a/c died, the water pump blew, a U-joint failed, and the idler and tensioner on the engine started howling. All things a vehicle with well under 70K miles (which it had when I sold it) should not have had happen.

I ended up selling that '98 4x4 for pretty much what I paid for it. I of course had it spotless and it was nicer than when I bought it...but you know, not...right.

When I got rid of that '98 4x4 I actually bought an older Suburban, a 96 model, with 80K miles on it, 10K more than the 4x4. But that 96 was a 2WD, local truck from Marble Falls owned by an older couple, and I got it cheap. Bright red conversion model with silver and grey stripes, running boards and the same maroon interior as the 98 4x4. It was spotless inside, under the hood, and you could eat off the frame and undercarriage. It was a 2WD, and rode like a Cadillac compared to the 4x4, and was also quiet inside. Have no idea why the '98 model had so much wind noise.

We drove that 96 model from 80K to 150K miles. It was a wonderful truck, as was our used '03 Suburban that I just recently gave to my Mom to drive when gas prices finally forced us out of it.

Now that I'vew TOTALLY hijacked this thread, the bottom line is that if rust gets under that undercoating, if anything it will spread faster, so like everyone above says, get all the rust off first!

.............................and don't buy used Suburban's from Michigan......no matter how pretty they are.

Very Happy

-Mike
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:02 pm

We should give you a thread, make it a sticky and let you go to town. Wink
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81X11



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:29 pm

Sorry I ramble. I'm stuck at work waiting on a deal approval and just passing the time.

Again....I ramble.....sorry. Smile
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Stingroo



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:23 am

Mike was born a ramblin' man....
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jasonlachapelle



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:38 am

The Ziebart is a thicker, drip free undercoating. It isn't as good as the Metropolitain or Krown oil treatment as it tends to crack and allow moisture underneath it.
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Flasheroo



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:55 am

Wish you could buy "Spray Rust in a Can"!I would fly down to texas and give Mike a heart
attack.Just cover the underside with little spots of rust and then mention that I thought I
saw a little rust underneath.Would drive Mike crazy as hell.
Jason you are right about "Krown Oil Coatings".I spent my summers in Ohio as a kid and I remember
well my uncle bringing cars to his garage for a special rust treatment.Its been 45 to 50 years ago
but I remember him connecting what looked like a huge gauge jumper cable to the frame when he
was underneath spraying the frame down.He would move that cable around as he sprayed the different
areas of the car.This cable was hooked to what looked like a battery charger.If anybody else remembers
this big cable please chime in.He would always brush the frame with a wire brush before he hooked this
cable up.I also remember him pooring used motor oil into the barrel that fed the sprayer.
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81X11



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:09 am

You want to see me freak out? Spray the entire underside of my car with oil! I'll find the nearest bridge and jump off it.

No
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Flasheroo



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:16 am

Dont give me any ideas Mike!
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Lynol



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:59 pm

I've never heard of doing Ziebart treatment on an older car, but I will say this: my '79 IH Scout had the full blown Ziebart treatment from new; I'm talkin' undercoating, filling the inside of the doors, rocker panels, and anything else they could get into, and after 30+ years of NY winters, the truck is still in one piece with a very nice looking frame, and a body with minimal isolated rust through. (anyone who knows Scouts knows the bodies rust up like CRAZY; I'm talkin' like when they were new they rusted away) but, anywhere where the Ziebart coating was not applied, just like an old Vega, the untreated area rusted like a mofo. Which explains the replaced top and the rust holes in very strange places. Also, I saw a '74 Scout with the full Ziebart treatment that had perfect doors, rockers, tailgate, and fenders, and everything else had rusted away like it'd never been there. So my conclusion is the stuff works very well, as long as every area is coated, and coated thoroughly.
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200OZ
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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:07 pm

Ziebart might be better than nothing, but I don't like it. And it's supposed to be re-coated every year, as are most under coatings. I would not under coat a car that has any rust on it with Ziebart, Deisel fuel and motor oil mixed together, then sprayed on the car works good, but that is a messy, smelly job.

There is a place in Buffalo, and a place a little east of Syracuse that I've seen used on a friend's cars and trucks. The '89 Chevy C1500 p/u that this guy bought new, and has had it undercoated every year at the Buffalo shop is in great shape, and he drives it year around, 270,000 miles and no rust on the body worth mentioning, can't see it from 15' away. It still has all the original brake and fuel lines, and the spare tire holder still works. If anyone knows about these trucks up in the western NY area, than the proof is in the pudding. I haven't seen a '88-'90 Chevy anything driven year around up here for 3-4 years on the road. This guy gets all his cars done there and swears by it. This stuff is messy but when you can unbolt stuff on a 15 year old car with out a flame wrench, it's worth the mess.

http://www.carwell.com/index.htm

Mike


Last edited by 200OZ on Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JoeT



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PostSubject: Re: Ziebart Undercoating... Worth It?   Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:28 pm

A friend of mine in Etobicoke, Ontario swears by that oil undercoating.

He gets his '90 Chev 1500 re-coated every year.

Has to leave it overnight so they can capture the excess that drips off the truck....
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