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Cadet57

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PostSubject: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:52 am

I've been contemplating taking the Caprice off the road for the winter so I can have my leisure to get all the little and not so little projects done without having to pay for insurance and gas at the same time. One of my goals is all new front end parts. I've been going thru my FSM (I found it!) and made a list. If I'm missing anything please lmk also, if you have any suggestions for said parts please lmk. Thanks!

  • tie rods
  • center link
  • Idler arms
  • steering links
  • linkage relay
  • upper and lower control arms
  • shocks
  • springs
  • sway bar
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200OZ
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:21 pm

You would want new adjuster sleeves for the tie rods, sway bar end links, and sway bar bushings imo.

I have a new, in the box Moog Chevy Caprice center link. I'll sell it to ya' for $55.00 shipped. LMK if that's a good # for you.

Mike
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Cadet57

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:32 pm

200OZ wrote:
You would want new adjuster sleeves for the tie rods, sway bar end links, and sway bar bushings imo.

I have a new, in the box Moog Chevy Caprice center link. I'll sell it to ya' for $55.00 shipped. LMK if that's a good # for you.

Mike

Thanks Mike. I'll keep that in mind, but I'm still pricing all this out so not sure what I'm going to do yet. I'll let you know what I do either way.
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1phastsswagon

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:23 am

This here is a good break down of what can be done - (IMHO IF you are not looking to raise or lower the car or if the springs are not sagging you should be ok with reusing them, same as the control arms - if they are not damaged you should just look at replacing the ball joints, and bushings)

STEERING
Outer Tie Rods - ES2019R
Tie Rod Adjusters - ES2004S
Inner Tie Rods - ES2020L
Center Link - DS899
Center Link w/ Damper Provision - DS1405
Damper for above center link - 14019
Idler Arm - FA1013

4 Wheel Alignment -

SUSPENSION
Front Shocks -
Upper Ball Joints - FA688
Upper Control Arm Bushings - FB330
Lower Ball Joints - FA921
Lower Control Arm Bushings - FB331
Lower Control Arm Bump Stops - (GM ZQ8) GM 15956547 (Motormite #31064)
Sway Bar End Links - SL90HD
Sway Bar Bushings -
Upper Left Control Arm – Dorman #520-119
Lower Left Control Arm – Dorman #520-117
Upper Right Control Arm – Dorman #520-120
Lower Right Control Arm – Dorman #520-118

MISC.
Pressure Side Steering Hose -
Return Side Steering Hose -
Steering Shaft Rag Joint - (Or replace with Borgeson Style U Joint)


Last edited by 1phastsswagon on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:03 pm; edited 6 times in total
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:19 am

1phastsswagon wrote:
This here is a good break down of what can be done - (IMHO IF you are not looking to raise or lower the car or if the springs are not sagging you should be ok with reusing them, same as the control arms - if they are not damaged you should just look at replacing the ball joints, and bushings)

STEERING
Outer Tie Rods - ES2019R
Tie Rod Adjusters - ES2045S
Inner Tie Rods - ES2020L
Center Link - DS899
Idler Arm - FA1013

4 Wheel Alignment -

SUSPENSION
Front Shocks -
Upper Ball Joints -
Upper Control Arm Bushings -
Lower Ball Joints -
Lower Control Arm Bushings -
Lower Control Arm Bump Stops -
Sway Bar End Links -
Sway Bar Bushings -

MISC.
Pressure Side Steering Hose -
Return Side Steering Hose -
Steering Shaft Rag Joint - (Or replace with Borgeson Style U Joint)

shotgun approach again,.on a 2month old thread that has already been superceded by the current thread,.
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Krzdimond
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:25 pm

True, but I think that a thread with the needed part number would help those in the future.

case in point:

the centerlink DS899 is for the NON damper center link and the DS1405 is for the damper.

Autozone does NOT carry 1/2 the parts needed under the wagon.... you need to tell them it's a sedan.
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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:31 pm

I personally wouldn't use the dampner it gives a false input to the steering wheel,.AND puts unneeded strain on the ps pump,.

perhaps a moderator might clean up one of these threads or combine the two and make it a sticky??

Wink
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:32 pm

phantom 309 wrote:
I personally wouldn't use the dampner it gives a false input to the steering wheel,.AND puts unneeded strain on the ps pump,.

perhaps a moderator might clean up one of these threads or combine the two and make it a sticky??

Wink

It is not a dampener, it is a damper. You are not making anything wet, you are controlling vibrations.
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Krzdimond
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:34 pm

If you do it right, you get both.
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Krzdimond
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:46 pm

1phastsswagon wrote:
This here is a good break down of what can be done - (IMHO IF you are not looking to raise or lower the car or if the springs are not sagging you should be ok with reusing them, same as the control arms - if they are not damaged you should just look at replacing the ball joints, and bushings)

STEERING
Outer Tie Rods - ES2019R
Tie Rod Adjusters - ES2045S (ES2004S)
Inner Tie Rods - ES2020L
Center Link - DS899 ( DS1405 W/Damper)
Idler Arm - FA1013

4 Wheel Alignment -

SUSPENSION
Front Shocks -
Upper Ball Joints - FA688
Upper Control Arm Bushings -
Lower Ball Joints - FA921
Lower Control Arm Bushings -
Lower Control Arm Bump Stops -
Sway Bar End Links -
Sway Bar Bushings -

MISC.
Pressure Side Steering Hose -
Return Side Steering Hose -
Steering Shaft Rag Joint - (Or replace with Borgeson Style U Joint)


I added my $0.02 in red.
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1phastsswagon

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:17 pm

1phastsswagon wrote:
This here is a good break down of what can be done - (IMHO IF you are not looking to raise or lower the car or if the springs are not sagging you should be ok with reusing them, same as the control arms - if they are not damaged you should just look at replacing the ball joints, and bushings)

STEERING
Outer Tie Rods - ES2019R
Tie Rod Adjusters - ES2045S
Inner Tie Rods - ES2020L
Center Link - DS899
Idler Arm - FA1013

4 Wheel Alignment -

SUSPENSION
Front Shocks -
Upper Ball Joints - FA688
Upper Control Arm Bushings - FB330
Lower Ball Joints - FA921
Lower Control Arm Bushings - FB331
Lower Control Arm Bump Stops - (GM ZQ8)
Sway Bar End Links - SL90HD
Sway Bar Bushings -

MISC.
Pressure Side Steering Hose -
Return Side Steering Hose -
Steering Shaft Rag Joint - (Or replace with Borgeson Style U Joint)

Few more numbers added to above -

These guys here (Zack Kanter Proforged) have a pretty good list as well http://www.proforged.com/

- also be a good time to do the wheel bearings & grease seals as well.
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81X11

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:24 pm

I don't see it listed here, but don't our cars have a pitman arm? Is it called something else?

Also is there any issue with going to a center link without the steering shock/dampner? The center link without the dampner is about half the price.

I had a pretty bad issue with the wagon over the weekend. Will elaborate later. For now making a parts list....

Never a dull moment in life....

-Mike
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95BRMW

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:01 pm

81X11 wrote:
I don't see it listed here, but don't our cars have a pitman arm? Is it called something else?

Also is there any issue with going to a center link without the steering shock/dampner? The center link without the dampner is about half the price.

I had a pretty bad issue with the wagon over the weekend. Will elaborate later. For now making a parts list....

Never a dull moment in life....

-Mike

We have a pitman arm but there are no parts on it that wear. The ball joint from the center link is what wears and that gets replaced with the center link. I found a center link for roadmaster's on rockauto for about $50 for cars with the dampener, a hell of a lot cheaper than everyone else. I bought it when I did my front end job and as of now its been fine. I can't understand why these cost so much more for the roadies.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1284135
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:40 pm

95BRMW wrote:
81X11 wrote:
I don't see it listed here, but don't our cars have a pitman arm? Is it called something else?

Also is there any issue with going to a center link without the steering shock/dampner? The center link without the dampner is about half the price.

I had a pretty bad issue with the wagon over the weekend. Will elaborate later. For now making a parts list....

Never a dull moment in life....

-Mike

We have a pitman arm but there are no parts on it that wear. The ball joint from the center link is what wears and that gets replaced with the center link. I found a center link for roadmaster's on rockauto for about $50 for cars with the dampener (see below), a hell of a lot cheaper than everyone else. I bought it when I did my front end job and as of now its been fine. I can't understand why these cost so much more for the roadies.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1284135

You do not have to do anything with the pitman arm, unless you bent it. They are almost impossible to get, except at a junk yard.

You can use a centerlink without the damper (we are not trying to get something wet, we are trying to stop random inputs from the road). You probably will not notice any difference. If you have bump-steer issues, someone makes a centerlink with the ability to adjustment for bump-steer (see thread on ISSF).
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81X11

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:51 pm

[/quote]

We have a pitman arm but there are no parts on it that wear. The ball joint from the center link is what wears and that gets replaced with the center link. I found a center link for roadmaster's on rockauto for about $50 for cars with the dampener, a hell of a lot cheaper than everyone else. I bought it when I did my front end job and as of now its been fine. I can't understand why these cost so much more for the roadies.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1284135 [/quote]

Thanks SO much! Went to Rock Auto and with shipping and the correct center link it was still $50 cheaper than Autozone. I'd looked at Advance and O'Reilly as well but Autozone was cheapest.....until going to Rock Auto. Got better brands too.

SO NOW I need to know what steering stabilizer/damper/shock to order? Mine is leaking for sure, it's wet. They have no listing for one on a Roadmaster, but do list Delco part #'s 509-608, old # 88946549, for a 92-96 Cadillac Fleetwood...which is I know our "sister" car. Anyone know if it's the same?????? $25 plus $8 shipping.

Also, looked at Autozone for the damper. Same deal, no listing for a Roadmaster, but for a Fleetwood they list Gabriel #14019. It's only $21 too. Will order it....if someone can tell me that's it!

Little more help from the peanut gallery??

Thanks all!

-Mike

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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:03 pm

The damper should be the same, the suspension is the same.
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81X11

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:53 pm

Thanks Fred. We'll see.
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1phastsswagon

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:41 pm

If really want to get a pitman arm - Looking into a racing one - There are a few companies out there that make billet ones.

http://www.howeracing.com/p-7404-howe-billet-pitman-arm.aspx

OTHER MANUFACTURES
CV Products
Steve Leavitt Racing (Now purchased by CV Products)
RHE - Ronnie Hopkins Engineering

You can usually score tons of them from the race shops directly as once they mileage them out, they sell them for cheap to low buck race teams or go to used race parts stores / shops

Twisted Evil
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81X11

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:23 am

1phastsswagon wrote:
If really want to get a pitman arm - Looking into a racing one - There are a few companies out there that make billet ones.

http://www.howeracing.com/p-7404-howe-billet-pitman-arm.aspx

OTHER MANUFACTURES
CV Products
Steve Leavitt Racing (Now purchased by CV Products)
RHE - Ronnie Hopkins Engineering

You can usually score tons of them from the race shops directly as once they mileage them out, they sell them for cheap to low buck race teams or go to used race parts stores / shops

Twisted Evil

I don't think I need one. I thought it was a wear item but the ball joint is on the center link. Thankfully.
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1phastsswagon

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:42 pm

LIST Updated with GM ZQ8 Bumpstop Part Number
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:40 pm

Thankful for this thread. Was confused when I couldn't find a pitman arm on Rock Auto.

I hope mine isn't bent. Otherwise I'm going yarding over Spring Break (oh, woe is me, right? :p)
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:20 am

Your pittman arm is probably OK. They are the most stout part of the entire steering system. I would not worry about it. The stoutness, and non wear aspect of the arm is probably why no one sells them. Your tierods would bend, or the gears in the steering box would break before the pittman arm would bend.


Last edited by Fred Kiehl on Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:28 am

Well, that's a good thing.

I know my idler arm is bent, and now with the new 17" wheels/tires I feel the looseness in the steering more, so it's time to get that covered (that and I really don't want to destroy these tires, either. They're not cheap LOL)
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:47 am

Check the steering box for slack as well. The steering boxes are notorious for slack. There are two adjustments, the input shaft and the one on top. You have to adjust the input shaft first. If you still have the OEM intermediate shaft, check the rag joint too.
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:38 pm

So I have most of what I need for my front end rebuild. Considering doing the control arm bushings too.

I might just do the whole shaft kit for the uppers. Moog part number for the control arm shaft kit is K6210.

Thoughts? How difficult is this?
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:19 pm

It is not that big of a deal. The hardest part is getting a split adapter for over the shaft. A garage may do it for you cheap, if you have the arms off of the car.

You may find it easier to get the driver's side upper out by removing the studs. You can tap them out, and pull them back in with the nuts, just like a wheel lug. Get new nuts for all 4 upper anchor bolts, just in case they were removed, or loosened at some prior time. They are only good for 2 tightenings.


Last edited by Fred Kiehl on Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling errors)
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:06 pm

LIST UPDATED Again - *added Upper & Lower COntrol arm numbers. Complete with Ball Joints (ready to Install)

Upper Left Control Arm – Dorman #520-119
Lower Left Control Arm – Dorman #520-117
Upper Right Control Arm – Dorman #520-120
Lower Right Control Arm – Dorman #520-118
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:14 pm

If you put in just a new center link & damper, (96 RMW) do you need to have an alinement done?
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Krzdimond
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:51 pm

nope, as long as the tie rods and adjusters are not messed with
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:57 pm

quote: It is not a dampener, it is a damper. You are not making anything wet, you are controlling vibrations. quote

Dampener is correct:

damp·en·er
ˈdamp(ə)nər/Submit
noun
a thing that has a restraining or subduing effect.





Damper is incorrect:  

damp·er
ˈdampər/Submit
noun
a person or thing that has a depressing, or inhibiting effect.

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phantom 309

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:27 pm

Fred said,.
Quote :
It is not a dampener, it is a damper. You are not making anything wet, you are controlling vibrations.

Rivnut said
Quote :
Dampener is correct:

damp·en·er
ˈdamp(ə)nər/Submit
noun
a thing that has a restraining or subduing effect.




Rivnut also said:
Quote :
Damper is incorrect:  

damp·er
ˈdampər/Submit
noun
a person or thing that has a depressing, or inhibiting effect.


It took 4 years, 2 months, and 20 days to put a damper on this thread,. Which i think describes fred to a T.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:30 am

My dictionary does not include the word dampener as a separate word, but does include dampen. It defines dampen as a verb; 1. to make wet, moist, 2. to deaden depress or reduce, to become damp. It includes dampener as an extension of the word dampen, and is a noun.

So it could be used to deaden, depress or reduce.

It also defines damper as a noun; 1. anything that deadens or depresses, 2. valve in a flue to control the draft, 3. a device to check vibrations in piano strings.

A similar part could stop vibrations in a car steering system, as damper is used as a description for a shock absorber.

Since looking it up, you could conceivably use either word, and fall in the bounds of the definition, although the first definition for dampen(er) is to make wet. The dictionary also states that dampen is a verb, dampener is a noun, and damper is a noun only.

I used the Webster's New World Dictionary 1983. Touché.
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