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r67northern

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PostSubject: Dead Blower   Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:32 pm

So last week, right about the time the RMW hit 100k, I went out and fired it up and the fan was dead. None of the "runs on high only" stuff - just dead. I figured that somehow it had expired overnight and ordered up a new one from RockAuto. Before I installed it today, I had the idea to plug it into the old motor's leads and make sure the motor was bad. The new motor doesn't spin either.

This leads me to the little control module/resistor that mounts off to the side of the motor, right? Since this is the auto climate Buick, this would also be the more expensive $130 unit I assume - it looks like all of the plugs would match.

Before I go and order that up as well, anything I should double check with the volt meter? (yeah, I reckon I should have done that before ordering up the fan - but with that said, anybody need a brand new fan before I send it back?)

Thanks!

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81X11

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:05 pm

I had to replace the blower on my '96 Cruiser. Went to the salvage yard and pulled on....think it was $15 with the resistor max. If I were you I'd head to the junk yard before spending more money on new parts.

Good luck!

- Mike
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95BRMW

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:29 pm

Pull out the connectors on the BCM (blower control module) and take a look at the actual connectors on the BCM itself. I had on 3 different cars the terminal that the orange wire goes to snap clean off from corrosion. If it is broken off your gonna need a new module, pick one from any Roadmaster (I have had tbi ones function in LT1 cars despite what I have read), or a 95-99 buick riviera/olds aurora. 93-96 fleetwood ones work as well. They are all the same and I have interchanged them successfully.
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uxwbill

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:31 pm

r67northern wrote:
Before I go and order that up as well, anything I should double check with the volt meter? (yeah, I reckon I should have done that before ordering up the fan - but with that said, anybody need a brand new fan before I send it back?)

Are you sure the car didn't blow a fuse?

Whatever circuit the fan is on, I can guarantee it is under a lot of load at any time the fan is running. The fuse could simply have become "tired". I've seen it happen before in many different applications, usually where the fuse is run close to its limit.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:05 am

I just replaced my blower motor with a used one. The original one runs when I connect it to a battery. The donor fan works in the car. I found a lot of debris in the fan when I removed it. The replacement fan you bought has a shorter cage, and will push less air. The Starship has a bad habit of heating the fan fuse, and melting the plastic. When the fan stops, I always check the fuse first.
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r67northern

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:45 pm

Thanks all,

I didn't note any corrosion under there (everything looked surprisingly new actually) but I'll double check to make sure the connections are still ok. The volt meter didn't show any changing voltage going to the fan leads when I worked the fan setting up and down a bit from the control panel.

As for the fuse... This brings up an interesting question. This 95 RMW has a place for a blower fuse but no fuse there at all. Actually there's no connection for the fuse in the panel either so it looks like the factory changed the way they wired things in somewhere along the line. At any rate, I pulled all of the fuses that may have even had a remote possibility and things looked ok. The way it just suddenly died though, my first thought was fuse too.

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94X2

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:51 pm

I second what Dave said. I've had the BCM die on mine without warning. One had the corroded pin and the second one didn't. One out of a Park Ave will work, too.

Jon
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uxwbill

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:59 pm

r67northern wrote:
As for the fuse... This brings up an interesting question. This 95 RMW has a place for a blower fuse but no fuse there at all.
Truly interesting. I always thought the blower was fused separately with electronic climate controls as well, though I have no literature for any of the longroof cars that had electronic climate controls as an option.

r67northern wrote:
Actually there's no connection for the fuse in the panel either so it looks like the factory changed the way they wired things in somewhere along the line. At any rate, I pulled all of the fuses that may have even had a remote possibility and things looked ok. The way it just suddenly died though, my first thought was fuse too.
The fuse panels are common to a number of different vehicle models, so they will have empty spots for things that don't exist on your model. I don't know if you should have a fuse there or not. Usually if there are not even contacts there, the answer is that the fuse never did belong there.

If you want to test the old fan motor just to see if it's good, and provided it is like the ones used on manual climate control cars, it will have two wire connectors in the receptacle on the motor. One is hot and the other is a ground. Disconnect the fan from the car. Secure it in place. Using a suitable power source and a FUSED (20A) wiring set (12 gauge or better), energize the fan.

If you operate the fan in free air, be ready for the amount of air it moves and how it torques at startup. It's really quite impressive.
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Nick Danger

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:01 pm

uxwbill wrote:
r67northern wrote:
As for the fuse... This brings up an interesting question. This 95 RMW has a place for a blower fuse but no fuse there at all.
Truly interesting. I always thought the blower was fused separately with electronic climate controls as well, though I have no literature for any of the longroof cars that had electronic climate controls as an option.

r67northern wrote:
Actually there's no connection for the fuse in the panel either so it looks like the factory changed the way they wired things in somewhere along the line. At any rate, I pulled all of the fuses that may have even had a remote possibility and things looked ok. The way it just suddenly died though, my first thought was fuse too.
The fuse panels are common to a number of different vehicle models, so they will have empty spots for things that don't exist on your model. I don't know if you should have a fuse there or not. Usually if there are not even contacts there, the answer is that the fuse never did belong there.

If you want to test the old fan motor just to see if it's good, and provided it is like the ones used on manual climate control cars, it will have two wire connectors in the receptacle on the motor. One is hot and the other is a ground. Disconnect the fan from the car. Secure it in place. Using a suitable power source and a FUSED (20A) wiring set (12 gauge or better), energize the fan.

If you operate the fan in free air, be ready for the amount of air it moves and how it torques at startup. It's really quite impressive.


Laughing
I got a fan from the junk yard a couple of weeks ago, because of this thread. I tested it on the car battery in the parking lot. The fan nearly pulled itself out of my hand.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:01 pm

[quote="Nick Danger"]
uxwbill wrote:
r67northern wrote:
As for the fuse... This brings up an interesting question. This 95 RMW has a place for a blower fuse but no fuse there at all.
Truly interesting. I always thought the blower was fused separately with electronic climate controls as well, though I have no literature for any of the longroof cars that had electronic climate controls as an option.

r67northern wrote:
Actually there's no connection for the fuse in the panel either so it looks like the factory changed the way they wired things in somewhere along the line. At any rate, I pulled all of the fuses that may have even had a remote possibility and things looked ok. The way it just suddenly died though, my first thought was fuse too.
The fuse panels are common to a number of different vehicle models, so they will have empty spots for things that don't exist on your model. I don't know if you should have a fuse there or not. Usually if there are not even contacts there, the answer is that the fuse never did belong there.

If you want to test the old fan motor just to see if it's good, and provided it is like the ones used on manual climate control cars, it will have two wire connectors in the receptacle on the motor. One is hot and the other is a ground. Disconnect the fan from the car. Secure it in place. Using a suitable power source and a FUSED (20A) wiring set (12 gauge or better), energize the fan.

If you operate the fan in free air, be ready for the amount of air it moves and how it torques at startup. It's really quite impressive.


Laughing
I got a fan from the junk yard a couple of weeks ago, because of this thread. I tested it on the car battery in the parking lot. The fan nearly pulled itself out of my hand.[/quote

It appears that you have a live one.]
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r67northern

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:55 pm

Nick Danger wrote:


Laughing
I got a fan from the junk yard a couple of weeks ago, because of this thread. I tested it on the car battery in the parking lot. The fan nearly pulled itself out of my hand.

Probably a good thing that my "test" of the new one failed and it didn't turn on. I was just holding the motor side loosely by one hand on the floor of the car. I imagine things would have gotten exciting if it had really fired up.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:27 pm

They will give you a thrill when you are holding it in your hand.
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Sprocket

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:53 pm

I've had bad ones run when put on 12V directly. twice. then you put them back in and they don't work. Put a different one in and they are okay.

Got a dead one in my 94 right now too. Wife keeps complaining about it it not working and I keep saying, clean all the stuff out of the car so I can work in there. Still hasn't happened, and I'm leaving tomorrow for 3 weeks. I figure she's going to drive my car the whole time I'm gone.
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94X2

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:08 pm

Sprocket wrote:
Wife keeps complaining about it it not working and I keep saying, clean all the stuff out of the car so I can work in there. Still hasn't happened,


That sounds exactly like my wife. She'll also want to borrow my car when she has to take anyone with her since mine is generally clean.

Jon
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sherlock9c1



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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:58 pm

I've got a dying blower on my RMW right now too, ironically. Only mine is losing windings on the armature. If it stops on a dead winding, it won't restart unless I get moving pretty well and air forces itself through the HVAC housing, or I go around a sharp turn and the blower physically rotates enough to land on a working winding. I now believe it has enough broken windings so that as it runs on low speed, it sounds like a very quiet machine gun.

This is not the first blower I've seen with a dead winding too. A '93 Bonneville I worked on once had the same problem.

When testing, I would recommend slowly turning the fan by hand with an ohmmeter connected to the leads. Any open circuits indicate bad windings and the motor should be considered junk.

I've also heard that aftermarket motors often have fewer fan blades in their squirrel cages than OEM ones. Since the motors are often sized for the load created by a given size fan, I'd be loathe to simply swap fans. If you get an aftermarket replacement blower, count the fan blades on both the stock one and the replacement and post 'em up!
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r67northern

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:26 pm

Well, just to finish the story on my hvac troubles, thanks to Fred and a replacement controller the fan is alive again. Now I've just got to get the new fan back to our friends at Rock Auto.

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:49 am

Fred Kiehl wrote:
They will give you a thrill when you are holding it in your hand.
Trying to find 2 of the factory blowers so I can begin building my twin electric supercharger.I know its kind of a gag but you have to feel a difference as long as you somehow add
additional fuel when turned on for a few seconds but no longer than a few seconds.Already have a second optima yellow top to drive
1 of the fans.Not sure yet if the battery can run both fans for just a few seconds but will try.OK try to be nice guys but let the comments begin.Just for laughs anyway!
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gmtech

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:37 am

I know I am chiming in a little late on this, but here is a partial wiring diagram on the blower control circuit, indeed it is fused, as someone remarked with a 30A HVAC MOD FUSE that is HOT at all times. Hope this may provide some help to someone in the future.

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sherlock9c1



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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:42 pm

Just an update - I installed a Factory Air 35339 blower motor and fan from Advance Auto Parts. Fixed the "no fan" problem but the Factory Air squirrel cage is 1.5" shorter than the stock one and has ~31 blades vs. the factory ~49 blades. It does NOT move as much air on setting 4 and 5 as the stock one did. FYI.
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sherlock9c1



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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:46 pm

sherlock9c1 wrote:
Just an update - I installed a Factory Air 35339 blower motor and fan from Advance Auto Parts. Fixed the "no fan" problem but the Factory Air squirrel cage is 1.5" shorter than the stock one and has ~31 blades vs. the factory ~49 blades. It does NOT move as much air on setting 4 and 5 as the stock one did. FYI.
Hah, looks like I'm late to the party. Party link here:

http://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t5471-wagon-blower-motor-wheel?highlight=blower
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foglght



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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:47 am

95BRMW wrote:
Pull out the connectors on the BCM (blower control module) and take a look at the actual connectors on the BCM itself.  I had on 3 different cars the terminal that the orange wire goes to snap clean off from corrosion.  If it is broken off your gonna need a new module, pick one from any Roadmaster (I have had tbi ones function in LT1 cars despite what I have read), or a 95-99 buick riviera/olds aurora.  93-96 fleetwood ones work as well.  They are all the same and I have interchanged them successfully.
I just found this on my new wagon. The terminal spade had been corroded for a while and when I took the connector off it was missing from the module. interesting that it gets corroded in there with the rubber grommets surrounding the pins and connector.

If manual control its cheap. Of course, I have the auto climate control, so is 5x the price.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:33 am

foglght wrote:
95BRMW wrote:
Pull out the connectors on the BCM (blower control module) and take a look at the actual connectors on the BCM itself.  I had on 3 different cars the terminal that the orange wire goes to snap clean off from corrosion.  If it is broken off your gonna need a new module, pick one from any Roadmaster (I have had tbi ones function in LT1 cars despite what I have read), or a 95-99 buick riviera/olds aurora.  93-96 fleetwood ones work as well.  They are all the same and I have interchanged them successfully.
I just found this on my new wagon. The terminal spade had been corroded for a while and when I took the connector off it was missing from the module. interesting that it gets corroded in there with the rubber grommets surrounding the pins and connector.

If manual control its cheap. Of course, I have the auto climate control, so is 5x the price.
If you need a module, I have a few on hand. $50
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foglght



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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:38 am

Fred Kiehl wrote:
foglght wrote:
95BRMW wrote:
Pull out the connectors on the BCM (blower control module) and take a look at the actual connectors on the BCM itself.  I had on 3 different cars the terminal that the orange wire goes to snap clean off from corrosion.  If it is broken off your gonna need a new module, pick one from any Roadmaster (I have had tbi ones function in LT1 cars despite what I have read), or a 95-99 buick riviera/olds aurora.  93-96 fleetwood ones work as well.  They are all the same and I have interchanged them successfully.
I just found this on my new wagon. The terminal spade had been corroded for a while and when I took the connector off it was missing from the module. interesting that it gets corroded in there with the rubber grommets surrounding the pins and connector.

If manual control its cheap. Of course, I have the auto climate control, so is 5x the price.
If you need a module, I have a few on hand. $50
I would have, except I had to have it now since its getting cold here and my windshield needs defrosting. ARgh, $125.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Dead Blower   Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:05 am

I did not know where you are, so don't know what your situation is. Put your zip in your sig.
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