Looking at a RMW that needs a trans - suggestions needed!

Hey gang,

I've had a few wagons in the past, mostly BMWs.  But I'm now considering picking up a Roadmaster Estate to replace our 2004 Tahoe for towing and people hauling duties.

I found one locally that has everything I want except the hitch.  Only 2 owners, 130k miles, 94 so it has the LT1 and it has the tow package.

Unfortunately it has issues with the 3-4 shift.  I can at least drive it and see what else is wrong, and the price is right, but even with a mechanical engineering degree auto transmissions are a mystery to me.  I've only ever owned 3 cars with an auto.

I have to admit I like the idea of having a newly rebuilt trans in it if I'm going to be towing.  I can build it how I want, but again don't know what to ask.

So, thoughts on buying one with a bum trans?  It needs a few other trim items but most of the ones I have seen do.  I'm more interested in reliable for now, I can fix trim down the road even if it's hard to find.

Here's a link to the car:  seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4621947803.html

Oh and it's beige, but hey sleeper!

Thanks!
Ian

Ian:

You could be looking at $3k for a tranny rebuild or a rebuilt.  They are about the same cost out here.  If you can pick it up for cheap it may be worth it.  I suggest Ed's Transmission near northgate.

They know what the repair will be as they have been quoted a price and that is why they may be offloading.  Could be a gem with a mild rebuild.

Did you notice the front end bumper cover damage? I think you may be able to talk them down if it sits longer. The bumper cover will snap back into shape okay but you will need to locate a new stainless trim for the cover so it can go back to its original shape.

Have you driven it yet? Is the issue with the 3-4 shift or the shift from 2-3rd? If it's the 2-3 shift and if it is only a slight pause during the shift, or prolonged shift, then throw a bottle of Lucas additive in it and drive it till it fails.

Here is a thread with some useful information about the 4l60e transmission: https://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t6394-common-4l60e-problems

If you can install the transmission yourself you could save some of the cost. but I would still expect the cost of a rebuilt transmission to be over $1000.

It cost me $1300 to have my 4L60 (not e) rebuilt, and since then, I have found a really good shop that will do it for under $800 installed (look for hot rods or dragsters in the parking lot). In bigger cities the cost is somewhat higher than small town shops, so look around and get prices before you decide. If you want some upgrades, it will cost you a little more. It can be cheaper to get the one in your car rebuilt rather than going to a place that just swaps them with an on the shelf unit. The swap out guys charge you an average price to rebuild instead of repairing what is broken on yours.

If you are going to put a hitch on it, the class III is no longer available. There are drawings on the forum if you want to search for them. Then you can have one fabricated. Once in a while someone finds a used one, and those are the only ways you will get one.

THe best deal from a reputable nationwide company is through Rock Auto. Cost ~ $1,100 plus whatever shipping is involved. 3 years unlimited mileage. You can ask around you to see how much someone will charge to have it installed. These are better than new, hard parts and updated clutches.

Thanks for all the replies! I thought a rebuild might cost more. The quotes I got to rebuild the GM trans in our BMW were about $3k. I could install it myself but just don't have time these days.

I also appreciate the reminder about therarity of the hihitches. I saw a nice RMW in Philadelphia that had a hitch but it must have sold as the owner never contacted me.

Apologies for the slow response, I'm camping in Eastern Oregon with spotty reception.

Thanks!

Wagoninabox - thanks for the note, I am based in Portland but keep an eye on other markets. I might take you up on your offer to chat to learn what else to look for, and might need help looking at one in Seattle.

I can't PM yet or would have replied.

Thanks!
Ian

Thanks!

autoarcheologist wrote:

I'm camping in Eastern Oregon with spotty reception.

Thanks!

Is that a dalmation?

It all depends on what you intend on towing.  If all your towing is a pop up trailer or flat bed under about 4,000 lbs., than the stock setup is fine.  If your trailer is a full 5k-6k with all of the aerodynamic qualities of a grand piano with the lid open, than you have to seriously consider some internal upgrades and re-programming.  The 4l60s are not considered the strongest out there.

The issue I ran into is that most performance trannys are designed for the go-fast market.  Building a towing transmission is significantly different than one built for the track.  The latter is built to take the torque of hard launches and aggressive shifts while a tow trans has to withstand long periods of heavy power transfer, typically with the convertor locked up.  At the very least you should be looking at an up-grade torque convertor with the aggressive clutch material but keep with the lower stall speeds.  Another issue is full power downshifts while hill climbing.  This can be addressed for the most part by re-programming, but can put a lot of strain on the clutch packs and internal hard parts.

Any trans guy worth his/her salt can work with you to build a good solid trans that can take the abuse.  Or just find a good 4L80E and do the swap.  In stock trim, it can handle virtually anything that the LT1 can put out.  Regardless of what you do, double the cooler size.  Even if the car was an original tow pack car.  The stock coolers were designed by accountants.

Bill

After further discussions it turns out we both owned Alfa Romeo Berlinas, which was a crazy coincidence. Turns out the wagon is a 2 owner car, all maintenance records, but a little tired. So the seller sweetened the deal a little by throwing in a spare Alfa Romeo engine he no longer needed after selling his Berlina, so we made a deal.  Now I just need to get up to Seattle to pick up the car, hopefully next week.  This week I need to prep our trailer for a rally this coming weekend.

I read here that you can tow a RMW with the rear wheels on the ground if you leave the engine running with the trans in neutral.  True?  That would be cheaper than renting a full trailer.  I'm not sure if I should drive it home with the 3/4 clutch out.  He claims it will shift up into 3, but I'd rather not end up on the side of the road.

Here's a few shots for now.  First up is the new trans, then finding a hitch, redying the steering wheel, a new grill and some trim repairs.







Can't wait to get started!

Well congrats then! Keep us posted on the outcome on the tranny fix.

I will! Time to research some local builders. I'm not in a hurry since we still have a perfectly good Tahoe, so I can have them rebuild the existing trans, or just swap it.

If you want to meet up when I pick it up let me know! I'm not sure if I'm coming up during the week or the weekend of the 20th just yet. Would love to pick your brain, and I'll buy the beer.

Cheers,
Ian

Just noticed you own Alfas I do also not a Berlina but 3 spiders and a GTV 6. Jeff

Ha, small world! I had a 71 spider for 10 years, have had a few Berlinas, a GTV project and Alfetta GT project, and used a Milano 3.0 and 164 LS as daily drivers. GTV6 is probably the first car on my list to replace the Berlina. It's one of the cars that got me into Alfas, and I've almost owned a few, just never found the right one at the right price!

3 spiders, I think you need to let us help you keep them exercised!

I think we need another t-56 wagon ;-)

Most who flat tow these cars remove the driveshaft. How long of a trip is it to pickup? I bought my Fleetwood with a burnt 3/4 clutch and drove it 100 miles home in 2nd gear.
Congrats on the new wagon!

Hi Ian, I do not have enough posts to reply to your PM.  Here is your transmission/towing fix:
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/cto/46349629222.html

Metro Transmission in Woodland,WA is the local builder of choice for this transmission and who I used for my car.  Mark is the owner and will steer you right.

Thanks for the transmission recommendation. I saw your car, looks really nice and priced fairly, but I'm in the mood for a budget rebuild and really wanted a Roadmaster. Otherwise I agree it would be a great tow beast, but I'd have to change the rear end.

As for the trip, it's about 150 miles. I suppose I could do it, but not sure I want to risk it. I've done dumber things...

The driveshaft only takes a few minutes to remove and is easy to get under there when the wagon is on a tow dolly.

Your Tahoe should be able to handle it fine.

Just do it right and mark the driveshaft remove the 4 bolts watch out for the needle bearings (don't loose them) and slide it out of the trans. I understand you can get a plug for the trans so it will not lose fluid on your tow. It was discussed here a few weeks ago you can do a search.

Mine was a Florida car that made its way to Michigan and it was towed it from Michigan to Alabama. It was not without incident I blew a tire on my tow dolly. I should have replaced the tires before the trip being 8 years old also blew a tire on the towed car once when towing an Alfa back from Tuscon that was not fun either. So make sure the rubber on the road is in good shape.  Jeff

I think i saw that thread. Someone recommended putting the car in neutral with the engine running but I new to check on that. I will also check into the plug and removing the driveahaft.

I hear you on good tires. I put LT tires on the Streamline as I don't trust the current crop of Chinese made ST tires. 10k miles with no issues on them.

Just take the bolts out of the U joint caps, pop the joint out with a pry bar, move the shaft over, and tie it tightly to the exhaust. Use something like a ratcheting strap. No need to remove it so you have to plug the tailshaft.

phantom 309 wrote:

autoarcheologist wrote:

I'm camping in Eastern Oregon with spotty reception.

Thanks!

Is that a dalmation?

Incontinence.

The seller sent me the option codes today, it has G80! Woo hoo!