BAD WAG build

Finally finished installing the CVF Racing serpentine system. I need to figure out the power steering hose setup and how to get them made. These is a shop here that specializes in just hoses. I also might have to re-clock the alternator as I’m at the max on adjustment.

BAD_WAG wrote:

Hey Fred - As I looked close at these headers, I wondered about the area I have circled.  I contacted the seller and that is a weld joint.  Which, I thought is very strange as in all the headers I have seen in my years, I don't recall seeing a weld joint right there.

Those two bends are probably too close together to be able to bend it as one piece. Many, many, super high end headers are made entirely out of welded in sections as they can make them fit better and flow match and length match better.

As long as they weld well, without flash on the inside of the tube, I would look at it as a probably plus in the design as they obviously spent more money to it. Probably to improve fit without kinking or dimpling the tubes.

[/quote]

Those two bends are probably too close together to be able to bend it as one piece.  Many, many, super high end headers are made entirely out of welded in sections as they can make them fit better and flow match and length match better.

As long as they weld well, without flash on the inside of the tube, I would look at it as a probably plus in the design as they obviously spent more money to it.  Probably to improve fit without kinking  or dimpling the tubes.[/quote]

Valid points. Just at first look it seemed strange as I mentioned I haven't seen that before. Definitely does not enhance the look of the header.

Many headers have welded sections. I do not think that would be an issue with performance. I had sections welded into my headers to allow them to fit. I would not exclude them because of that.

Here is one with lots of welding.

Yep, it sure does!

That is a $1000 four cylinder header

booster wrote:

That is a $1000 four cylinder header  

Wow! It is a custom header.

Started installing the radiator support & radiator

Any updates?

Fred - Yeah, one step forward and two steps backwards. I installed the flex plate! But when I tried to mount the transmission I couldn’t get the alignment pegs / bolt holes to line up. I couldn’t get the transmission up high enough and it was hitting the underside of the trans tunnel. Upon further inspection, I discovered that the engine oil pan is resting on the crossmember, which is not allowing it to tilt back any for the transmission. Plus when I put the engine in, I did it by myself, the oil pan crushed the brake line. So I need to pull the engine back out and find a different oil pan ( I have a stock pan on it) that will clear the crossmember. Plus replace the brake line.

A buddy suggested Moroso pan part numbers #20403 or #20408 might be good options.

I used the original LO5 engine mounts on the BB. I forget which pan I used on my first BB. A pan that has a sump 10 inches front to back should clear the back of the cradle. If you are not going to lower the car, the Speedmaster finned pan should fit, and if you move the drain to the side It will be safe. You need to hog out a few perimeter holes, because they are not cast correctly. I used a silicone reinforced with steel as a template to correct the spacing. If you want more oil capacity, you can add kick outs to the aluminum pan. I would also add an oil retention box with flaps if you add the kick outs to the Speedmaster pan.
Make and install the brake line before you reinstall the engine. Make sure the intake is not hitting the cowl and impeding the tilt of the engine.

I was going to measure the stock pan and see what clearance I need, your info helps.

Yes, I’ll replace the brake line before I put the engine back in.

When I did the drivetrain rebuild on the 96 RMW I noticed right away the hazard of the brake line being on top of the crossmember and in danger of getting damaged, even from tilting the engine to get the transmission out, unless it hits the firewall first. I moved the line to to the rear face of the crossmember to protect it from damage.

booster wrote:

When I did the drivetrain rebuild on the 96 RMW I noticed right away the hazard of the brake line being on top of the crossmember and in danger of getting damaged, even from tilting the engine to get the transmission out, unless it hits the firewall first.  I moved the line to to the rear face of the crossmember to protect it from damage.

Good idea!

My brake line was lower on the cross member, and I crushed it anyway when installing my 454. I stabbed the engine and transmission in one piece. In your case you would have to remove the intake, and install it after installing the two as a unit.

Fred Kiehl wrote:

My brake line was lower on the cross member, and I crushed it anyway when installing my 454. I stabbed the engine and transmission in one piece. In your case you would have to remove the intake, and install it after installing the two as a unit.

Yeah, as I’ll pull the radiator support off, I have plenty of room to install the engine & transmission as one unit. I didn’t actually install the tunnel ram, just had it sitting in place.

Jack the rear of the trans as you lower the engine once the pan is past the engine cradle. I installed mine with the distributor and a single plane manifold in place. I should have installed them after I installed the engine, but I had to install them as a unit to get the distributor under the cowl. I have since gone to a distributor eliminator (cam sensor), and crank sensor arrangement, and that allows me to remove the distributor eliminator without taking out the intake. I did enlarge the hole for the distributor to the size of a 91-93 distributor (when I first installed the intake because I used the 91-93 distributor), and made an adapter to center, and position the distributor eliminator. The distributor eliminator has an adjustable ring to set the depth. It is a split ring, so I put some silicone under the split to seal it.

For reference, here’s how it’s sitting on the cradle.

That really sucks.

Forgot to ask what mark/gen the engine is.

From a 71’ Chevelle, Mark IV correct?

I have a gen VI, so the pan I used will not fit your engine. Mine is a one piece rear main seal, and yours is a two piece. The pans are not interchangeable. There are a lot of other minor differences, but the the internals are not the issue.

Are you using a flat tappet cam, or did you go to a roller one?

Ok, makes sense. I need to measure and see what pan will fit.

I went with a roller cam

Roller cams are much more reliable than flat tappet. No break-in necessary.

The 10 inch measurement for the sump should still be relevant.

Thanks! I’ll call Summit and see what they suggest, as the ones on their website don’t have all the measurements I need to know.

I checked Summit Racing, and the Moroso pans do have measurements. I am wary of the Summit brand pans, because I tried 2 of them and had to return them because they were warped.

When I looked at Summit brands, the comments were the same as your experience. Didn’t see anyone happy with them.

Fred - I did some measurements and called Summit. I think this pan will work (haven't ordered it yet). The real issue is clearing the cradle, as we have discussed, this pan has a sump length of 8 3/4 inches, most other pans are 10 inches long which impacts the clearance past the cradle. I'm not sure of the overall length, I forgot to ask and can't find a measurement. I haven't pulled the engine back out yet, too busy with other stuff.

BBC pans are all the same length overall.

Looks like it will work.

Thanks Fred!

Pulled the engine back out yesterday, did some measurements and that oil pan I posted in the previous post should work. I’ll get it ordered.

Bad Wag oil pan saga continues: One step forward, two steps backward. I bought the new pan, but can’t test fit as the oil pickup hits that circled section (the baffle). The guy at the speed shop did say the new pan comes with a suggested Moroso pickup tube. I just thought/hoped the installed pickup would work. I was wrong. So I’ll go get the new Moroso pickup tube.

I haven't done this before, but I assume I’ll need to grind off the tack weld to remove the old pickup, install new one and tack weld it. Learning this stuff as I go..

It looks like the sump has added depth. A pickup designed for the modified pan would probably be longer as well.

Stock pumps have press fit pickups, so you might want to check if the Moroso pickup works with your pump.

Great idea.

A lot of the after market pickups have a flange that bolts to the body the oil pump. The manufacturer should have a compatible pickup. I would use a high volume oil pump as well.

It has a high volume pump on it, so good there.

Check with the manufacturer for the correct pickup.

Oil pan issue continued: So after going to the speed shop and talking to them. They called Moroso to see what they say. They did a test on an engine and said it all fits. They suggested I try oil pan pn 20401. So I exchanged the oil pan for it. Put it on the engine and same issue. The oil pan contacts the oil pump and the holes will not line up. I put the stock oil pan on and it fits perfectly. See pics where the corner of the oil pump is hitting the pan. I don't get it, this doesn't make sense. I don't think I can grind down that corner as that is a spot where it can come apart.

You can grind that off without hurting anything. You could even make a small relief in the pan for the pump instead.

Update:  I took the oil pump off and ground down the corner.  Took maybe one minute, super easy.  Put the pump back on and the pan fits perfectly.

if that is all you took off, it won't be a problem.

One more little quirk conquered. Keep plugging and you will get there.

Yep, now to see how it fits in the bay.

Temp installed the oil pan, Moroso PN 20401, on the engine and dropped the engine in the bay. Looking like I have plenty of clearance now.

Taa Daa!!!


Well Done!

Goal accomplished...Forward Ho.

looks really good so far!

glad to see the new pan works as intended too!

Make sure the steering cross link does not hit the bottom of the pan. You can make a relief along the bottom if it does.