Century or Ciera wagons.'94-'96 with 3.1 V6 opinions?

Thinking of picking up one of these nice mid-size wagons if the mileage and price is right. Anyone here have any first hand experience with them?

I wouldn't.

If you back down a few years to 91-93 you should be able to find one with a Buick 3300 which is a destroked 3800. Vastly better engine.

Hey Steve,although not a wagon I had a 93 Buick Regal with the 3.1 and 188,000 miles.Ran great,very quick and economic.Beware of the trans because they dont hold up to abuse or
neglect.If you hear,feel or smell anything odd,WALK AWAY!
IMHO
JG

You could get a 3.8 in the late 80's Ciera models, along with full gauges with a tach, a floor shifter, and nicer seats.

The Pontiac 6000 S/E wagon was 3/4's of an STE with a wagon back, but good luck finding one now.....ditto the Eurosport wagon, but keep in mind the Poncho and Chevy had the 2.8-3.1 60-degree V6's, not the better Buick 3.3-3.8.

There are still some out there though...

http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/2537746833.html - CLEAN low-mile 86 Celebrity wgn

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/cto/2520632392.html - 86 Century

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/cto/2554284748.html - 92 Century

Never cared for the looks of the Pontiac 6000 in any form.The Chevy version, always looked cheap with it's black plastic side moulding and trim pieces. Seems almost every Celebrity suffered more body rot issues (even the rear bumpers ) than it's GM cousins. I'd prefer a Century over the less sporty-ish looking Ciera.I had a carbed 1986 Ciera with the 2.8 V6. Had all of 112 h.p!!
With 160 h.p. the 3.1 V6s were widely used in many GM front drive vehicles for many years, more so than the 3.3. Why do you think that was? Did the 3.3 have inherent problems?
Still finding some LOW mileage '94-'96 Ciera and Centurys out there. Not many wagons though Some dealers think they can actually ask $5K for a 15+year old just 'cause the mileage is super low (30-60K).I'd be willing to go no higher than $3500 but NO WOODIE!!

The 3.3 and 3.1 V6s had the same exact horsepower and torque ratings of 160 h.p. & 185 ft. lbs. of torque. I assume the 3.1 was either a bit lighter and probably more fuel efficient.
I was surprised to read that the 3.8 V6 in the late' 80s only produced 150 h.p. but a bit more torque (200 ft. lbs.) than the 3.1. The cars so equipped with the 3.1 V6 were likely able to sprint a respectable high 16 second 1/4 mile run. Certainly not a mid 15 second run like the LT1 wagons.
I do know that the 3.1 mid size GM cars of the 90s weren't computer restricted on top speed. Left in top gear,expect no more than 107 m.p.h. , however, left in 3rd, expect 115-117 m.p.h.

TylerW wrote:

I wouldn't.

If you back down a few years to 91-93 you should be able to find one with a Buick 3300 which is a destroked 3800. Vastly better engine.

Why is that? The 3100 is a great engine. You can't kill them. I've had two cars with them and both were drop dead reliable.

Cadet57 wrote:

TylerW wrote:

I wouldn't.

If you back down a few years to 91-93 you should be able to find one with a Buick 3300 which is a destroked 3800. Vastly better engine.

Why is that? The 3100 is a great engine. You can't kill them. I've had two cars with them and both were drop dead reliable.

It's not the engine itself. It's the fact that they have suffered a lot of lower intake gasket failures. I will concede that 94-95 is right before the introduction of Dexcool, so you may be fine with one of that vintage but I certainly wouldn't deal with one post-dexcool era.

Maybe vastly better is an overstatement, but Buick V6 has a reputation that stands on it's own for sure.

3800..good,.
3100,...crap.

phantom 309 wrote:

3800..good,.
3100,...crap.

The 3.8 in the mid size wagons had less h.p. by 10 than the 3.1. 3100 is crap? Really? Explain please (no abbreviations though, I'm old school and like to see the entire typed word).

Love to see the outcome in the 1/4 mile and a top speed run between a NON LT1 wagon and a mid-size GM wagon with the "crap" 3100 V6.

Steve Smith wrote:

Love to see the outcome in the 1/4 mile and a top speed run between a NON LT1 wagon and a mid-size GM wagon with the "crap" 3100 V6.

Then go buy the two wagons and let us know how it comes out,.perhaps a 3100 gm forum is where you need to be,.
nick

Hey the 3.1 in AJ's VR wagon runs awesome with over 200K miles on it. He's still loving this car...and it's easy to find in the Wal Mart parking lot!

phantom 309 wrote:

Steve Smith wrote:

Love to see the outcome in the 1/4 mile and a top speed run between a NON LT1 wagon and a mid-size GM wagon with the "crap" 3100 V6.

Then go buy the two wagons and let us know how it comes out,.perhaps a 3100 gm forum is where you need to be,.
nick

Hey come on now, this isn't a 3800 forum either.

Steve, I think you would be fine with a 3100, just be mindful of the dexcool-related problems that are known to plague them. That mainly is failure of the lower intake manifold gasket.

The 3800 had just as many of those kind of issues itself, but I believe the 3300 was out of production before then.

If you find a car be sure to post pictures and details, I'm sure we'd all like to see it.

GM moved to the Series II 3800 in 1995-96, and with it the plastic intake plenum. The Series II had more power than the Series I, but the DexCool and plastic intake are the weak links, and on the Supercharged 3800's, the intake gaskets are prone to failure.

On the upside, the intakes cost nothing now...and it's not a hard job. On my Bonneville's I changed the intake every 50-60K just to be safe....and flushed all the Dex-Cool out right away, as I do on any car I buy with Dex-Crap in it. I've got about 10K miles before I'm doing the intake on her '01 Grand Prix again. Such fun.

The 1994 and previous 3800's with the aluminum intakes were bulletproof, and the 3300 is just a de-stoked 3800. They're tough and run forever.

About the only negative issue I ever had with a GM 2.8-3.1 60-degree V6 was a aluminum heater fitting on the intakes. They rot and leak and when you try to remove them the threads break off inside the intake....terrible design. The replacments are steel.

Such fun!

-Mike

My ex wife had a Ciera sedan with the 2.8 fuel injected V6 . I believe it had about 125 h.p. Ran pretty good, and with no engine (motor) issues I can remember.
I do have a '98 Grand Prix GTP with 79K miles on it and currently has a GM recall for the leaky valve cover gasket for the front cover.

And in case I "pushed any buttons" in a couple recent threads, sorry 'bout that, thought this was a "general"wagon discussion area. Seems all that's ever discussed (with little exception),is our full size wagons. Guess the mid-size GM wagons, especially front wheel drive cars have little respect here. I like 'em all.

Which one came with DOHC and spent most of its time in the shop with recalls?A soldier that
worked part time for me bought a 91 or 92 new and had to take it back to the dealer within
a week.That car stayed at the dealership and they never got it fixed!When he got out of the
service he went back to Texas and sold it.
JG

I had a 92 Buick Century wagon. MIL bought new.. Was a great car for her. I used it for about 5 years . I beat this living piss out of it. Only problem I had was the MAFs crapping out. Found a local junk yard that guarantied the used ones for "life" A little dash fire ended it's life a few years ago. Then we got a 92 Olds CC. Has the optional 3.8 V6. Runs a lot better than most LT1s I have walked away from.

I've had both a '92 Century with the 3.3 and a '94 Century with the 3.1. Both were excelent cars, still are actually, my brother has the 92 and my dad has the 94. The 94 has had a few more issues than the 92 and feels underpowered in comparison. If I were to buy another one I personally would shoot for one with the 3.3.

I've had several dozen of both and though the 3.1's have those intake gasket problems, they're not bad cars. Buy one with a good original gasket and immediately replace with a FelPro, or a replaced gasket that's at least a couple thousand miles old (see below.) They plumbed these later A body brakes in X fashion and never seem to proportion right - most have some rear wheel lockup that needs addressing. Personally, I love the 93's (Buick Century and Olds Ciera only by then) with the 3.3 (agreed vastly better engine IMHO) but also air bags and ABS. Plus you can find DGGM or DCM 93 (and 4-6) and dress it up like a WB4 RMW (add Regal wheels, which look like 91-94 RMW wheels.) If you really need 20 mpg in town rather than 16, and it keeps you from buying a Ford, go for it!

Final 3.1 note - many owners don't notice that the intake has blown until the crankcase is full of water. Then they fix the gasket. Then you buy the car. Then the motor knocks 100 miles after you've bought it (speaking from experience, and yes more than once!) Water is not a good lubricant except on a slip n' slide. If you go for a 3.1, go eyes wide open.

A 90 Eurosport wagon with a floor shift is kind of cool, too.

I've always wanted to build a 3.8 supercharged 93 Century wagon. ECM's are plug and play from Ultra or 98 touring SC 3.8... Not sure what other issues might come up but might be a fun project!

I hate posting after many of you, especially Fred, have spoken, but I can share my experience:

The 2.8L preceded the 3.1L, and I owned 2:

-- 1980 Citation, new, was a POS I had to dump at around 12K.
-- 1986 6000STE was sweet. Well, I only had it from 12K to around 24K, but I'm sure the Citation was in the junkyard well before 24K.

Word was that with the 3.1, GM finally "got it right." At least in comparison with the 2.8. So when generalizations are made about the 60-degrees, most of the blame is on the 2.8s.

Rode 83 miles on Sat to check out a 1994 Century wagon at a used car dealership. Gold with tan interior. Woodgrain delete, most factory options including...power windows, power locks, 6 way power driver's seat, power reclining passenger seat ,power antenna, power mirrors, roof rack, cruise control. rear window defogger, rear wiper/washer, 3rd row seating, one owner,never repainted with shiny paint, factory alum wheels, brand new cat back exhaust, 3.1 V6 and only 70K miles.
No rot anywhere. Under side looked excellent (I actually laid on the asphalt and stuck my head under the car)

To bad they weren't interested in my 2008 Suzuki Bandit 1250 as a trade

Anyone want to buy my beautiful bike?

Hey Steve...how about an update on this....;-)

I actually worked out a deal with the used car dealership 1 week after I checked it out. Rode my bike up there on a Fri with persistant, and sometimes heavy rain for 83 miles. Sucked! Drove the car home with me. Car now has 71,100 miles on it.
Now that I've had plenty of time to get used to the car, a comparison to my '96 Roadmaster wagon is now possible
1) This Century has approx 20K less miles than the big brother, all original paint, which the roadie is envious of, and an interior that could pass for a 1 year old car. My Roadie is decent inside, but no where near as nice condition as the Century.
2) the Roadie rides much smoother
3) Roadie has a more comfortable and quieter interior (Century is free of squeeks and rattles but not as well insulated from road noise
4) 6 speaker premium sound system in Roadie better than 4 speaker system in Century
5) Doors close quieter on Roadie
6) 3.1 V6 is spunky but LT1 would easilly dust it
7) 3.1 easier on gas (duh!)
I actually miss the driver's window auto down feature of the Roadie
9) no remote key fob for the Century, Gotta unlock the doors the old fassion way!
10) power locks in Century a lot louder when activated

Basically, I will be selling the Century and look forward to driving big blue again soon.

Steve

Kinda confused Steve but these days thats not surprising.Exactly why did you buy the century?
Jim

My small body shop business has really taken a financial hit with this damn recession. I tried to sell my Suzuki on ebay 3 times but it didn't reach my reserve price. I knew if I was to be financially secure enough to get me through the Winter, I'd have to sell one of my vehicles.
Plan "B" was to get a smaller car (hopefully a wagon), and reluctantly sell my Roadmaster if the bike wouldn't sell. I'd been looking for a Century or Olds Ciera wagon for a few months and then found this sweet 1 owner, low mileage '94 Century on ebay. I called the used car dealership and asked if they would consider a motorcycle as a trade.
Once I did the trade deal with the bike, I was going to do some needed cosmetic work to the Roadmaster and see if I could get enough money for it to cover my monthly bills for at least 4-5 months. Turns out, I like the Roadmaster a lot more than the Century, so it's the Century that will be sold.
Being poor sucks big time!

Well I could have told you that and yes being poor sucks big time!
Jim

At least Post up pics of your new whip. You'll have to take some to sell it anyway.

Sorry to hear your car ended up being like what everyone but you knew it'd be like.

Also, wealth is a subjective measurement. Being poor doesn't suck, being unhappy is what sucks - and if you think that the two are connected, you're a fool.

I hope the sale of your extra, very nice car brings you all the happiness you're hoping for.

Well John I will take being rich and miserable over poor and miserable anyday but I understand what you mean!
Jim

Oh yeah, and no tailgate to have tailgate parties on I assumed there would be some distinct differences between the two besides the power plant, however, no 2nd hand advice can properly cue someone in nearly as well as owning and driving one for weeks. I suppose if I started out with the Century instead of the Roadie, I'd probably be content. It's still a nice car, guess I'm spoiled by the big blue Buick boat.

Admit it Steve these big wagons remind most of us of our childhood.Since you and I are the same age I am pretty sure the memories are very similiar.Riding in the 3rd seat looking out the back window brings back some great memories.
Jim

My Dad had a couple full size wagons back when I was a kid. He bought a brand new '61 Chevy Brookwood "bottom of the line" with an inline 6 cylinder and auto transmission and an am radio. WOOHOO!!!!! White with a blue interior. Then he upgraded to a new '66 Impala wagon with power rear window, am radio ,automatic, and a 283 V8. YEAH BABY!! Medium blue metallic with a black vinyl interior. Gonna have to see if I have any pix.

My first wagon memory was of a 59 rambler with a 2 tone red and white paint job.Then dad went
strictly ford starting with a 61 falcon,63 galaxie,65 galaxie,70 galaxie and lastly a 73 country
squire.Along the way there was another 61 rambler and a 69 390 galaxie.After all of us kids started
driving and the need for a wagon disappeared.As mom and dad grew older they again saw the
sensibility of wagons and had a 88 and a 95 Taurus wagon.Dad currently has a 04 Crown Vic
which is a pretty impressive car especially the rack and pinion steering.And it handles very
good too.
Jim

Turns out my new neighbors from the "Caddy Shack" thread have a like new 96 Century longroof, white with gray interior. I'll post pics once things slow down.

My own best experience with the A-wagons was after 1st wife got into the home daycare business. She was looking for something bigger than her Honda. We drove a Eurosport longroof and she said, "it feels just llike my Honda." Having owned or still owning a 6000 STE at the time, I should have jumped on that and found a way to pay for it. Ah the ones that get away...

Bone Stock wrote:

Turns out my new neighbors from the "Caddy Shack" thread have a like new 96 Century longroof, white with gray interior. I'll post pics once things slow down.

Well things haven't slowed down much, but I did grab a quick pic while walking by:



Also notice the a$$-end a boxy Caddy Superior limo and next to the Century an 89 fwd C-body Fleetwood, just 2 of the 5 Caddys now owned by this guy. More on them later.

this thread is getting more miles on it than any of the pos cars ever did,.

Nick

Bone Stock wrote:

Bone Stock wrote:

Turns out my new neighbors from the "Caddy Shack" thread have a like new 96 Century longroof, white with gray interior. I'll post pics once things slow down.

Well things haven't slowed down much, but I did grab a quick pic while walking by:



Also notice the a$$-end a boxy Caddy Superior limo and next to the Century an 89 fwd C-body Fleetwood, just 2 of the 5 Caddys now owned by this guy. More on them later.

Oh Lord I think I see my old POS Ford Aerostar in the background. Now I'm going to have Dustbuster nightmares tonight.....arrgghhh!!

Mike you have nitemares even over the cars you didnt like?Mike I forgot to ask,did you guys ever
get any rain down there?
Jim

Flasheroo wrote:

Mike you have nitemares even over the cars you didnt like?Mike I forgot to ask,did you guys ever
get any rain down there?
Jim

That Aerostar was the WORST vehicle I ever owned....the four letter word on the grill should have been warning enough...but noooo. Yes I still have nightmares about that rolling door stop.

As for rain, not a drop. The front came through, but rain did not come south of Dallas. Thanksfully it's much cooler now but the lakes are still dropping and we're still in major water restrictions. We generally get rain in Sept and Oct and then again in March and April. So far this fall, like this past summer and spring, has been a bust. Scary how dry it is.

Sorry to hijack the thread....back to the A-car wagon discussion.

-Mike

phantom 309 wrote:

this thread is getting more miles on it than any of the pos cars ever did,.

Nick

spit my coke out, that's funny

81X11 wrote:

Oh Lord I think I see my old POS Ford Aerostar in the background. Now I'm going to have Dustbuster nightmares tonight.....arrgghhh!!

I knew this would happen. I should have mentioned the Aerostar owner is not the Caddy owner, nor is the A-wagon owner for that matter. But both are Caddy guys to one extent or another. You pretty much have to be to live with a 90-year old relative who at any given time has around five Cadillacs. Finding and restoring barn cars at 90 requires some helping hands.

Next Caddy post is to the Caddy Shack thread unless you guys keep egging me on.