Z28 Gauges with PRNDL just hit the front porch

Thanks both to member Scot and Gary Mier, I have a holiday project ahead.

Went home at lunch and found my early Christmas gift on the front porch. Gary did a great job adding the PRNDL and I like the white gauge needles as well.



I may try to use my old cluster's clear lens as this one has some hazing. It's not bad but I think the one in my car now is better. Also going to plug the unused hole that was for the Roady trip odometer. I still have a few Citation X-11 gauge clusters and when GM added the tach to those they pugged the lens hole for the clock adjustment rod with a little black button. Going to use one of those on the Roday lens.



I'm a little torn about changing all the bulbs. The PRNDL is going to light up the stock Roady blue/green color. I'm guessing the rest of the cluster would light up white. I know I could install blue bulbs in the cluster and that is supposed to "green it up", but have not decided if I want to have two different colors of green or just leave the main gauges white. Guess I'll pick up a set of blue bulbs and once it's all plugged in and dark make that decision.

The odometer is set to zero. Nothing like a fresh start!



Will update the thread when I get started on the install. I have to work this week so will be next week sometime before I tear into this. Can't wait! These gauges are SO SHARP!

Such fun,

-Mike

That's a pretty professional looking panel. Looks completely OEM.

I've got to figure out the best place to run the tach wire through the firewall, and also where exactly it plugs in. I believe it plugs in to the PCM under the air filter housing but have not gotten that far yet.

I bought a Harbor Freight generic Dremel-style tool to cut the dash plastic behind the cluster, and am about to go to the parts store for a socket to remove the oil pressure sending unit. The cluster came with the correct sending unit, but I need the tool.

I also need to find out if folks that have done this swap have just zip-tied up the two plug/connections on the back of the cluster or if they clip them on somewhere. Don't want any new rattles.

I'm itching to work on this. Kinda doubt I'll make it until next week before tearing into this.

I love a project!

-Mike

Mike,you can pick up some fairing shield scratch remover at any motorcycle shop.On interior
dash plastic rub it in with your fingers in a circular motion and remove with the softest cloth
you can find.Dont use a microfiber cloth but I get the super soft cloths from Pep Boys.You will
know what I am talking about as soon as you touch it.May take a few times but my OCC
cluster looks like new.
Jim

Thanks for the tip Jim!

Red connector, pin A13 for the tach, if memory serves correctly.

I went and bought four packages of 194B bulbs last night. Blue bulbs. Figure I'll see how these look. The dash on our cars tends to be more bluish-green than bright blue.

I mentioned this to one of the guys in my local club and he told me to go to Pep Boys for some "Bulb Condoms". ???? Said the ricers love them.

Found this link: http://www.empirechromeshop.com/p-5478-small-rubber-light-bulb-cover-6pack-various-colors.aspx

They do make them in green. Hmmmm.

We'll see.

Oh also did a little work to the gauges last night. Added a Buick tri-shield decal to the gauge face and also installed a black plug over the open hole where the Roady trip-odo re-set button was. Pics to follow.

I got some lens polish and rubbed the heck out of the lens. It looks better but still has some scratches. I may still try to use the lens off my stock face. We'll see.

I really want to get this put in. Itching to take the dash apart.

-Mike

81X11 wrote:

I went and bought four packages of 194B bulbs last night. Blue bulbs. Figure I'll see how these look. The dash on our cars tends to be more bluish-green than bright blue.

I mentioned this to one of the guys in my local club and he told me to go to Pep Boys for some "Bulb Condoms". ???? Said the ricers love them.

Found this link: http://www.empirechromeshop.com/p-5478-small-rubber-light-bulb-cover-6pack-various-colors.aspx

They do make them in green. Hmmmm.

We'll see.

Looks like you can actually get green bulbs....and the "condoms" can melt, so the bulbs would be a better idea...

So green or blue...or just keep the white? http://www.empirechromeshop.com/p-1693-194-incandescent-light-bulb-pair-various-colors.aspx

What kind of lense polish did you use?I have had the best luck with the Yamaha brand and
remember that SOFT cloth otherwise you are just putting more scratches back on it.
Jim

Flasheroo wrote:

What kind of lense polish did you use?I have had the best luck with the Yamaha brand and
remember that SOFT cloth otherwise you are just putting more scratches back on it.
Jim

It's something I found at Wal-Mart last night. Looks a lot better now but still has a few scratches in it.

Very cool! It even came with a half tank of gas!

I've had good luck with the autometer bulb condoms. Never had one melt. Are you sure the bulbs are replacable? Pretty sure the bulb and socket are one piece, unless you have stock of old s10 sockets or you can get em on ebay...

toomanytoyz wrote:

Very cool! It even came with a half tank of gas!

I've had good luck with the autometer bulb condoms. Never had one melt. Are you sure the bulbs are replacable? Pretty sure the bulb and socket are one piece, unless you have stock of old s10 sockets or you can get em on ebay...

Bill did you change the color on yours or did you leave them white? If you did change the color, what did you use?

Gotta love 200 questions!

-Mike

"Bulb condoms",wonder how many jokes have been made over that name?Sure has to be way
cheaper and easier than replacing those fragile bulbs!
Jim

Mike - Find someone in your area who carries NOVUS Polish. There stuff is hands down THEE BEST ON THE MARKET. If you cant find it local you can get it from them direct. They have a 8 oz. starter kit for $32.00 perfect for what your doing. I have used this on my clusters, works great on lexan, and works really well on helmet shields.

http://www.novuspolish.com/index.html

Autometer sells the "Bulb Condoms"

81X11 wrote:

I went and bought four packages of 194B bulbs last night. Blue bulbs. Figure I'll see how these look. The dash on our cars tends to be more bluish-green than bright blue.

I mentioned this to one of the guys in my local club and he told me to go to Pep Boys for some "Bulb Condoms". ???? Said the ricers love them.

Found this link: http://www.empirechromeshop.com/p-5478-small-rubber-light-bulb-cover-6pack-various-colors.aspx

They do make them in green. Hmmmm.

We'll see.

I tried the blue bulbs. I collected a bunch with the sockets from junk yards. Keep in mind the Camaro bulbs are 161 bulbs and ours are 194 (brighter). I did not like the blue. It did give a slightly green hue to the white, but was not bright enough for me. You could try the green http://www.bulbtown.com/PC194G_GREEN_MINIATURE_BULB_PC_SOCKET_BASE_p/pc194g.htm from Bulbtown, but I ordered new white. Colors get pricey. LMK how the green works if you get them.

1phastsswagon wrote:

Mike - Find someone in your area who carries NOVUS Polish. There stuff is hands down THEE BEST ON THE MARKET. If you cant find it local you can get it from them direct. They have a 8 oz. starter kit for $32.00 perfect for what your doing. I have used this on my clusters, works great on lexan, and works really well on helmet shields.

http://www.novuspolish.com/index.html

Autometer sells the "Bulb Condoms"

I used some plastic polish and my buffer with foam pads to polish the plastic. I did put a mark in it when I re-installed mine, so I might re polish it as well.

Good luck pulling those wires....... B TW I used some black RTV on the wire to seal the grommet back up.

How soft was the pad Tim?I just polished the wire hubcap center disc on my RMW.Tried all of
my polishes out and the Mequiars Ultimate Compound polished those acrylic disc to a mirror
finish.2 of the disc had some very deep scratches too.I used a Mequiars 8006 pad on my 19.2V
craftsman RO polisher and just held each disc against the pad and turned it on.Better wear
some good gloves to hold onto each disc because they will try to fly out of your hand.When
done they looked like brand new.
Jim

Not sure which I used.

I tried blue and then green and didn't like either. Plus, they both made my orange pins really tough to see at night. So they are just white right now.

Plan to switch all the illumination to red or orange LED's, I think. eBay has a bunch of vendors with the "invertered" 194 bulbs that shoot the light sideways instead of straight ahead that work wicked pissah for instrument panels.

Ok....guess what I did last night?      That was more work than I thought.   Had to cut away some of the upper dash to get it all to line up.
 
Lets start on a positive note.   It looks fantastic and after messing with it a bunch it all lines up well.  Took the pics below with my cell phone camera when I got into work this morning, so sorry if they are a little blurry.
 




Before:


After:

 
Now for the not so good...and I am somewhat bummed as I've wanted to do this mod since I bought the car.  
 
Here's the deal.   The oil gauge is not reading correctly.   When fully cold, it only goes up halfway on the gauge, and when warm, it drops to nearly the red area at a stop in gear, and only goes up a bit when driving.    I did swap out the sending unit with the one that came with the cluster.   I'm hoping there is another sending unit option I can go pick up to correct this.  
Pic is of the car in gear with a warm engine:

 
Then there is the temp gauge, which seems to read too high.   On the old Roady cluster, which was just a Cold/Hot gauge, my needle never went over half way.    With this cluster, it reads well over half way when warmed up.   It never goes to the red, but sure reads higher than it ever did on the stock cluster...and it was only 45-degrees this morning.
 
This was taken in gear, at idle, after driving 5-miles to work this morning:

 
Lastly, I think the tach may be off.   I'm worndering if, being a '96 model with OBDII, if the signal is wrong.    At cold start it goes to 1000rpm and then reads 800rpm in gear.    In normal driving it shifts just under 2K rpm and I got on it once and it never went above 2800 rpm before shifting.   At 70mph it's reading 1800rpm.   I've not done the trick with checking the gauge against the digital readout using the climate control screen.    Honestly after all the expense of this, and all the work it took to install, I was pretty down in the dumps last night.
 
On a positive note, the PRNDL looks and works perfect.   All the gauge lights work, signals, high beam, seat belt, security, all work just as they should.   I had put blue bulbs in at first but didn't like the look so went back to white before buttoning it all up.  
 
The speedo reads perfect, I ran it against my Garmin.   Fuel gauge seems to be fine, and both the regular and trip odometers work fine.   My car has 18 miles on it as I type this now.
 
So that's it.    If anyone has ideas on why the gauges read what they do, I'd love to hear them.    I for sure want to/have to fix the oil gauge....reading just above red is already driving me nuts.
 
I suppose the temp gauge could be correct....maybe it's the difference of going from just a hot/cold gauge to one that is based on an actual number.    It never gets up to the red...it just seems high.
 
As for the tach....I have no idea, but it sure seems like it should be in the 2000's before shifting, especially when pulling into traffic.   It sure sounds like the engine is going faster than what it's reading.
 
Arrghh...   I'm know I'm crazy, but I was really looking forward to having this, and now that I do, it does not seem to work right....
 
-Mike

Oil pressure: Do Roadies have the resistor behind the glove box? If so did you remove it? Did you get the 9C1 o-80 psi sender?
Interesting reading: http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=2119618#

http://www.1finecaprice.com/z28clusterinstal.htm

rh96ss wrote:

Oil pressure: Do Roadies have the resistor behind the glove box? If so did you remove it? Did you get the 9C1 o-80 psi sender?
Interesting reading: http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=2119618#

http://www.1finecaprice.com/z28clusterinstal.htm

Roadies do not have the resistor, at least they are not supposed to. A new sending unit came with the cluster. It was longer than the one I took off. I saved the box, it's at home. Will look the number up and see what it was meant for.

-Mike

Before you start worrying yourself to death,do the climate control test first.Not an authority but
unless you really stomp it,my L03 always shifts under 3 grand.Looks fantastic by the way Mike.
And now you have a tach.
Jim

Thanks Jim, I really love the way it looks as well.

Was reading Bill Crovo's install, and he used a 60psi oil sending unit from a truck. What came with mine was an 80psi unit for a 9C1 Caprice. I wonder if I swap in a 60, if that will bring the gauge up somewhat. I KNOW this car has good oil pressure.

For the tach, will compare it to the climate control readout after work.

As for the temp gauge, I'm hoping that is just the difference in going from a "Hot-Cold" gauge on the Roady cluster to an actual degree-type gauge on the Z28 cluster. The temp on the Z-cluster stays between have and the 3/5 hot line. It never goes above the 3/4 hot line. On the Roady cluster it never even even went over the halfway mark.

I went and put gas in the car at lunch, and the fuel gauges works fine. Another test down.

-Mike

I just did a ton of reading on the oil pressure issue. Some say that 6-8psi on an LT1 and warm idle is fine. Others say swap in a 60psi unit from a C/K truck. Also read that the aftermarket ones are junk and to go get a Delco 80psi unit.

A couple more updates, the tach is fine, I just drive like a grandpa. I jumped the climate control and it matches fine, so that was on me.

I'm thinking the temp gauge is fine too. It just reads higher than the Roady. So now I'm back to the oil sending unit....what to do.......?

-Mike

Looks awesome!

And yeah, these cars run really hot stock. No biggie. Don't worry about it.

I thought I used an oil sender out of a camaro?

toomanytoyz wrote:

Looks awesome!

And yeah, these cars run really hot stock. No biggie. Don't worry about it.

I thought I used an oil sender out of a camaro?

Bill I was hoping you'd jump in. What temp and oil pressures are you seeing on your cluster?

I LOVE the way this cluster looks. Just want to make sure it's right so I can stop worrying over it.

I am not sure which oil sending unit I have. It is the longer one I got used in a batch of parts I bought. It fits into the stock elbow, so I do not believe it is the truck unit. Mine reads 70 psi when cold and idles at 21 psi when warm. Warm at cruising speeds (2,500 rpm) it does about 40 psi. Mind you I just replaced the oil pump with a 10% higher volume (no pressure) oil pump and fresh bearings.

I have 180* thermostat in mine and it runs exactly in the middle. My tach is within 100 RPM's and the speedo is off by about 2 mph.

I picked a set of needles today at Harry's. Mine are very yellow and I do not like them. These new to me needles are off an older Camaro and are nice and bright orange. I am temped to paint them white after seeing yours!!

I've had my needles off a couple times, so I can't really verify their accuracy.

But the temp runs right about 180-195 or so hot. Oil pressure is about 60 cold, 30 or so at cruise, and maybe 20ish at idle.

put the needle were you want it,. the gauges are just eye candy ,.if you want accuracy add mechanical gauges,.

Nick

phantom 309 wrote:

put the needle were you want it,. the gauges are just eye candy ,.if you want accuracy add mechanical gauges,.

Nick

Nick has a good point. All the factory gauge gives you is a relative number. Change is what you need to watch for.

So here's what I've found.   Last night I drove about 40 miles after work.   Sitting at a long light the oil pressure gets so low the Check Gauges light comes on.  My car runs fantastic and I've always changed the oil on time, so I'm thinking it's got to be a bad sending unit.    Going down the road, it sits around 30psi.

I checked the tach and coolant temp against the climate control readouts.   The tach is basically spot-on.   I guess I'm just used to watching the tach dance in Misty's V6 Grand Prix.

The temp gauge is off.    The car runs at about 180 normally, but looking at the gauge it's showing higher, see pics below.






Do the gauge needles just pull off?    I've never messed with gauges.   I'm sure I can re-clock the temp gauge if I can get the needle off.

As for the oil gauge, just moving the needle, it's still going to trip the Check Gauges light I'd think.    Not sure what to do there.    I guess I'll change the sending unit, then if that makes no difference, will change the oil in the car...ha!   I really do not believe there is anything wrong with my engine.  

I'm still also considering putting the 60psi sender on.    I'd actually seen that mentioned on the 1FineCaprice website, and some folks on the F-body site have done this as well.   It's supposed to make the gauge read higher....which would make me happy!

I will say I love the look of the gauges.   GM should have done these exactly like this from the factory.   It looks fantastic.

-Mike

And yes I'll be pulling the Q-tips out tonight to dust the buttons on my dash. The camera flash made that REALLY show up.

-Mike

You are correct sir. I talked to Gary about mine and he suggested I remove the needle and replace it where I want for the Temp and Tach. I am going to replace my needles so I will bring the car to temp and while it idles I replace the needles. This was I can replace them exactly where they should be. Best way I can think to do it.

Boy your gauge face is nice!! Mine has some fade to it. Gary also seem to cut your cruise hole nicer. Mine looks like Bill's.

Mike, if you change your plastic lens I would like to get it from you. Yours is much nicer than mine.

Tim

BigBlackBeaSSt wrote:

You are correct sir. I talked to Gary about mine and he suggested I remove the needle and replace it where I want for the Temp and Tach. I am going to replace my needles so I will bring the car to temp and while it idles I replace the needles. This was I can replace them exactly where they should be. Best way I can think to do it.

So just carefully pull the needles off, and they will push right back on without glue or anything? I do NOT want to break anything.

I like the idea about bringing the car up to operating temp and doing this while it's running. Will do that.

-Mike

BigBlackBeaSSt wrote:

Boy your gauge face is nice!! Mine has some fade to it. Gary also seem to cut your cruise hole nicer. Mine looks like Bill's.

Mike, if you change your plastic lens I would like to get it from you. Yours is much nicer than mine.

Tim

If my gauge face had been faded I would have sent it back. Dang things cost too much to be wrong.

I do not have the cruise light on mine. It's still the ASR light, which is not hooked up. Between $50 for the PRNDL or for the light, I chose the PRNDL. I can tell when the cruise is on. My Olds Cruiser did not have a light, and neither does the Cutlass. Can live without that.

As for the lens, I spent about 30-mins polishing it the other night. It looks a ton better than it did, but still has some scratches in it.

Thanks for all the tips and ideas on getting this set up right. I may just re-clock the oil gauge needle and remove the check gauges bulb. Problem solved!

-Mike

Mike, I'd seriously consider temporarily installing a mechanical oil pressure gauge to establish the baseline readings to target. You're shooting in the dark.

Olds Weighty Eight wrote:

Mike, I'd seriously consider temporarily installing a mechanical oil pressure gauge to establish the baseline readings to target. You're shooting in the dark.

I may do that. I did a TON of reading last night on LT1's. GM actually says 6-8psi at hot idle is normal....that sounds wacky to me.

Most people that have hooked up a mechanical gauge on these say 12-15psi is the average on warm idle is normal on a higher-mile LT1. At speed it should be around 40-60psi.

Mike,if your needles are sticking just take a couple of plastic spoons and lever them off.Much
safer than a screwdriver or just yanking them off.
Jim

Gary Mier just e-mailed me back. He was really nice, said I might try to swap the 80psi unit for a 60psi or I might have a bad aftermarket unit.

I sent him the pics of the temp gauge vrs the readout on the climate control, and his answer was the gauge gets it's signal from a different location than the climate control.

He did say the needles can be pried off but that it's very easy to scratch the gauge faceplace when doing this. He said he did not reccomend it.

Such fun.

-Mike

Ahahahahaha! Fixed...in the work parking lot! Replaced the BW sending unit with a $45 Delco oil sending unit for a 96 Z28.

Warm engine, in gear, rolling across the parking lot at work.



Ahahahaha, sweet!

-Mike

Just took it for a run around the block. Gauges all look good now. Sorry for the glare and my cell phone camera. Ha!

Loving the mod...finally!

Wooo Hooo!

Here's a couple of evening pics with the headlights on. You can tell the cluster (with the exception of the PRNDL) lights up white, while the rest of the dash is green. I've leaving it as-is for now....I'm used to it now

I love this mod. It's really a big improvement.




Oh and on the Impala site a member posted this pic with the wood face like Crovo has. Sharp too!


-Mike

I like the black better Mike......

+1 on the black face Mike.OK now tell us how fast have you got it up to?
Jim

Flasheroo wrote:

+1 on the black face Mike.OK now tell us how fast have you got it up to?
Jim

Set the cruise at 80 to and from Houston this weekend. 80 is not as impressive when you have a 150mph speedometer.

stock ecm is 107 limited,.

Nick

phantom 309 wrote:

stock ecm is 107 limited,.

Nick

Yep I've never pushed it that hard....yet.