Did I just turn my wonderful wagon into a parts heap?

Well, I never wanted to write this post, but...

I lost control of the '94 RMW on a wet road after hitting the gas (not flooring it), wasn't able to recover in time, ground against a median, back end spun around and double tapped a Honda CRV. I no one was hurt, I was just a bit shaken up...I have liability only insurance (unemployed college student), so it's up to me to fix it. I was able to drive it home.

Here's the known damage:

Bumper killed
Hood dented and bent on its mounts
drivers side fender shoved up, blocking the drivers side door from opening. I forced it open immediately after the crash, but I've been climbing in and out of it via the passenger door
Front lower trim on drivers side gone, I have the piece that goes on the fender
Headlight mounting destroyed, headlamp popped, replaced that today.
Side lights destroyed
Back 3/4 panel dented in, was rubbing real bad against the tire, but a friend and I pulled it out a bit.
Trim destroyed on 3/4 panel
Rear passenger door slightly dented

Pictures:






It's still straight, drives okay, so I don't think I killed anything mechanical. It has developed a weird stalling issue that I will address in another thread.

So....parts queen or restoration candidate? Only got 86k miles on it.

Relax young man its not totalled.Just a little bent but all those parts are easily found since its
a white woody.Just start a list of whats dented and start saving your money.Might be hard to
fix a few of those dents but you wanted to learn body repair anyway?Dont let someone tell
you its totalled as its too nice to let go to the junkyard.Now what did we learn today about wet
roads and powerful cars?
Jim

being a college student myself, i know how you feel money wise. if you have the ability to fix it yourself i would go for it. If not a body shop will likely cost you major $$ to get it back in shape. if this were me, i would do my best to address the frontal damage. and wait until i had the time and money to accomplish the passenger side damage (which doesnt look to be too bad.) my wagon actually has passenger side damage in the same area as yours, i'd say mine is even worse; PO's wife had an "incident."

David the first thing to do is make it perfectly legal and safe to drive.Assume its your only car so
safe transportation first.You get it legal and then start accumalating parts needed to make it
cherry again.
Jim

It's legal now. Replaced the blown headlight today, there's a turn signal in the fog light (which works), so I'm good there.

Still gotta pull that dent out a bit more because it still rubs occasionally.


I DEFINITELY learned something about big powerful RWD cars on wet roads lol. And yes, it is my only mode of transportation unless I borrow my mother's car.

I have no real means of fixing it myself, I have friends that know how to replace body panels and can pull things out, but I can't do much myself unfortunately.

Plan is to get the fender pushed back forward, replace the front bumper and drive it for now...put new shocks on too. Just gotta sell some stuff

Welcome to my world. Time to learn.


Glad you were okay.

David I dont know if this is your first accident but noone was hurt so relax.Hope you didnt get a
ticket.Now start selling stuff LEGAL STUFF ONLY and start your list.You also need to check out
where your headlights are aimed cause that will get you in trouble quick with the law and idiots.
Is your steering wheel still in the same position?If not you may have knocked the front end out
of alignment too.Chillout and have a COKE!
Jim

Good to hear you're not going to give up on it. That's a beautiful wagon, even wounded. Jump in there with your friends and spin some wrenches. It'll be great experience. Best of luck!

I wouldn't give up on this so quick!

First accident. Cop was a deal d*ick and gave me a ticket because I couldn't find the insurance card for this car, but I had the insurance card for my mother's car, which is on the same policy, and I was covered anyway. After the cop drove off I found it had become separated after I handed it to the lady I hit (who was very nice once she realized I made the decision not to run her off the road and down a 30' embankment into trees and hit a median instead.).

I'll go to court, tell my story, show my insurance policy and card and be done with it.

Headlights are aimed decently...the one I smashed in I got to back to semi normal...gotta push it back a bit left with tape tho. Wheel was always a bit off, and it's stayed that way. Doesn't seem to pull one way or the other, but I need to do more highway driving to really tell.

Nomore wet road play,do it in an empty parking lot like I still do.Best way to learn RWD car control
is in a snow covered parking lot.Thats probably illegal but we had cops doing it with us after
store hours so we were not worried.For tools try to borrow but ALWAYS return them CLEAN.I
will loan you my tools but if I have to come and get them or you return them dirty,forget it.
Harbor Freight is your friend for decent cheap tools.Might want to invest in a decent 3/8s and
maybe a 1/2 inch set of sockets.Number one rule and its not debateable"Never get underneath
a car without jackstands in place".This is the golden rule and if you break it you could DIE.Yes
I have seen others do it but I have seen jacks collapse and cars just fall off of the jack.If its
a life or death situation yes but only then.Thats it for tonites class but "Stingroo" is a pretty
sharp young man who will help you get started.
Jim
PS A tire on a rim is not a jackstand.

Thank you!

I have a fairly random assortment of tools, mostly craftsman, but I have no idea what I have (all leftovers from my father and pieces have been lost during many years). Once I can locate the sockets I'll see which ones I still have.

I have a friend who has real jack stands, and my father has impressed upon me the importance of using jack stands, I wouldn't get under a car without them anyway.

Thats good to hear about your dads teaching you about jackstands and their importance.Going to need metric tools for this job although on the sizes larger than 3/4 inch you can swap between
american and metric pretty easily.Go ahead and buy a can of WD 40 in case of any rusty nuts
and or bolts.Get a box of sandwich bags and a marker to keep all your nuts and bolts together
and the marker to label the bag.Some of these instructions may sound silly but as others here
will tell you this will save you time and frustration.One more helpful hint,use your phone and snap
a picture before you start taking things apart so you have a record of how things are suppose
to look when finished.
Jim

That's not even wounded.

As you have pretty much figured out, using ONLY the members on this board, we have the ability to build these wagons from the ground up ten times over just with the spare parts that we have horded over the years.


And we share those parts and the knowledge to install them freely.

The bumper cover, wood trim on the fender, and the stainless trim are Buick only, but the panels and lights are the same between the caprice, Impala SS, and Buick wagon. Roadmaster sedan is the only oddball.

Junkyard parts are cheap and reliable, if not the same color.

couple of things going for you, no fluids leaking ,and the car being a white woody it,s easy to find parts,.the dent on the quarter...,pull the back seat and the interior, and a paintless dent removal guy will be able to make that look so much better,. trim is easy to find,.
working on cars is quite simple,. you determine the size of the nut or bolt, you then use the corresponding socket or wrench,. and undo whats necessary, 1 nut and bolt at a time,.
does the hood open and close ok? you need to see if the rad cradle is bent,. if it needs to be tweaked back into place you,re better off to strip the fender off, hood off, and take it to a body shop and get them to align the cradle so you can bolt the fender/ hood back on,.the bumper doesn't look too bad really,.it'll need the rebar in behind the cover but they're cheap,.
not too bad of a hit,. shame you forced the drivers door open,. but again once the fender is off a paintles dent removal guy or a decent body guy should be able to tweak the front edge straighter so you can open it properly after the next fender is on,.
nothing is a write off till the owner says so,.just about anything can be rebuilt
lots of encouragement and help available here, take pics of what you don't understand and folks here will help,.
I,ve gone by many body shops over the years and asked for help most shops will give you free advice because most car guys are always willing to help a newbie help himself,.
good luck

Nick

Well your Dad is a smart guy. As mentioned, never F around with safety.

From what you have said, it's most likely all cosmetic damage. For tools,
metric sockets for sure. Our cars while American made, have metric fasteners.
10, 13, 14 MM will get you about 75% of the nuts and bolts on our cars. The fenders might have 15 MM on 'em don't recall off the top of my head.

If you want to pull the drivers fender, you DO NOT have to pull the door off. It might look like it, but I've pulled several off without. I have some on the side of my house off, so I can take you a few pics to show the attachment points. They use shims that will fall on the ground if you are not careful. It's not rocket science, but key is watching how you take things off and put them back in reverse order

I would suggest getting the car up on jackstands and making an assesment of the steering, etc. just to be sure.

Sears offers free alignment checks (or at least they used to) so you might be able to take it in and get it checked for free, but if they are slimy they might tell you it's all jacked up even if it's ok.....

It's not bad, I've fixed worse on my old girlfriends car. If it's rubbing in the back wheel, you could try the suction cup pull, or it that doesn't work, take the wheel off and bang it out from the inside. I would suggest something to spread out the impact so you don't wind up with a bunch of hammer dents. google bodywork techniques and watch some vids to get ideas.

I must type slow, two posts in the time it took to type my reply.......


meh, it'll buff out!! (someone had to say it)

I'm pretty sure I have an entire headlight assembly with the bracket that I could send you. PM me your address. If I find one tomorrow, I'll ship it out.

Live and learn. We've all done it. I tossed my 86 IROC into the woods and a stone wall playing in the rain when I was younger. It happens. At least no one was hurt and it looks like an easy fix.

Yeah hell, after having my car for 2 months I spun it around twice sliding in a turn - lol. I got lucky though, didn't hit anything. Had 4 lanes to mess with.


Learned my lesson... don't mess with these in the rain unless you've got practice.

Ah the joys of RWD cars on wet roads.If you learn to drive fast on a wet road you can pretty much handle anything.You learn real quick if you have a fast reaction time or a sloooooow
reaction time.Best way to learn is with old slick tires and a large parking lot.David ,hopefully
this will be a positive expierience for you and just ask one of us if you need any help or a little
pushing in the right direction.
Jim

real men drive opposite lock,.wet or dry

nick

Krzdimond wrote:

. Roadmaster sedan is the only oddball.

well.....not the ONLY oddball!

toomanytoyz wrote:

I'm pretty sure I have an entire headlight assembly with the bracket that I could send you. PM me your address. If I find one tomorrow, I'll ship it out.

i may have a corner light out in the garage.

vinyldavid wrote:

I have a fairly random assortment of tools, mostly craftsman

And if any of those are messed up, bring them back to Sears and get free replacements (and soon, since 100+ stores are about to close).

Get an FSM before you try to do anything.

I took my car to a Votech school, and they did a really nice job on the body work. The labor is free, and all you pay for is parts, shop supplies and paint. I saw the work on bare metal before they put any finish on it, and was supprized at the quality of the work.

If you are going to replace the rear door, one hint...the rear doors are 94-96 specific. They have different window regulators than the 91-93 doors.

The paintless dent removal guys can only do so much. You did not supply a passenger's side pic, so we do not know how bad it is. They usually charge about $100 per panel.

You need a 7mm, 10mm, 13mm, and 15mm socket to remove all of the front end parts. You will need a backup 15mm for the core support bolts, and if the speednuts break you need a pair of vice grips or channel lock pliers.

The hardest part will be the passenger rear quarter panel. Everyting else is bolt on.

Junk yard parts list: front fender (30), hood (50), bumper cover (35), bumper support (35), bumper shock (6), trim (6 each), rear door (60), front door (60), headlight assembly (30), marker light (10), core support if needed (50), misc small parts (50). You may be able to get a complete front clip for less than the individual parts (you can sell the extra good parts to recoup some of your cost).

You might consider doing a "de-wood", because the cost of the woodgrain vinyl is more than the paint, and is nearly impossible to get.

I bought a lot of parts for others, and have financed the repair/upgrade of my cars with the sale of the parts to other forum members. I thank all of them for the help they have given me.

Thanks guys! I really do appreciate all the help, and I would love to get this thing back to beautiful shape.

At this point, I'm way more worried about the engine issue....see thread in transmission (posted before I knew what it reallly was), which might just turn this thing into a junker.

David if for whatever reason you decide that you cant do the repairs or afford them and decide to get rid of this wagon.
Could you please give one of your fellow members the opportunity to buy it before you offer to the public.While you may
be a little intimidated right now dont worry about the little things.Any and all of us here would love to have your wagon
and this way it wont be crushed or left to sit in a junkyard.
I dont want you to think that we are trying to take advantage of a bad situation but we love these wagons.The last thing we want to see is another one get crushed or parted out.I have a set of cornering lenses that you are more than
welcome to if Ian cant find his.
Jim

I read your other thread, it should be something that is reasonably priced and repairable.

I got my car before I knew about the forum, and had to figure everything out by myself. You have a lot of help here, and you are also having a learning experience. The curve can be a little steep at times. It will make you a better car owner, and eventually save you a lot of money, because the unscrupulous mechanic will not be able to cheat you.

Get an FSM as I stated before. It will help you fix your car. They are available on ebay for a few dollars.

check this in car parts, 1994 roadmaster: 94 Chevy Caprice Buick Roadmaster Service Manual Set + ...

All 3 volumes $40.97 delivered

phantom 309 wrote:

real men drive opposite lock,.wet or dry

nick

that's what I have my Austin Healey for

Just driving that Healey into a garage takes a lot of opposite lock.Just kidding John,I loved driving
my Sunbeam Alpine as fast as it would go,which really wasnt all that fast.Some great memories
as that was my first licensed car.Can you say FREEDOM?
Jim

David just in case,FSM means factory service manual and I agree with Fred.These manuals should
be your first purchase.
Jim

Sprocket wrote:

phantom 309 wrote:

real men drive opposite lock,.wet or dry

nick

that's what I have my Austin Healey for

:CORRECTION:

Real men drive their wagons opposite lock,..wet or dry.

Nick

This forum is wonderful!

Flasheroo wrote:

David if for whatever reason you decide that you cant do the repairs or afford them and decide to get rid of this wagon.
Could you please give one of your fellow members the opportunity to buy it before you offer to the public.While you may
be a little intimidated right now dont worry about the little things.Any and all of us here would love to have your wagon
and this way it wont be crushed or left to sit in a junkyard.
I dont want you to think that we are trying to take advantage of a bad situation but we love these wagons.The last thing we want to see is another one get crushed or parted out.I have a set of cornering lenses that you are more than
welcome to if Ian cant find his.
Jim

You betcha!

I completely understand, and I like these wagons too, and if I end up getting rid of this one I won't rest until I can get another!

you learn real quick in a rwd car if you have good reflexes or not. once I turned onto an onramp in my 86 fwb (this was about 4 months after I bought it) and accelerated lightly (road was damp, tires were older than me). the back end kicked right, and I found myself pointed at a construction sign. I swerved to avoid hitting a sign, almost creamed the right side on the guard rail (missed it by an inch or 2), then almost nailed a tree while correcting. got it straightened out and the back end kicked out again. I aimed for the grass next to the road and let the ground help stop the car. threw it in park and sat there till my heart stopped pounding.

if you need parts, go to speedway salvage in illinois. they have a handful of caprices, 2 OCCs, and a roadmaster wagon, so you should be able to get the parts you need.
and if you decide to sell the wagon (please don't), lmk. my dad's been wanting one for years.

See what I mean David?Got all worked up over a little damage but this is understandable what
with your age and all.Looks like things are going to work out just fine.
Jim

david, just wanted to let you know there is a gold/ wood caprice wagon at riverside salvage with a mostly complete front end. bumper, fender, hood, etc. their prices are quite reasonable as well.

Man am just seeing this. What a bummer. I''ve seen a lot worse get fixed. The front is actually not a huge deal. I'm sure you have a Wrench-A-Part or Pick-N-Pull type salvage yard in the St. Louis area. All the front end parts can be found at those cheaply, and many Caprice parts, including the hood, fender, headlights, signals and such, will interchange. The worst, to me, is the damaged 1/4 panel. Parts that don't unbolt have to go to the body shop...

Still I think the car is totally worth fixing.

Some leads:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/pts/2726453407.html
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/pts/2691350219.html
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/pts/2725901743.html
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/ctd/2774411674.html

I looked at the caprice wagon at riverside- the front bumper is no good, and another car got pushed into the side in the yard. still, speedway salvage in illinois has 2 OCCs with good fenders and a bunch of 90's caprices to choose from.
it would also be worth checking out taylor's in hillsdale. I've heard good things about them from several people.
(taylor's, speedway, and riverside are all pull it yourself yards.)

dont waste your time at picknpull on hall street. its not very good (only a couple rwd cars)

IT LIVES. Thanks to you guys the engine is now purring smoother than it ever has.

I'ma start PM'ing people who've mentioned things, get the suspension taken care of, and start lookin at salvage yards.

Congrats!
Great to hear that you're making progress.

Damn, so much for buying it off'n you for cheap

Glad to hear it lives!

The rest can be fixed at your earliest convenience when you acquire all of the needed parts.

Congrats on the success!

As an aside - and a recommendation - every year, the first time it gets slippery enough to lose traction, I pull into a parking lot and do a bunch of donuts and figure 8's until I'm throwing that ass around like it's my job.

Even the same car will handle a little differently from winter to winter as the tires become more worn, etc. Either way, get comfortable at learning the what/when/how's of how your car reacts at the point where you go from "opposite lock" to "lock", controlled fishtailing, etc.

One time leaving bump class in my 1996 SS, I launched out of the school driveway, and had my foot WAY in it before I was pointed straight and the rear end started coming around. I stayed on it and went opposite lock, and even that didn't save it. Had I let off or stayed opposite lock, I'd have nosed it right into a ditch. I whipped the steering wheel the other way, the rear came around and I saved the car by essentially doing a 180 with my passenger front tire as the "zero turn radius" pivot point. Since I wasn't very far out of the school's driveway, I turned back into the parking lot, re-exited, and made sure it was pointed staight when I re-launched.

Lucky I saved it too, because EVERY other dude in my class was watching since my exhaust note had grabbed their attention and EVERY one of them gave me a high 5 the next day for saving it.

I'm not saying I'm a good driver. More like a well practiced moron - but at the end of the day, that practice has saved my butt a BUNCH of times throughout the years, which is why I encourage anyone who's either new to driving or new to driving RWD cars to get used to how to drive your car when it's not going where you think you're pointing it. Doing donuts and figure 8's isn't about doing donuts or figure 8's. It's about learning how to stop doing one - or at least how to control your car if you find yourself in the middle of one that you hadn't planned.

Sorry for the old guy story. I just don't want ya to smack your ride a second time if you can help it.

I have been able to save myself from two 'certain' crashes in my life on the freeway. Both of them came about from me driving too fast (of course) on cold/slippery/slushy/slick pavement, because of course I had to be the fastest guy on the road (and display my superior driving skllz) and both times the vehicle had posi, which is 10X as skittery on wet pavement than the old 'one wheel peel'. I remember both of them like they were yesterday, because I love my rides, and I just KNEW they were going end up in the junkyard. That has a way of branding the incidents in your psyche. The first time was in '73 in my beloved AMX and the second was in '05 in my F150. (see how well I learn?) I can't remember how many times each car swung back and forth from left to right, while skidding down the road, but it was at least a half-dozen times. The trick is to NOT panic and keep fighting. I wildly kept swinging the steering wheel back and forth from lock to lock, trying to keep the fronts aiming forward into the skid, and then trying to 'anticipate' the right position to aim them as the car came swinging back the other way. After several back & forths, I got lucky and the fronts started gripping the road; then the rears would come back into line. Both times, I remember looking at the rearview mirror after my great, 'ass saving' accomplishment and being amazed at how far back the 'good' drivers had sunk safely back WELL out of my way and what they were thinking of the idiot ahead. BUT... at least I fought the good fight and WON! These little victories in life keep me going, since they so seldom occur. If i was ballsy enough to wear it, I'd have Bewber make me one of those "I Conquered Anorexia" style T-shirts that said: "I Managed To Save My Own Ass From My Own Stupidity!", but that's too many words & nobody would get it & they would just shake their heads at the doddering old fool.

One thing I can add here that REALLY helps is if you can learn to slap the car into neutral as fast as you can in these situations. This really helps let the rear wheels get a grip, since they are then 'freewheeling'. I recommend it highly.

This... is my story.

I'll add a "moron story" of my own from back in my "cool days"! lol

My buddy and I were 19 and headed back to college on a sunday night in my dads almost new 97 Dodge Ram 4x4 extended cab (360, 3.92 gears with a posi). We were on a 4 lane road in an absolute Blizzard! I was racing another guy in a truck. there was 6 inches of fluffy snow on the road and I doing 100 Mph! (ya ya, I know we were idiots). Anyway, we crossed a bridge that had a rough approach and were on a corner in the freeway at around 90. When I hit that bridge approach, it threw the suspension up so hard that the rear tires lost traction and we went wayy sideways. My buddy grabbed the "Oh Sh*t Handles" and i counter-steered it through the corner and stood on the gas to keep it from backing into the outside concrete wall. we must have slid sideways for a LONG time because of the speed, but I kept it out of the outside wall, and then let up on the throttle and the rear end stepped right back in line and gave one nasty "snap" and then we were all under control and............... then we slowed down to 60 Mph! lol To this day, my buddy still tells everyone about that, and he's not a cop and he always says how impressive it was!

I grew up riding ATV's as a kid, so i kinda had a feel for the counter-steering and sliding thing from tearing around in the mud and snow.

The front clip can be replaced, but the jammed doors and damage on the right quarter are much more ominous! I believe that body is gonna need some serious pullin before it will be to specification.
If you are insured for collision, the insurance company is gonna buy the car rather than fix it because the repairs will cost more. Just be sure to make the best case you can for the actual comparable value of your wagon, as it was before the accident!
Were it me, I'd be shopping for a replacement wagon. Insurance will generally sell the car back to you cheap in exchange for a salvage title. Then, you could swap the best stuff to the replacement wagon on your own timetable.
I'm not sure what high book is on these cars ($3500 maybe?) and usually the sellback is around $500.
In this scenario, I believe that you could probably find a suitable replacement wagon for 3 grand to put your better parts and odometer onto and get it a Maaco paintjob.