mystery part??

anyone know where this goes??[img][/img]

Nick

is that the filler patch for the axe hole in that hood?

ooooo, I know! Last time you cut out one of those, you bled all over my car.

not a clue.

Looks like somebody stole Nick's jig saw so he cut it out with a drill...

Nick, are you going to cut the other hole for the hydraulic line?

Looks like Nick didn't want to drop the frame (because we all know it's only 8 f$#*n bolts) so he just cut a hole in his floor.

Quote :

Looks like somebody stole Nick's jig saw so he cut it out with a drill...

Trust me, the drill is a big upgrade. We broke the jigsaw blade right away on my car, so Nick used a chisel!

sherlock9c1 wrote:

Nick, are you going to cut the other hole for the hydraulic line?

no need to,..line runs outside,.
I broke the jig saw blade at the end of cutting jay, it grabbed the piece and sliced me a little, but a little kleenex and some masking tape to keep the nick atf inside and we were good to go,.(quite a few years ago now,.)
i then used the chisel to remove the last 3/4" or so,. then a file and grinder to clean things up,.
this one i drilled some holes then ran a carbide cutter in the die grinder,.
This will work nice with the bench seat, thanks to gerry charleworth for the custom bent shifter,.

Nick
[img][/img]

Looks good, Nick! Brings back great memories. That day was the most fun I have ever had working on a car.

Refresh my memory - is the blue car the one with the steep gears in it?

Niice Nick! Nice shifter too!

jayoldschool wrote:

Looks good, Nick! Brings back great memories. That day was the most fun I have ever had working on a car.

Refresh my memory - is the blue car the one with the steep gears in it?

amongst other thngs,. 2 big hellwig sway bars,. eibachs,. bilsteins,. 13" front discs with 4 piston calipers,. 12" rear discs,. ss steering box, stillen bumper, roll pan,.yada yada,.oh and some 4:88's,. so much other stuff i,ve forgotten,.

Nick

That'll be sweet with the 4.88s, Nick.

Oh, and the race is on! My '94 DGGM has the pedals installed, all holes cut. Will be installing flywheel, clutch, trans, crossmember, etc. tomorrow. Then there's only the steering column, inner fender, seats.

Gee, ain't T56 conversions fun!?

Wagon Collector wrote:

Oh, and the race is on! Then there's only the steering column, inner fender, seats.

Gee, ain't T56 conversions fun!?

ok you win,. i,m still fiddling and farting around,.
still need the oem paint code for the light blue interior,. and the part number for the camaro ignition switch with the button,.

Nick

Nick, you want GM part number 26033387 for your ignition. At least that's the one that fits the '96 Imp columns.

Mine will be going back together with the stock column for now. My '96 Imp column was in a wreck, the intermediate shaft is moving in and out. Am I spelling "column" wrong?

Man, I must've not got the clutch disc spot on when I installed it. This trans was a pain to install. Right now I'm waiting for the Ibuprofen to kick in...

Somebody near Akron come get this 4L60E trans, please... it's very in the way!

Nick, I have all the SEM chip charts. I will see what one matches when I get home.

Anybody know what wires go where for my '94 conversion...

1. Speed sensor - There's a tan and a dark brown wire on the factory connector, which needs to be replaced by the T56 connector. Anybody know where the wires go? Brown towards the back or towards the front of the T56 trans.

2. Reverse Lock-out. I know there's a wire that gets borrowed from the big molti-connector from the 4L60E, but I don't remember which one.

I guess I'll go jack up the DCM car and see what I did. Hopefully the '94 and '95s are the same?

Nick, sorry to hijack - just figured it applied to T56 stuff...

Wagon Collector wrote:

Anybody know what wires go where for my '94 conversion...

1. Speed sensor - There's a tan and a dark brown wire on the factory connector, which needs to be replaced by the T56 connector. Anybody know where the wires go? Brown towards the back or towards the front of the T56 trans.

2. Reverse Lock-out. I know there's a wire that gets borrowed from the big molti-connector from the 4L60E, but I don't remember which one.

I guess I'll go jack up the DCM car and see what I did. Hopefully the '94 and '95s are the same?

Nick, sorry to hijack - just figured it applied to T56 stuff...

This is what I have saved from my changeover:

1. Speedo existing, change plug (N/A 1996 cars).

I didn't have to do this one, but I believe that to mean if you only change the connector and match the existing polarity (A to A & B to B) you will be all set.

2. Reverse lockout light green PCM D6 Use brown (U) at trans plug, Power with pink (E)

This one is not intuitive because if you look at the B-car FSM it is used as the PWM control to the TCC on automatic cars, but it is the right one.

If memory serves the pink goes to Pin A on the connector.

I do remember looking it up in the F car FSM and although at first it appeared polarity was not important, I think we decided later on that it was.

It may be that with such a large solenoid there may be a flyback diode incorporated somewhere in the circuit.

- J

JaySS wrote:

2. Reverse lockout light green PCM D6 Use brown (U) at trans plug, Power with pink (E)

This one is not intuitive because if you look at the B-car FSM it is used as the PWM control to the TCC on automatic cars, but it is the right one.

If memory serves the pink goes to Pin A on the connector.

I do remember looking it up in the F car FSM and although at first it appeared polarity was not important, I think we decided later on that it was.

It may be that with such a large solenoid there may be a flyback diode incorporated somewhere in the circuit.

- J

Thanks, Jay!

Okay, I looked at my '95 DCM conversion, and I see that I used the pink and brown connectors. As stated, the brown must in fact be the PWM control, because my '94 doesn't have this wire. Damn! It has the pink one, but the plug is blank where my '95 has the wire.

Question - I checked the voltage on the '95 reverse lock-out. When I turn on the ignition, the brown wire is at ground potential (actually 0.3 volts), and the pink is at 12 volts. I didn't put the rear of the car up to see what actually happens when the car starts moving. I figure it's one of two things: 1) if the pink wire is in fact the trigger wire, then at 5 mph or so, it'll go back to ground potential (turn off). 2) If the brown wire is the trigger wire, then it likely goes to 12 volts potential to ground at 5 mph or so (effectively shutting off the solenoid).

Anyway... so if scenario 1 above is the case, can I just ground the other side of the solenoid? If not... and the brown wire is in fact the trigger, it sounds like I need to run another wire, yes? Or, just move one over on the ECM connector and use it.

Confusing...

Wagon Collector wrote:

Thanks, Jay!

Hi Kev, nice to hear from you. No big projects planned. Just now closing in on getting the wagon to run right. I have been chasing a litany of issues ranging from wrong spark plugs, defective ignition wires, a leaking injector, and not enough timing to account for the aluminum heads and improved scavenging of the headers (reduced flame speed & lower cylinder pressure, you know.) Interestingly, installing the Tri-Y's immediately revealed a slew of problems that heretofore had remained relatively hidden.

If anything I'm beginning to think that 4.56's are used mostly because most can't or aren't willing to properly tune their respective combination. Now that it is getting dialed in, I'm finding that the 4.10's are bit too much on the highway and if the trans had just a bit more 1st gear you could drive it like a truck and just let the clutch out in first with no throttle.

I was leaning towards a set of 3.73's, but as GM's 6 speed Impala had 4.10's and running a similar head and cam combination, it seemed to be prudent to try and duplicate what their analysis program had recommended. However, I think one of these days someone is going to figure out that whatever that T56 model is with the midrange first gear ratio, a set of 3.73's and the dual mass flywheel is going to be _the_ hot ticket.

Nick's 4.88's don't count - with that combo he's going to lock down the NHRA G/Modified Production class once they bring it back.

Anyway back at the ranch...

Okay, I looked at my '95 DCM conversion, and I see that I used the pink and brown connectors. As stated, the brown must in fact be the PWM control, because my '94 doesn't have this wire. Damn! It has the pink one, but the plug is blank where my '95 has the wire.

I don't think this is unsolvable. Pin T - IIRC tan or tan/black stripe, my FSM's are packed away in preps for moving - will be unused in the conversion. Move this wire over to Pin U to avoid having to pull a new lead. If the transmission select in Tunercat is set to manual, it should assign control to Pin U and you will be set to go. The PCM's are the same for 94/95 F & B cars - 96 is where they become non-interchangeable - so the proper driver should be there.

Question - I checked the voltage on the '95 reverse lock-out. When I turn on the ignition, the brown wire is at ground potential (actually 0.3 volts), and the pink is at 12 volts. I didn't put the rear of the car up to see what actually happens when the car starts moving. I figure it's one of two things: 1) if the pink wire is in fact the trigger wire, then at 5 mph or so, it'll go back to ground potential (turn off). 2) If the brown wire is the trigger wire, then it likely goes to 12 volts potential to ground at 5 mph or so (effectively shutting off the solenoid).

Not quite. In most all cases I believe that the PCM grounds the load. Therefore pink should be constant hot and the the .3 volts you're seeing is the ground plane, which can vary quite a bit off the zero you might expect. (My digital theory is pretty rusty, but I'm sure Joel can easily explain why it is done/acts this way.) So what you were seeing was the PCM was enabling the solenoid to actuate. Once you get over 5 MPH the brown wire - Pin U - should register as an open at least with continuity to ground.

Anyway... so if scenario 1 above is the case, can I just ground the other side of the solenoid? If not... and the brown wire is in fact the trigger, it sounds like I need to run another wire, yes? Or, just move one over on the ECM connector and use it.

My above Pin T suggestion is actually how my car is wired right now - we were rushing to get it done and I didn't get to drive it until 11 PM the night before leaving. Consequently you may recall my reverse lockout was non-functional and I was getting a check engine light @ WF08. The PCM was looking for the lockout solenoid as I had wired it to what we thought was the correct pin @ T instead of U as required. Thanks go out to Gerry for helping me verify that was the issue. Once I knew what the error was, we chose to repopulate "T" to "U" rather than have to lengthen the brown wire which had already been trimmed, sealed and laced back into that section of wiring harness. So to summarize, Pink to "A", Tan to "B" and repopulating "T" to "U" at the PCM connector should do it.

Confusing...

Perhaps, but a proper conversion takes more effort than people like to admit.

Take care,

- J

JaySS wrote:

If anything I'm beginning to think that 4.56's are used mostly because most can't or aren't willing to properly tune their respective combination. Now that it is getting dialed in, I'm finding that the 4.10's are bit too much on the highway and if the trans had just a bit more 1st gear you could drive it like a truck and just let the clutch out in first with no throttle.

Interesting. I do remember being shocked by how your car, even with 2.93 gears, really didn't feel like it wanted to stall. Not even as much as my 4.10 car. As for the highway, I find the 4.10s very nice at high speeds. I drive pretty fast, usually around 80-85. Even at that speed, I sometimes would grab 5th if I needed to power by someone. Always seemed very appropriate. As you know, my engine is bone stock. I took this car to Florida in the spring and it was a blast the whole time. Don't think I stopped grinning for 2,000 miles. The mountains were especially fun!

JaySS wrote:

I was leaning towards a set of 3.73's, but as GM's 6 speed Impala had 4.10's and running a similar head and cam combination, it seemed to be prudent to try and duplicate what their analysis program had recommended. However, I think one of these days someone is going to figure out that whatever that T56 model is with the midrange first gear ratio, a set of 3.73's and the dual mass flywheel is going to be _the_ hot ticket.

Yes, the 2.97 first gear model - the M29. I am (was) passively looking for one of those to put in my DCM car with the 4.10 gears. I think it'd be a sweet combination. Right now our very own Bewbs Out has a nice M29 setup for sale. I'd buy it if I had any money left for cars at the moment...

JaySS wrote:

I don't think this is unsolvable. Pin T - IIRC tan or tan/black stripe, my FSM's are packed away in preps for moving - will be unused in the conversion. Move this wire over to Pin U to avoid having to pull a new lead. If the transmission select in Tunercat is set to manual, it should assign control to Pin U and you will be set to go. The PCM's are the same for 94/95 F & B cars - 96 is where they become non-interchangeable - so the proper driver should be there.

Dumb question - which color connector at the ECM? Pin T shows up on more than one connector, yes? Man, I need a '94 FSM. Been trying to get by with a set of '95s for too long. The subtle wiring differences are definitely there. Even the speed sensor wires are different colors.

JaySS wrote:

In most all cases I believe that the PCM grounds the load. Therefore pink should be constant hot and the the .3 volts you're seeing is the ground plane, which can vary quite a bit off the zero you might expect. (My digital theory is pretty rusty, but I'm sure Joel can easily explain why it is done/acts this way.) So what you were seeing was the PCM was enabling the solenoid to actuate. Once you get over 5 MPH the brown wire - Pin U - should register as an open at least with continuity to ground.

My above Pin T suggestion is actually how my car is wired right now - we were rushing to get it done and I didn't get to drive it until 11 PM the night before leaving. Consequently you may recall my reverse lockout was non-functional and I was getting a check engine light @ WF08. The PCM was looking for the lockout solenoid as I had wired it to what we thought was the correct pin @ T instead of U as required. Thanks go out to Gerry for helping me verify that was the issue. Once I knew what the error was, we chose to repopulate "T" to "U" rather than have to lengthen the brown wire which had already been trimmed, sealed and laced back into that section of wiring harness. So to summarize, Pink to "A", Tan to "B" and repopulating "T" to "U" at the PCM connector should do it.

Cool. I'll make sure I have the right wire by running a signal through it. Looks like I'll have reverse lockout then!

Interesting snag - now that I have the trans actually in the car with the driveshaft hooked up, it seems very hard to shift. 'course I don't have a stick for the shifter, so that may be it. Hopefully it's okay as it is in unknown condition. The good news is I have a second M28 (3.66) trans just in case...

Wagon Collector wrote:

Dumb question - which color connector at the ECM? Pin T shows up on more than one connector, yes? Man, I need a '94 FSM. Been trying to get by with a set of '95s for too long. The subtle wiring differences are definitely there. Even the speed sensor wires are different colors.

Go Here: http://www.goldsswagon.com/diagrams/wiringindex.htm

I don't see color but it is Connector D - Remove the tan/black wire from Position 11 and reinsert into Postion 6.

Wagon Collector wrote:

Interesting snag - now that I have the trans actually in the car with the driveshaft hooked up, it seems very hard to shift. 'course I don't have a stick for the shifter, so that may be it. Hopefully it's okay as it is in unknown condition. The good news is I have a second M28 (3.66) trans just in case...

I wouldn't worry too much. The lever ratio is about 6 to 1, so shifting without it will be difficult if there is any load on it at all.

- J

JaySS wrote:

Go Here: http://www.goldsswagon.com/diagrams/wiringindex.htm

I don't see color but it is Connector D - Remove the tan/black wire from Position 11 and reinsert into Postion 6.

Sweet link! Thanks again.

jayoldschool wrote:

Nick, I have all the SEM chip charts. I will see what one matches when I get home.

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/__?_from=R40&_trksid=p3841.m39.l1313&_nkw=sem+paint&_sacat=

think one of these is the right color for the interior??

When i was doing the black car i found out there are 3 burgundys that gm uses' and the car uses "ruby red' sem code 4791

i want the right code, for a perfect match,...

nick

i,m having a hard time steering the car tho,. as my hardon keeps getting caught in the steering wheel!!!!,.
all the hype about 4:88's too much,. is bullshit,. car drives so nice i,m giggling like a damn teenager,.
clutch is smooth as silk, i used a stock valeo with a solid lt4 organic disc,. no dampening at all,. car is nice to drive,.
Bench seat and shifter for the old school family wagon look,. after 2yrs under a tarp in the yard in the 1a2 frame,. i unsiezed the throttle body,. drained the oil/water mix out of the pan,. plugged in fuel and spark and it runs sweet, bit of panic pulling computers out of cars till i found one with no vats program,. wired the starter direct off the key,. we're good to go,. car is quiet,. smooth and fairly quick for 3 yr old gas in the tank,. running on the roadmaster computer,.i,ve just got a tune from gerry for the 4:88's which i'll put in when i get the three pig tails i ordered,.
HAH!! gotta love it,. 4:88's ftmfw!!! i knew i was right,... FTW,. F all the haters,.
just like frankie said (sinatra that is ) "I DID IT MY WAY!!"

Nick
can you tell i,m excited?
383 in next after we get an emissions test done. haha,. too fucking low for the rollers too,. yeah!!!!
kevin i wanna try one of the low 1st trannies too,.

Good to hear that it is running! When are the videos going to be up?

Dumb question. What is the main reason for the T56 swap? Mileage, performance, or just plain cool to do? I only ask because if it is the first two, I might be able to justify the cost when the auto goes tits up. If it's the last, I'll keep the auto.

phantom 309 wrote:

Bench seat and shifter for the old school family wagon look,.

Dude, that looks freakin' sweet! I'm setting mine up that way, too. I need to change how the stick is bent, though... on mine the seat has to be all the way back. We'll have to talk more about shifter ideas - my phone had a meltdown while we were talking yesterday. Either way, I like the old-school look of a shifter sticking out of the floor.

phantom 309 wrote:

HAH!! gotta love it,. 4:88's ftmfw!!! i knew i was right,... FTW,. F all the haters,.
just like frankie said (sinatra that is ) "I DID IT MY WAY!!"

Agreed. I stumbled around with mine this weekend, and I love the lower ratio. My combo is about like 4.56 gears... and I like it a whole lot more than the 4.10 setup. Well, as far as I can tell anyway... no third gear!

Krzdimond wrote:

Dumb question. What is the main reason for the T56 swap? Mileage, performance, or just plain cool to do? I only ask because if it is the first two, I might be able to justify the cost when the auto goes tits up. If it's the last, I'll keep the auto.

Better performance? Check. Better mileage? Check, although the payback period for mileage is very, very long. It'd be hard to justify this swap for fuel mileage alone (although I tried that with the latest conversion).

Don't discount the cool factor. It changes the whole personality of the car for the better. To me that is the biggest of the three reasons you cited for doing the T56. I've had my '95 done for 2-1/2 years and that car still makes me smile every time I drive it!.

Krzdimond wrote:

Good to hear that it is running! When are the videos going to be up?

Dumb question. What is the main reason for the T56 swap? Mileage, performance, or just plain cool to do? I only ask because if it is the first two, I might be able to justify the cost when the auto goes tits up. If it's the last, I'll keep the auto.

Its not so much a dumb question,.. but if you gotta ask it,. you wouldn't understand the answer,..
I,m even happier this evening,. gerry sent me a tune,. and the car is SOO nice to drive,. very much docile like an old pickup truck,.yet whack the loud pedal and the old lt1 just up and F's off!! real fun for a stock motor,. really sweet driveability,.
Nick

Nick, I'm super happy for you. You deserve to have some fun with a car for a change!

phantom 309 wrote:

...gotta love it,. 4:88's ftmfw!!!

More fun with spreadsheets... I plugged your 4.88 gears into my spreadsheet. First gear looks plenty driveable to me... actually not too far off from 4.56s but with a little extra grunt:

sweet I gotta get me one of these, lol. I'm thinking they are picked out REALLY quick at the local yards round here as they are never to be found in even the newest arrivals.

There was ONE '95 Z28 six-speed that went through the local U-pull it locally, two summers ago. It was a summer-only car that got whacked in the left front hard enough to total it. I talked to the yard owner and he said the entire drivetrain was literally gone within an hour of it being put in the yard.

Yes, if you want a T56, it's like Fred posted on the ISSF- you better have your tools ready, and pay the cash.

Now, let ME ask a stupid question: Why not just buy any old T56 and PUT a 2.97 or 3.36 first gear in it?

sherlock9c1 wrote:

Why not just buy any old T56 and PUT a 2.97 or 3.36 first gear in it?

I don't think the lower ratio gear sets are available. I spoke with the folks at RPM Transmission in Indiana... they do a lot of T56 stuff. They felt that it would be easier to convert an LS1 trans to run in an LT1 car... those have the 2.97/.62 ratios. I don't remember what was involved, but it was expensive.

There is an M29 listed on Car-Part.com with a "busted case" in Hamilton, OH. Perhaps the gearset is okay on that one, I dunno. With the case cracked, I'd assume the internals could certainly be damaged.

Best to play the waiting game and keep asking Ebay sellers if they have the tag numbers when you see one without them listed. You want a -006 at the end of the tag numbers for an M28, and a -007 for an M29.