Wagon spring options

I've been throwing ideas around about springs since I got my wagon. SS Springs, lowering springs, cargo coils, bags, spring-overs, just exploring whats best for the wagons.

The market is not in our favor since everything is tailored to the sedans weight bias, not ours. So I've been trying to cobble together good info about cheap options for spring upgrades, mostly relating to the MOOG chart, since they are cheap and have plenty of info.

I started a thread on the ISSF some months ago to get input, so thought I'd reference y'all here too, since we are the wagon specific community.

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=269776

I don't want to do a big lowering kit (eibach, belltech, hotchkis, vogtland, etc.) because I often carry lots of people and don't want to be dragging on everything. Bags could solve that, but that's a whole 'nother thing to rely on, which I want to avoid if I can. It hurts, because our wagons can look sooo good slammed, but its just not terribly practical for my current situation. Maybe one day though....

Really what I want is stiff suspension that will put me somewhere between stock height and no more than 1 to 1.5" lowered. I want it to not drag when loaded down heavily, but not completely rattle my teeth out driving around daily. Maybe I'm asking too much ha. Gotta compromise somewhere, and if so, I'll take a little teeth rattling over too mushy a ride.

I was gonna put cc623's on the back, but am not excited about jacking the back end up a couple inches. I recently was looking on the Moog site and saw the cc625, which is spec'd for the 70's wagons. It is stiffer than the 623, and also shorter. I think this might be a winner for me if it puts me back at stock ride height, or hopefully just a touch even lower. And would be plenty stiff at 222lbs, and that's with an increasing rate. Anybody used these? Or the 623's for that matter?

For the front I'm thinking Moog 5552 or the ultra stiff 80090 or 7268. Some of this will depend on matching well with whatever rear I go with. I want the front to be a little lower than the rear. But not super raked out.

With the Hotchkis bars I have on here already and some new shocks, I think this 5000lb yacht could ride like a whole different animal.

Let me know any thoughts people have. Or experiences you've had with any of the springs listed. How much is raised/lowered, ride quality, recomendations, etc?

Sounds like you know what you are doing and you are looking for the same thing as many of us here.Our cars do look great slammed but most of us here use our wagons the way they were
meant to be.

Here is a copy of a post in a different thread. I personally like the ride height ride and drive with the Bilstien shox and cc623's with the stock front springs. The picture with the CC623's the car is completely empty, not even with a spare tire.

Quote :

While convert2diesel might be right about how the 623's work I disagree on the fact the you would see no improvement in ride height over the stock springs. I have run the cc623's in all my wagons since the late 80's, even tho I never really towed anything of much weight (heaviest would of been a empty bobcat trailer) I have loaded mine with over a ton in back a few times.

A couple things I have noticed with the 623's is that empty they ride a little over an inch higher in the back compared to stock which gives it a slight rake and are noticeably stiffer which really cuts down on the sway from the back end. When I got my latest wagon the 1st things I got for it was decent tires, Bilstien shocks and cc623 rear springs even tho I will never haul near the weight my other wagons saw I like the way they handle and raise the rear so I won't drag on steep drives.

Here are a couple pics to show the difference between the stock rear springs and then with the cc623's taken in the same parking space. You can see the difference by looking at the rim to the wheel opening.

ajharman wrote:

For the front I'm thinking Moog 5552 or the ultra stiff 80090 or 7268. Some of this will depend on matching well with whatever rear I go with. I want the front to be a little lower than the rear. But not super raked out.

If you want to use the 80098 or 7268 you will need to cut them 1/2 a coil, which will make them even stiffer.   They are higher on the wagon than the SS.  You'll need to cut down the 80090 even more. The stock rear springs aren't too far off from what you want in terms of stiffness, especially if you are using a rear swaybar.  I personally like the CC505 (stock ride height).  I have used it without a rear swaybar and with the hotchkis and hellwig "superbar".  It was great with the hotchkis, ok w/o a bar, but too much for the super bar, IMO.  I've used the CC507s as well.  They drop the rear about 1/4".  I find they are too soft to use w/o a swaybarat, but they were quite nice with the super bar.

edit: I just noticed your post on the SS forum.  I think you are overanalyzing it.  You don't really need to go the trial and error route.   A lot of it has been tried before, but the ISSF lost all its data in 09.  Using an SS spring won't lower the front of your wagon down to SS level. If you go down to a 27" tall tire, expect to have more gap than on an SS.

FWIW this car has vogtland springs in the front, CC505s in the back.  The front isn't as low as if I had installed them on an SS (they are supposed to drop the SS 1.25" in the front).


the vogtland spring (centre) next to an SS spring

The 505's with the vogtlands give a nice stance.

And those 623's look pretty good too. Did you say you were using bilsteins with those, or do you still have the airshocks?

I just ordered a set of cc625's. My hope is that it will behave like the 623, but sit a little lower. No telling though with the variable rate, I'll keep my fingers crossed ha.

jasonlachapelle wrote:

If you want to use the 80090 or 7268 you will need to cut them 1/2 a coil, which will make them even stiffer. They are higher on the wagon than the SS.

edit: I just noticed your post on the SS forum. I suspect Bill fat fingered the rate for the wagon rear springs, and that it should read 27 N/mm. I think you are overanalyzing it. You don't really need to go the trial and error route. A lot of it has been tried before, but the ISSF lost all its data in 09. Using an SS spring won't lower the front of your wagon down to SS level. If you go down to a 27" tall tire, expect to have more gap than on an SS.

You're right. I don't really want to go higher than 550-750lbs so I'll probably either be trimming down a 5552 or it looks like either the 5662 or 5664 could work too. Those last two look very similar to the 80090 and 7268, but shorter, so hopefully trimming could be avoided. I'm gonna wait and see where the cc625's put my height at before I order the front's. The results of that might change the ones I go with.

This is a bit late to the game but I called canuckmotorsports.com today regarding their 1.5" front and rear spring set. According to the person I talked to they are linear, which I assume means straight wound. Fronts are 690 and the rears are 240. the part number is 2124.42200. A human answered the phone and took the time to look up the info I was looking for!

Vern

Those actually sound like a really good option. Those rates look perfect for a wagon.

For some reason I always thought of that brand as like an Ebay type offbrand, but given that they have published spring rates and a real human person to call and talk to about it, they sound like they are worth a go. Especially if the 1.5" drop is consistent all around for a wagon and won't give a saggy rear end like sedan spring kits will.

How much are those CM springs running for?

ajharman wrote:

Those actually sound like a really good option. Those rates look perfect for a wagon.

For some reason I always thought of that brand as like an Ebay type offbrand, but given that they have published spring rates and a real human person to call and talk to about it, they sound like they are worth a go. Especially if the 1.5" drop is consistent all around for a wagon and won't give a saggy rear end like sedan spring kits will.

How much are those CM springs running for?

OK... called again, they make the springs in BC. Lifetime "no sag" warranty. They also have a 2"f 3"r drop set that has the same rate of 690f 240r. Group buys are also something that they are happy to do. Five sets total, any part numbers for a 25% discount which comes out to 140.00 per set +frt. Retail is 180.00.

Cheers, Vern

Got the CC625's in. They feel really good. Nice and stiff, but not too harsh (to me anyway).

Raised my rear wheel arch from 21" to 21 and 3/4". I'm pretty sure it will settle back down to about what it was to begin with by the time its all said and done. It also raised the rear bumper step height on the back from 19 1/2" to 21 1/2". This was all with 235/70R15 tires and 40 psi.

CC625's and stock springs were the same height when taken out. Stock springs must have fatigued pretty bad since the 625's were only 14" tall. For some reason I thought stockers were taller than that.



New shocks went a long way over the blown air shocks. Delco's, presumably original.



Everything went in real tidy.

\




Gonna order some fronts now since I know where its sitting on those rears. Still kinda split between the Moog 5664 and the 7268. The 5664 is probably a little low for the height the rear is at, and the 7268 is a little higher than I want. I might do the 7268 and then cut a half coil, which will also be bringing the rate up close to 800#, I'm pretty sure I'd be OK with that though.

These springs are one step stiffer than the 623 and I also have Hotchkis bars and I don't think the ride is harsh at all. So I'm pretty sure I'll feel similarly about the 700+ springs in the front. We do have good roads around here too though.

Ok, I've read this thread a couple times now. Between all the part numbers, travel rates, tire sizes I'm lost. I don't mean to thread jack, but I'm curious what FRONT spring I would use to drop the nose about 3/4-1" and try to keep some comfort in the ride. I am running 235/70's and have CC623's in the back with HD shocks and a rear Addco swaybar.

Should also say I have a set of Moog 5030's still in the box. Would these work for my needs?

The 5030's might work. I'm not sure exactly where they will sit offhand but at 419 pounds they are going to be softer than the stock springs which are 440 pounds. What are you looking for as far ride quality, do you want floaty and comfortable, or stiffer and more responsive?

Its largely a matter of opinion. I'm looking to accomplish the same drop in the front as you, but want it to be very stiff. Because of this I will probably be trimming either a 5552 or 80090 to get about a 1" drop in the front, but will have a spring rate somewhere between 6-800 pounds.

There is a moog chart on the ISSF, its linked in the thread I have going on there (URL in my first post). My final goal is to convert that chart into one that has the wagon heights on it too in a separate column. I will first have to find out exactly what the weight difference is for the wagon front to rear compared to the sedans.

ajharman wrote:

The 5030's might work. I'm not sure exactly where they will sit offhand but at 419 pounds they are going to be softer than the stock springs which are 440 pounds. What are you looking for as far ride quality, do you want floaty and comfortable, or stiffer and more responsive?

Its largely a matter of opinion. I'm looking to accomplish the same drop in the front as you, but want it to be very stiff. Because of this I will probably be trimming either a 5552 or 80090 to get about a 1" drop in the front, but will have a spring rate somewhere between 6-800 pounds.

There is a moog chart on the ISSF, its linked in the thread I have going on there (URL in my first post). My final goal is to convert that chart into one that has the wagon heights on it too in a separate column. I will first have to find out exactly what the weight difference is for the wagon front to rear compared to the sedans.

I'm definitely more of a soft ride type of person. A life of New England potholes will do that . But I realize the looks of a 1" drop may sacrifice some of that softness but I'm ok with that.

Cadet57 wrote:

... I realize the looks of a 1" drop may sacrifice some of that softness but I'm ok with that.

Not necessarily. If you use a tall spring with a low rate like the ones you have, you can still achieve a drop with the same amount of softness as factory, or potentially even softer if that's what you want. I like the control of the stiffer springs, but Like I said, its more a matter of what type of ride you're looking for.

Those springs could very well put you where you want, you would have to do a little number crunching to figure out exactly though. Do you know the free height of the stock springs? If those 5030's are just a little taller than the stock ones, you may be in business with that lower spring rate. If they are too much taller you may have to trim them a little to achieve the ride height you want. And if they are shorter than your stock springs, they will ride super low since they are softer. I've meant to gather a large amount of this information on stock spring heights and stuff in one place, but unfortunately haven't had the time to do that yet.

Just ordered some Moog 7268 springs for the front. $75 shipped on Amazon. 750# rate. They seem to be stated as very close to SS height in a sedan, so I'm hoping installed in a wagon it will still sit an inch or so lower than the stock wagon springs, even accounting for the weight bias.

I haven't decided if I want to try and trim them or not. I'm leaning towards not to begin with. Would like to keep them unmolested if I can and the ride height is good. Seemed like the 5664 was just gonna be a little too low.

Anybody running these in a wagon? Or the 5664 for that matter?

ajharman wrote:

The 5030's might work. I'm not sure exactly where they will sit offhand but at 419 pounds they are going to be softer than the stock springs which are 440 pounds. What are you looking for as far ride quality, do you want floaty and comfortable, or stiffer and more responsive?

Its largely a matter of opinion. I'm looking to accomplish the same drop in the front as you, but want it to be very stiff. Because of this I will probably be trimming either a 5552 or 80090 to get about a 1" drop in the front, but will have a spring rate somewhere between 6-800 pounds.

There is a moog chart on the ISSF, its linked in the thread I have going on there (URL in my first post). My final goal is to convert that chart into one that has the wagon heights on it too in a separate column. I will first have to find out exactly what the weight difference is for the wagon front to rear compared to the sedans.

On my 91 OCC the weight distribution is about 52%front and 48% rear for a total weight of 4690 lbs with 1/2 a tank of gas.

ajharman wrote:

Just ordered some Moog 7268 springs for the front. $75 shipped on Amazon. 750# rate. They seem to be stated as very close to SS height in a sedan, so I'm hoping installed in a wagon it will still sit an inch or so lower than the stock wagon springs, even accounting for the weight bias.

I haven't decided if I want to try and trim them or not. I'm leaning towards not to begin with. Would like to keep them unmolested if I can and the ride height is good. Seemed like the 5664 was just gonna be a little too low.

Anybody running these in a wagon?

I am running them hence my suggestion to cut them in this post. You can PM Navylifer on ISSF. I think he's running them as well.

Did you notice any difference in height with from stock to half coil cut 7268's?

Or similarly, how high do you think it would sit if I were to not cut the springs, based on how yours sits now?

Cadet57 wrote:

Should also say I have a set of Moog 5030's still in the box. Would these work for my needs?

ajharman wrote:

The 5030's might work. I'm not sure exactly where they will sit offhand but at 419 pounds they are going to be softer than the stock springs

No. You'll need to cut those 5030s a whole coil to get drop you want on your wagon, which will make them slightly stiffer than stock, but not outrageously so. Just cutting 1/2 a coil on them will not lower your car.

ajharman wrote:

Did you notice any difference in height with from stock to half coil cut 7268's?

Or similarly, how high do you think it would sit if I were to not cut the springs, based on how yours sits now?

If you instal the 7268 without cutting it, you can expect it will lower the front of a wagon with non-sagging springs by just under 3/4", so it will ride slightly higher than an SS would. That might be the ticket for you since you raised the back and -as I just noticed- you're running 28" tall tires. I'm running a tire just under 27" in the front, and it would look too high (IMO) if I hadn't cut it.

jasonlachapelle wrote:

If you instal the 7268 without cutting it, you can expect it will lower the front of a wagon with non-sagging springs by just under 3/4", so it will ride slightly higher than an SS would. That might be the ticket for you since you raised the back and -as I just noticed- you're running 28" tall tires. I'm running a tire just under 27" in the front, and it would look too high (IMO) if I hadn't cut it.

Awesome.

3/4" drop sounds perfect. I'll probably put them in uncut and see how I like where it sits. I imagine that will be pretty close to where I want it to be though. I'll be switching back to stock SS tire height when I can afford some new Kuhmo's for my SS rims, so I may trim them later on if the gap really bothers me too much, but I think it should look pretty good there even with the 27" tire.

Got the springs in.

As stated elsewhere on the forum the Moog 7268 spring and the 80098 are the same (not to be confused with the 80090, which is different). The 80098 seems to run cheaper than the 7268 though for whatever reason, so could save you a couple bucks.


7268 on left, stock wagon spring on right. You can see the 7268 is ~2-3" shorter.



Front suspension all taken apart.



Out with the old, in with the new. Decided to put some zq8 bumpstops and new end links in while I had it apart.


Back together.




I measured the height before, but then lost the piece of paper I wrote it on. I think it was like 29 3/8" at the top of the fender well with 235/70R15 tires. It was 28 3/4" after the install and a short test drive. So it dropped about a half inch. I'm sure it will settle another quarter to half inch over the next couple weeks too.

I also remeasured the rears. They've settled almost all the way back down to 21", meaning the CC625's sit at pretty darn close to the exact height the stock springs did, which is good information for anyone looking to use them in the future. I'll remeasure in a couple weeks and see how everything is settling.

The stance is nice. Slightly lower in front, has nice subtle rake. I'm real happy with the ride too. I would not by any means say the 750# springs are too stiff. It feels like it belongs there. I still find the ride very comfortable, we have nice roads here in central NC though and I like a good solid feeling ride. The handling is SO MUCH improved! Its incredible. I should have swapped springs a long time ago. Night and day difference as far as how the car controls its weight, especially with the Hotchkis bars.

Post a picture of the car now, Okay?? Stance, sise view. Thanks.
COL

COL wrote:

Post a picture of the car now, Okay?? Stance, sise view. Thanks.
COL

Definitely. Just wanted to give the springs a couple days to settle. I'll get some pics up of how the car is sitting within the next day or two.

Got a few more parts to get for my wagon and out comes the front and rear suspensions for
a serious upgrade!Now I just need the iniative to do the work!

Flasheroo wrote:

Got a few more parts to get for my wagon and out comes the front and rear suspensions for
a serious upgrade!Now I just need the iniative to do the work!

The labor actually wasn't too bad. I was expecting much worse (I did use my buddy's lift though, would have taken longer in my driveway for sure). The rears were easy peasy since there was no compressing springs involved, they just dropped out when you pull the axle housing down. The fronts I took my time and did it basically all day because I also did brakes and a bunch of other little odds and ends while I was in there.

Just make sure you have a good internal type spring compressor, large prybar (for prying the control arms and tie rod linkage loose after you unbolt them), some penetrating oil for the control arm bolts (I detached mine at the frame rather than at the ball joint, seemed easier to me, but whatever is comfortable), and some crows foot or bent wrenches to get the top shock nuts off (was a pain trying to do it with a normal open end through the little access hole).

You'll need to compress the stock spring several inches to get the tension off the control arm before you pull it loose. Make sure you can move the spring around in there by hand before unbolting the control arm to keep anything from flying open on you. And be really careful with the compressed spring. Thing will do damage if it comes loose on you. Thousands of pounds of stored energy at a minimum.

Nice part is that you only have to compress the 7268 a little bit to get it back in comfortably since its so much shorter. Some have said they've done it without, but I found it to be easiest to work in there after I compressed it about an inch or two.

Going back in I used a jack to place the lower control arms back into their mounting brackets while centering the spring on its perches. Just make sure you aren't using the jack to actually compress the spring, because that could cause your compressor to slip off, which would be bad.

Basically just be careful and use common sense with anything involving the compressing and/or releasing of the springs and everything should go along nice and easy. Grease all your steering linkage while you're in there too. I also found this to be a good time to throw in bumpstops and end links since mine were pretty janky. Both are really cheap parts so its definitely worth doing.

Definitely keep us posted when you do.

I just ordered the Canuck motor sport springs. Will see how they work out. Anyone else try them and can offer feedback on them?

[quote="ajharman"]

Flasheroo wrote:

Got a few more parts to get for my wagon and out comes the front and rear suspensions for
a serious upgrade!Now I just need the iniative to do the work!

The labor actually wasn't too bad. I was expecting much worse (I did use my buddy's lift though, would have taken longer in my driveway for sure). The rears were easy peasy since there was no compressing springs involved, they just dropped out when you pull the axle housing down. The fronts I took my time and did it basically all day because I also did brakes and a bunch of other little odds and ends while I was in there.

Just make sure you have a good internal type spring compressor, large prybar (for prying the control arms and tie rod linkage loose after you unbolt them), some penetrating oil for the control arm bolts (I detached mine at the frame rather than at the ball joint, seemed easier to me, but whatever is comfortable), and some crows foot or bent wrenches to get the top shock nuts off (was a pain trying to do it with a normal open end through the little access hole).

You'll need to compress the stock spring several inches to get the tension off the control arm before you pull it loose. Make sure you can move the spring around in there by hand before unbolting the control arm to keep anything from flying open on you. And be really careful with the compressed spring. Thing will do damage if it comes loose on you. Thousands of pounds of stored energy at a minimum.

Nice part is that you only have to compress the 7268 a little bit to get it back in comfortably since its so much shorter. Some have said they've done it without, but I found it to be easiest to work in there after I compressed it about an inch or two.

Going back in I used a jack to place the lower control arms back into their mounting brackets while centering the spring on its perches. Just make sure you aren't using the jack to actually compress the spring, because that could cause your compressor to slip off, which would be bad.

Basically just be careful and use common sense with anything involving the compressing and/or releasing of the springs and everything should go along nice and easy. Grease all your steering linkage while you're in there too. I also found this to be a good time to throw in bumpstops and end links since mine were pretty janky. Both are really cheap parts so its definitely worth doing.

Definitely keep us posted when you do.
[{quote}]
Thanks AJ,done this job many times but its been about 30 years or so.Have 4 rebuilt control arms ready to go in and got a new
Dewalt 20V Max 3/8 impact wrench which should speed up the disassembly and reassembly greatly!130 ft lbs of torque in a 3.5
lb package and no air hose needed!

Flasheroo wrote:

Thanks AJ,done this job many times but its been about 30 years or so.Have 4 rebuilt control arms ready to go in and got a new
Dewalt 20V Max 3/8 impact wrench which should speed up the disassembly and reassembly greatly!130 ft lbs of torque in a 3.5
lb package and no air hose needed!

Absolutely man. Certainly not questioning anyone's abilities. More of just a general overview for people who might be perusing this thread in the future.

I'll go ahead and add a +1 for the rear shock u-bolts too while were on the install topic, made the top bolts for the rear shocks a breeze. I ordered a pair from RMS but I think somebody on the forums makes them as well.

Navy Lifer over on ISSF makes them. Bill's a good guy to deal with, and very knowledgeable.

ajharman wrote:

Flasheroo wrote:

Thanks AJ,done this job many times but its been about 30 years or so.Have 4 rebuilt control arms ready to go in and got a new
Dewalt 20V Max 3/8 impact wrench which should speed up the disassembly and reassembly greatly!130 ft lbs of torque in a 3.5
lb package and no air hose needed!

Absolutely man. Certainly not questioning anyone's abilities. More of just a general overview for people who might be perusing this thread in the future.

I'll go ahead and add a +1 for the rear shock u-bolts too while were on the install topic, made the top bolts for the rear shocks a breeze. I ordered a pair from RMS but I think somebody on the forums makes them as well.

I got 2 sets of Navy Lifer about a year ago and still havent used them yet.........................But I will!
You are right about being careful with those springs though,they can put some serious hurt on someone
if there not careful!

Finally got an update with some pics for yall. Been kinda crazy over the Holidays so you'll have to excuse the low quality cell phone pics and general dirtiness. Unfortunately don't have any great side shots of the car before and after either, but here's what I have, at various stages of developement.

Note that this is with 28" tires (235/70R15). You'll have to subtract a half inch from trim height to get appropriate measurement for 27" tires (Impala 255/50R17's).

Original Trim Height:
Front (Stock, 440 lb/in): 29.40" (From FSM, unfortunately lost the actual measurement I took, but I was thinking it was 29 and 3/8ths, so that's probably it)
Rear (Stock, 211 lb/in): 21.00" (FSM says 21.9" so they had sagged almost an inch)

After Spring Installation and some settling:
Front (Moog 7268/80098, 748 lbs/in): 28.625" (Drop of 3/4")
Rear (Moog CC625, 222 lbs/in, Variable): 21.50" (Almost the exact same height)


Before:




After:



I'm slightly uncertain as to how level the surface was the second time I measured. So I'll make sure to update if these heights change. I'll measure it again on the slab at my buddies shop I did the install at next time I'm over there.

But overall, I'm super happy with the ride. It's totally transformed. The ride is nice and firm but not oppressive. YMMV depending what type of ride you prefer. I would definitely recommend this combo to any wagon guys though, to me it's a perfect setup for people not looking to drastically change ride height and wanting to increase firmness. I wanted to lower the car originally with something like the Eibach kit, but am now glad I went this route. It seems much more practical for day to day driving over various road obstacles.

Sounds like you hit on the right combination of springs for your wagon,now we need some better before and after pics AJ.

Flasheroo wrote:

Sounds like you hit on the right combination of springs for your wagon,now we need some better before and after pics AJ.

Yeah, I'll try to update with some better pics this weekend when I can get some in the daytime. The nice thing is that the height didn't change very much, the only real visual differnce is that it looks a little bit tighter on the front wheel arch if you're looking for it. Overall it appears more or less stock, with a slight rake to it.

Hi AJ,

How are the KYBs at keeping those stiffer front springs under control? Do they have enough rebound dampening? The reason I ask is that this afternoon I took a drive on 101 in the south part of Oregon where there is quite a bit of slide activity and the road ain't too flat... lots of dips! I was in a bit of a hurry to try and get to a spot to get some sunset photos and the dampening didn't seem to be up to the job of hanging onto the stock springs on the rebound end of things. Didn't come close to bottoming out at any time which leads me to believe that the compression is OK. Just going down the road not driving like an idiot they are great.

Cheers, Vern

Sofapilot wrote:

Hi AJ,

How are the KYBs at keeping those stiffer front springs under control? Do they have enough rebound dampening? The reason I ask is that this afternoon I took a drive on 101 in the south part of Oregon where there is quite a bit of slide activity and the road ain't too flat... lots of dips! I was in a bit of a hurry to try and get to a spot to get some sunset photos and the dampening didn't seem to be up to the job of hanging onto the stock springs on the rebound end of things. Didn't come close to bottoming out at any time which leads me to believe that the compression is OK. Just going down the road not driving like an idiot they are great.

Cheers, Vern

To be honest, I could stand for a little more rebound damping on the shocks. Compression is good. But like you said, if you compress really hard over a bump or pothole it does spring back up when you come over it. Its not violent or anything, but would certainly be more composed with additional rebound damping. Overall I'm pretty happy with the KYB's though. I've used them on a lot of different cars, and in my opinion, they are almost always the best value per dollar (as long as you get the high pressure monotubes, and not the GR2's).

I wanted Bilsteins like everyone else, but they just weren't in the budget this time around. Hopefully I'll be able to get some whenever I need a new set. I wonder what the difference in rebound is between the KYB and Bilsteins? Custom revalves for higher rebound would also be a good option, but again, more $$$.

I'm pretty comfortable with the KYB's for the time being, especially for just everyday driving (we have pretty smooth roads here). I would definitely be interested if anyone has info on the different rebound rates though. That would be the logical next step for fine tuning everything.

-Abe

Great White Truckster wrote:

I just ordered the Canuck motor sport springs. Will see how they work out. Anyone else try them and can offer feedback on them?

I haven't ever used them, but when someone brought it up on the thread at ISSF I contacted one of their sales reps. The spring rates were 690 front and 240 rear for the caprice/wagon kit, all linear, which sounds like a really good combo. They also supposedly have some type of no sag warranty. The impala kit spring rates were lower IIRC, so make sure you check ahead of time to make sure which one you're getting if you specifically wanted the stiffer one.

Did you get all 4 or just fronts? Definitely post up when you get them in because I was curious about those myself. Could be another good low cost option. Let us know how they ride.

Are you still happy with this setup? Based on your list of "wants" from your car's "feel" and your description of how they worked once in your car, I'm thinking that these springs might be a good choice for me. I'm not concerned with lowering my car, really. If spring lower it a tiny bit, great, but I'm more concerned with load rating and road manners.

Also, I see those CC625s are listed as front coils. Are front and rear springs essentially interchangeable?

Bull wrote:

Are you still happy with this setup? Based on your list of "wants" from your car's "feel" and your description of how they worked once in your car, I'm thinking that these springs might be a good choice for me. I'm not concerned with lowering my car, really. If spring lower it a tiny bit, great, but I'm more concerned with load rating and road manners.

Also, I see those CC625s are listed as front coils. Are front and rear springs essentially interchangeable?

I'm definitely still very happy with it. I've gotten totally used to the ride now and don't even think about it most of the time when I'm out and about. As long as you aren't slamming into potholes or flying over speedbumps you have nothing to worry about. I find the ride very tight and controlled, but also plenty comfortable.

As for the cc625's being listed as a front spring, that must be a typo on whatever site you were checking them out on. They are most certainly rear springs, with correct sized pigtails and all. Fronts and rears are not interchangeable and are very different size and shape from one another. Check my pics from earlier in the thread and you'll see comparison shots for both the front and rears of the Moog springs and the stock ones I pulled out. The rears have that beehive shape and are bigger than the fronts, which are straight wound.

Good to hear that you still like this setup. I don't want just to copy someone else, but there is a dizzying variety of spring choices and knowing someone with the same (approximately speaking) car who says "this one works great" is a big comfort.

I didn't think fronts and rears were the same. Here is one place that lists the 625 as a front spring:

Doing anything to a car gets scary expensive, quickly. Between the springs, insulators, and shocks I already am looking at a chunk of dough, especially if I use Bilsteins. Then I figure I "might as well" add a rear swaybar, and if you tighten up the rear of the car you should probably do the front, too. Ugh!

EDIT: As a newb, I am not allowed to post a link to the site that shows those springs as being fronts. But it's moog-suspension-parts dot com.

Bull wrote:

Good to hear that you still like this setup. I don't want just to copy someone else, but there is a dizzying variety of spring choices and knowing someone with the same (approximately speaking) car who says "this one works great" is a big comfort.

I didn't think fronts and rears were the same. Here is one place that lists the 625 as a front spring:

Doing anything to a car gets scary expensive, quickly. Between the springs, insulators, and shocks I already am looking at a chunk of dough, especially if I use Bilsteins. Then I figure I "might as well" add a rear swaybar, and if you tighten up the rear of the car you should probably do the front, too. Ugh!

EDIT: As a newb, I am not allowed to post a link to the site that shows those springs as being fronts. But it's moog-suspension-parts dot com.

I definitely know what you mean. I looked over threads on the forum for months and months before I bought springs. Kept going back and forth on different options. That's exactly why I posted on here though, so others could do the same if it seems like its what they are looking for. That's all I did when I did mine, I saw some stuff on here and the ISSF about the 80098 (or 7268) front springs and that a lot of people run the CC623 for the rears. I noticed the 625 was a little stiffer and shorter than the 623, but otherwise pretty similar, so figured it should work fine too and give me more of the ride I was looking for since the 623 raises rear ride height a couple inches.

I definitely feel you though on stuff building up. Just take it in steps that are manageable. Being a poor college student, I've been on a super budget with everything I've done to my car, so I can sympathize, but there are deals out there if you look. These Moog springs are much cheaper than the other popular alternatives, so that helps. As long as you can do the work yourself and don't have to pay a shop for labor, you can usually get away with most of the basic stuff on the cheaps.

Unfortunately Rockauto no longer has the CC625's on super closeout (they were $40 when I bought mine, they are now back at $70). But you can get them on amazon for $77 shipped, which is cheaper than they are from the Moog retailers. And if you check the compatibility they are spec'd for the rear on many GM wagons from the 70's (not much has changed).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/compatibility-chart/B000HPZYKY/ref=au_pf_dp_chart

Best of luck. I think you'll enjoy them if you go this route. Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions along the way, I've definitely gotten plenty of good advice from folks on here myself, so I'm more than happy to share any info I can.

I'm finally getting ready to do this. My car is up on stands while I swap exhausts and clean and paint parts of the underbody to stop rust creep.

I'm going with the 625 springs thanks to this thread and some Gabriel Ultra shocks based on one recommendation elsewhere and the relatively low price.

I was under the car the other day and say the rubber insulators above each rear spring, so I'm ordering a new pair. Are there any insulators at the bottom of each spring? I didn't think to check and now I'm away from home.

Bull wrote:

Are there any insulators at the bottom of each spring?

top and bottom

Tom

silverfox103 wrote:

Bull wrote:

Are there any insulators at the bottom of each spring?

top and bottom

Tom

Thanks Tom. Are they all the same?

Yes. There are four total rubber insulators you'll need to buy. PN is the same for top and bottom.

Mine had top and bottom also, and all appeared to be the same size and shape IIRC

Thanks guys; I appreciate it.

Thanks for the info. I will probably do the same thing eventually as the stock front springs are a bit floaty for my taste...

Front springs only have isolators at the top.

Installed the 80098 front springs and Monroe SS Shocks on all corners last week. Combined with the CC623 springs and large Crown Vic bar in the rear. Drives like a totally different car now. Interstate ramps have gone from scary to fun.

The shocks are nowhere near as jarring as what I have read/heard. Floating down the highway is indeed a thing of the past though.

As for nose drop, you have to cut these springs to achieve that. Mine is only 1/4" lower than stock. I knew better than to not cut them but the talk of nearly a one inch drop had me too hopeful.

Thank you! Someone who agrees.

The Monroe SS shocks are nice.

Old guys, man.