What can I tow?

Hi, I'm looking to buy a camper/ trailer to tow behind my RMW. It's a 96 with the Tow package. How big or heavy can I go? I think the towing capacity is 5000 lbs. so I was thinking a 24ft. trailer would be about as big as I can tow.
Thanks, Mike

It's not just weight you also have to look at aerodynamics. Your car won't even feel a 3500 lb pop up but the same weight travel trailer will feel like you're dragging an anchor.

Careful when buying the trailer. Base the weight on the max capacity not the dry weight. Might be an issue at 24 ft. Mine is called an ultra light and still grosses out at over 6k. Never been called on it but in some states and provinces, if you're over the rated capacity of the car by more than 10 percent than you can't even drive the rig off the road. You have to have it towed.

Check the RV forums for some horror stories.

Definitely invest in a load distributing hitch and don't cheap out. If you can afford it get a Hensley hitch. Worth every penny. If you don't have the 2500 bucks than the Equalizer seems to be the best of the conventional type (about 400). I have used a Equalizer for 5 years now and have no complaints but would love to get a Hensley.

Good luck on your quest and yes, these cars make great tow vehicles.

Bill

Look at Vintage Airstreams before they got too heavy. My 1958 is listed dry at 2740. It is 22'. I would say it is no more than 3100 loaded. I tow with an equal-i-zer brand hitch.

Thats a cool picture of your rig and a beautiful backdrop except for the truck with his hood open.

My Betty wrote:

Hi, I'm looking to buy a camper/ trailer to tow behind my RMW. It's a 96 with the Tow package. How big or heavy can I go? I think the towing capacity is 5000 lbs. so I was thinking a 24ft. trailer would be about as big as I can tow.
Thanks, Mike

If you read the owner's manual closely, you will find the rated towing capacity with the towing package and using a weight-distributing hitch is 7,000lbs. Obviously, adequate trailer brakes are a must too. Of course, this is for a car in very good mechanical condition.

A 24' travel trailer is no problem. I've towed a 35' park model (with tip-outs) in hilly country with no problems with my old 92 RMW. That said, ambient temperature may also play a role. Make sure the radiator fins are not mushed over or full of bugs. And the fuel. I'd consider using premium if you are nearing the limits of capacity. At the very least, ethanol free fuel if you can find it. In hilly country, tow in D instead of OD. Finally, keep the speed down -- think 55-60mph on the freeway instead of 70-75. Not only is it safer from a handling point of view, it's a lot easier on the motor and transmission.

http://www.pure-gas.org/

This is a map of the US.....

http://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

Thanks for replies. Awesome set up COL! I would love to find a vintage Air stream. There's a guy in my town that has a 1978 28' Air Stream for sale. I stopped in and asked him about it. He said it felt like feather towing it. Like Convert2deisel said, aerodynamics play a big part I'm sure. It's out of my price range at $10k though.

My Betty wrote:

Thanks for replies. Awesome set up COL! I would love to find a vintage Air stream. There's a guy in my town that has a 1978 28' Air Stream for sale. I stopped in and asked him about it. He said it felt like feather towing it. Like Convert2deisel said, aerodynamics play a big part I'm sure. It's out of my price range at $10k though.

Like our wagons, vintage trailers are going up in value. Airstreams were the Cadillac of travel trailers. I paid $5,000 for an original, complete trailer. I have put a boatload of labor into it and about $6,000. I have used it for the whole time and towed it at least 15,000 miles. All original apliances are in working order. Fridge, oand stove, lights, toilet, sinks and shower, heater, etc.

I am going throgh the painstaking process of polishing it. In the 50s and early 60s they were clad with a softer aluminum over aircraft grade aluminum that takes a great shine. It is alot of work but worth it for the value too. I feel lucky at 65 to be fit enough and motivated to do the work myself.

Good luck with your search. Take a look at http://www.airforums.com/ and http://www.vintage-airstream.com/forum/index.php
Dick

Can't agree with Col more. If you can find the right deal, go for an Airstream. The stuff today, especially in the under 25 ft. class, is really the bottom end of the market and the build quality reflects that.

My Aerolight (Dutchman) is only 5 years old and every weather seal on the trailer needs replacing, the fiberglass cladding on the front bunk (its a hybrid with the fold out beds) has delaminated, none of the vents work properly, The hot water heater has sprung a leak (my fault, didn't winterize it properly), the vinyl floor has split and the list goes on. Looking at maybe $2,000 worth of bits and a ton of my labor to resurrect it. Deploreable build and design quality. Having to spend 10% of the original buy cost to rebuild a trailer after only 5 years really sticks in my craw.

That 10K you spent on the Excella will be the best 10K you ever spend. Even with 36 years on it, with proper maintenance, you will be still enjoying it 20 years from now, while anything else will just be a pile of parts in an RV junkyard somewhere. If Airstream had a floor plan that worked for us it would be a no brainer.

Good luck on your quest.

Bill

Thanks again. Maybe I'll try and make a deal on that Air Stream!

Just remember to make sure your air shocks or working, or that you have new springs/shocks in the back!

I found this: http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Draw-Tite/Hitch/DWT75146.html....Any good? Also, what do I need for wiring?

Ok. Found this: http://www.etrailer.com/p-118352.html

Will I need a brake controller as well?

Absolutely. Don't cheap out here either. A good controller is worth its weight. You can get a P3 Prodigy for about $125. The cheap ones that the chain stores and UHaul sells are junk.

Bill

First off, don't count your chickens before they hatch. There are a number of companies out there advertising they have a class III receiver for our wagons based on old discontinued part numbers.

What I find curious is that the blurb says the receiver is rated 8,000lbs(12,000 with weight distributing hitch). That's a class IV rating. But later says it's 3,500lbs, which is only class II and recommended use is small campers, boat trailers, etc. which again suggests class II. I'm very suspicious that they are substituting a class II hitch, which are still available.

The need for an electric brake controller depends upon the trailer. If the trailer has electric brakes, then you need a controller. A better question is when does a trailer need brakes, and the answer to that is highly dependent upon the jurisdiction. Where I am (Ontario) it's over 3,000lbs trailer weight. and the brakes must be capable of holding the entire trailer's weight. Other places it's 2,000 lbs. Sometimes it's specified as "exceeds 50% of the tow vehicle weight". I know of at least 2 Canadian provinces that allow surge brakes up to a certain weight and over that require an independent controller. If you are crossing jurisdictions, you probably should consider the most stringent requirements -- eg: electric brakes over 2,000lbs with a break-away control and on-board battery.

The requirement for electric brakes will have an impact on your wiring. That cool wiring harness looks like it will certainly simplify the lighting requirements, however it terminates in a flat 4-pin (SAE) connector. To add electric brakes, you will have to have a different connector and run wires from the front of the car. Probably the most prevalent connector for RVs is the round 7-pin. That provides the electric brakes, plus the capability for a 12v feed (to charge the onboard battery or run accessories like an electric tongue jack) and one more auxiliary function -- usually back-up lights.

I looked up that hitch number on Drawtite's site. The good news is it a class IV receiver. The bad news is it's for a sedan, not a wagon.

Uhaul is probably the only way you'll get a new one.

Thanks, the one I have a link to in my post for for a wagon but your'e right about the specs. When you read further it says; "3500 lbs. WC/8000 lbs. WD" I don't know what that means but 3500 is a class II.

Also, I found a T-One Harness with 4-Pole Flat connector and then a "Universal Installation Kit for Trailer Brake Controller - 7-Way RV and 4-Way Flat" to go with it.

Confusing. Do I just need the universal 7 way kit or both? Looks like I'll have to do some more research. I'm looking for a small camper 18'-20' so the weight is going to be between 3500 and 5000 lbs. I'm thinking I'll need a brake controller.

Ok, the 7 way kit is if the vehicle is already equipped with a four way flat so I'll need both a 4 way harness and the 7 way kit. Here's links:

http://www.etrailer.com/p-118352.html

http://www.etrailer.com/p-ETBC7.html

I copy and paste so I can come back here and find it again, lol.

My Betty wrote:

Thanks, the one I have a link to in my post for for a wagon but your'e right about the specs. When you read further it says; "3500 lbs. WC/8000 lbs. WD" I don't know what that means but 3500 is a class II.

The hitch you linked to, the Draw-Tite 75146, is not designed for the 96 wagon. If Autoparts warehouse says it is, then they are wrong. Look that number up yourself on Draw-Tite's website.

If I understand it correctly (and I have never owned a Roadmaster Sedan), the primary difference is the exhaust. The sedan exhaust exits out the rear, the wagon exhaust exits out the side to avoid gassing the passengers when the rear door is opened. The wagon exhaust will interfere with installing the sedan receiver. If I'm wrong on those details, I'm sure someone here can jump in and correct me.

"3500 lbs WC" means it can haul 3500 lbs with a weight-carrying hitch. That is, a hitch where the entire tongue weight rests on the hitch ball.

"8,000 lbs WD" means it can haul 8,000 lbs with a weight-distributing hitch. That is, a hitch were torsion bars are integrated into the hitch assembly to transfer some of the tongue weight to the trailer wheels and some of the tongue weight to the tow vehicles front wheels. This even distribution of weight across all axles makes for a much more stable rig that rides closer to level, resists sway (which in the extreme can lead to jacknife) and puts less load on the hitch and rear suspension. For the size of camper you are talking about (up to 5,000 lbs), I would recommend a weight distributing hitch with 500# bars.

Your'e right. I just looked at it. The Draw Tite won't work with the exhaust unless I hack it and run the tail pipe directly behind the rear wheels. This one from U haul should work:

http://www.uhaul.com/MovingSupplies/Trailer-Hitches

Along with this?

http://www.adventurerv.net/600-lbs-round-bar-weight-distribution-distributing-equalizer-hitch-p-5255.html

41509 is the class III drawtite hitch that fits our wagons. You will not find a new one from them now. Class II they offer is not going to be adequate for much except a small utility trailer. Keep looking as the Cl IIIs are in yards and garages and show up from time to time.
Dick

What about the U haul one I posted? It's a Class III.

WC stands for trailer weight without a load equalizing hitch.  In other words, assuming a tongue weight of 10% of the trailer weight, the hitch is set up for 350 lbs dead weight on the ball.  WD stands for the weight capability with a load equalizing hitch. Of the conventional hitches I have used, the best one is the Equalizer.  Reese also makes a combination WD/sway setup that looks to be just as good.  If you're towing 5,000 lbs. I would suggest getting the 10,000 lb bars.  Gives you a little more wiggle room setting it up.
 
I could be wrong, but I believe the difference in the hitch mounts is not just the exhaust, but rather the width of the frame rails.  You may be forced to have one purpose built as it seems they no longer make the wagon mounts.  Make sure you are dealing with a certified shop as they have to comply with all the necessary design regulations.
 
Even with the T connector you will also have to wire in the controller separately.  It will require a master power line (20 amp fuse) to the controller and a brake output (blue) to the 7 way.  I also wire in another 20 amp power line directly to the 7 way to supply power to the trailer battery.  Additionally the controller will require a brake light tap and its own ground.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Bill

My Betty wrote:

What about the U haul one I posted? It's a Class III.

Click on the installation instructions PDF. Look at the top right hand corner of the first page:

Quote :

©1997, 2000 Draw-Tite, Inc 8-18-00

Vehicle: Buick Roadmaster Estate Wgn. Hitch No. 41509

That hitch was discontinued several years ago by Draw-Tite, but it's still listed in many catalogs, including Draw-Tite's on-line listings. Make sure you verify that you can really get that hitch before plunking down your money.

BTW: while Draw-Tite is calling it a Class III, the weight rating spec is 3,500 lbs max, which is class II.

Oh, well, if you want to make up a true class IV, I can save you the design steps.

(You have to find your own certified welding shop though.)

My hitch:

Thanks for the advice. Can I just get a Class II along an equalizer hitch and call it a day? Seems I can tow up to 8000 with the Draw Tite and a Weight Distributing "add on" hitch. Does that make sense?

Stupid question, if I start looking through junk yards, how do I know know what a ClassIII hitch looks like?

A class 3 hitch will have a 2" receiver.

Some class II hitches have 2" square receivers too, so that's not definitive.

The increased rating of the receiver when used in a WD setup is because the hitch is lifting up on the frame rather than hanging from it when the bars are attached, so the pressure is spread evenly rather than isolated to a few bolt holes.

That said, I personally prefer to ignore the WD rating of a receiver for the purposes of determining capacity, because if the trailer brakes fail, all the stopping forces are again against those mounting bolts. So if I'm towing 5,000lbs, then I want all components rated to handle at least 5,000lbs on their own. I see the function of a WD hitch to be stability and ride enhancement, not increasing the receiver's weight capacity. But strictly speaking, I'm being over-cautious and yes, you should be OK with that receiver and a 5,000lb trailer PROVIDED you used a weight distributing setup and trailer brakes. (And I definitely prefer electric brakes over surge brakes. Just try to back a trailer with surge brakes up hill!)

All this assumes you can actually still get that hitch. Unless U-haul has a stash somewhere or Draw-tite has started making them again (there does seem to be a constant demand on these forums), that model was discontinued.

Thanks. I'll call Autoparts warehouse. Their website says they have it.

Read this thread: http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showpost.php?p=2544632&postcount=5

Wow, that thread is over two years old too. They probably have nothing now, lol. I'll try calling them tomorrow to see what they say.

Maybe I should start a new thread at this point. Any ideas on a brake controller? I see there are really cheap ones and really nice ones like Prodigy or Jordan. Overall they seem to be cheap enough so I guess there's no point in "cheaping" out.

As I said in a previous post, don't cheap out on the controller. You can get a Prodigy P2 now for 125 bucks and you'll have it for years. This is a true proportional braking controller that is considered the standard in the industry. A lot of the cheepys are timed or pulse controllers that can get real wonky fast and are notorious for having annoying characteristics.

Have tried them all and the Prodigy is well worth the bucks. Give the wireless ones a few years to work out the bugs. Have heard mixed reviews.

Bill

Welp, I got $300 tied up with Uhaul so far over a hitch that they can't deliver. I'm about to give the search, sell the car and get a truck or a van.

How big of a difference is the regular sedan wagon hitch from the wagon besides width? I know someone who might be able to modify it for me.

Don't give up. My step Dad bought his RMW 2/2012 specifically to tow a boat, then we went through hell trying to find a hitch, he called over 25 places local and online that claimed to have it and no one did. I ended up getting one used of the SS forum after putting up a wanted post. I also got one for myself that way as well. I don't know the exact differences between the wagon and sedan hitch, but I do know the wagon frame is boxed, and has a framing member going across the back between the two frame rails that I believe the hitch partially bolts to. The sedan is a C-channel frame, and has no cross member in the back.

According to this fellow, the sedan hitch "sort of" fits the wagon:

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showpost.php?p=2563962&postcount=21

Anyway, if you know a decent welder who can modify a sedan hitch, then the one I designed and built might be within reach of his skills. I've used it for a couple of years now. It's strong enough to pull a tank out of the ditch  

I personally would have taken the drawings to a small fab shop and got a quote to have it fabbed up and installed,
It is a good design and he was nice enough to share it,,
The investment in another vehicle would in my opinion not be the most economical way of solving the problem,,
Me personally I would want the strongest hitch i could get on the car,. Then i can tow anything,.and not be concerned.
What is your budget?

Yes, thanks buickwagon. I'll use your specs. My budget is around $300.

If I recall correctly, the material cost was around $100. I think about $30 of that was the Gr. 8 bolts. $20 for the 8" length of pre-fabbed tube for the receiver itself, another $20 or $30 each for the 40" piece of plain 2-1/2" box tube for the cross bar and a 30" piece of 4"x4"x 1/4" angle iron.

Thanks. I printed out the specs. I think I'm going to take the car and your design down to my local welder.

My Betty wrote:

Yes, thanks buickwagon. I'll use your specs. My budget is around $300.

I think you may have to expand the budget a little,.
maybe add the hitch to the car,. then purchase a good brake controller a little later,. then a good wiring harness after that.
I personally would go with the larger 7 pin connector, and buy a 7-4 adapter for the smaller units,.
I have quite a bit of experience towing stuff,.and i,ve had some difficult lessons along the way.

Yeah, I already have a Prodigy P2 and a 7 pin wiring kit. Just need the hitch, lol.

As an alternative to the adapter route, may I suggest one of these?



The integral SAE flat 4-pin to the left of the round 7-pin has parallel terminals for the turn, tail and ground. Not only is there one less potential failure point, you don't end up with a collection of 3 adapters because you can't remember where you put the last one you bought ;-)

BTW: I have the +12v terminal on the round connector fed with #8 copper through an 80 amp fuse. Why? To power a trailer-hitch mounted winch. Very handy while your teenage kids learn to drive in the snow. The first use pays for the trailer hitch...

Not meaning to necro the thread, but I can just take those plans to a fabrication shop and someone with half a brain can weld me up that hitch?

That's the idea...

(Of course, if you get the guy with only half a brain, you might want to add the pictures too).

Oh we have plenty of people here with less than half.

I'll just hunt down the oldest guy in the shop.

Interesting approach: find the guy who has survived the longest. I guess it does tend to eliminate the ones who's greatest ambition in life is to win a Darwin Award.

I took the plans down to my local welder and they $450 to fabricate one! I guess I'll keep looking for a used one.