Holy Dampness!

Have not driven the 96 Roady in several weeks. Have had a lot of rain and one snowfall. I opened her up today and the entire interior is damp! Water condensation on interior of windshield and the sunroof glasses. headliner damp, floors damp, etc. I got this wagon earlier in the year so have not owned it over a winter. I am just beside myself. I wont be able to get to exploring till things warm up but this just irks me as there is no good place to start as it is not localised in just one area. I am worried this will seperate my headliner which was not sagging prior. It appears that the sunvisors have already seperated and now have that sag in them. Damn this is disheartening.

Check the area under the front of the roof rack. The corners of the rear support for the vista glass have a tendency to rot. If they have become rotten, you may also have some rust under the vista glass. Are the floors soggy wet? Another area to check is the channel under the sides of the roof rack. There is a sealant in the recess that can crack and allow water to leak between the body panels.

First thing to do is get a tarp till things warm up.

Tom

Almost all my B-bodies, boxys and round-bodies, seem to have a leak that shows up on the passenger side front floor. Drips from the dash and gets wet under the floor mat. 79 Electra, '86 Caprice, 89 Custom Cruiser, and my '92 OCC all had this leak (only my '96 Roady didn't do this). Never huge, but always a little dampness there.

Such fun.

81X11 wrote:

Almost all my B-bodies, boxys and round-bodies, seem to have a leak that shows up on the passenger side front floor.   Drips from the dash and gets wet under the floor mat.   79 Electra, '86 Caprice, 89 Custom Cruiser, and my '92 OCC all had this leak (only my '96 Roady didn't do this).   Never huge, but always a little dampness there.  

Such fun.

evap drips,..

I stopped the evap tray leaks and still had a major leak on the passenger's side. It turned out to be the front windshield right in front of the passenger's seat. It leaked like a sieve. The water ran down the windshield, and the cover over the cabin air intake acted like a dam, and pushed the water under the windshield where it did not make a good seal with the body. I used some leftover urethane from installing the rest of the glass to fill in across the window up to the edge of the glass. In the past I had a leak there, and the metal was rusty. I had a shop fix it, but the window did not get put in properly. I had it reinstalled, and the area in front of the passenger's side seat did not seal properly. After putting the urethane along the front of the glass, I now have a bone dry floor. I cleaned the area with acetone until I got no dirt. I used a spatula to push the urethane under the glass until there were no air bubbles behind the new urethane. I sealed the area about 6-8 inches on each side of the cover for the cabin air intake.

Ditto Fred on the front, I resealed my evap ttray on reinstallation with silicone and my floor still gets wet up there. It evaporates fairly quickly so I live with it for now.....


Another leak prone area is the rear D-pillars. Could be the roof rack or the tops of the side glass, but it runs down and drips out of the bottom the grab handles. Pull the plastic 'glove' box pieces out, I've had cars have a fish bowl in there (shop vac it out). Also check the third seat well, it will hold water too. Spare tire side does have a drain hole but it could be leaking over there too.

I would run it with the heat on to help dry it out and tarp it until it gets warmer. Some Damp Rid would be a good idea too. Don't want mold to start.

Sprocket wrote:

Ditto Fred on the front, I resealed my evap ttray on reinstallation with silicone and my floor still gets wet up there.  It evaporates fairly quickly so I live with it for now.....


Another leak  prone area is the rear D-pillars.  Could be the roof rack or the tops of the side glass, but it runs down and drips out of the bottom the grab handles.  Pull the plastic 'glove' box pieces out, I've had cars have a fish bowl in there (shop vac it out).  Also check the third seat well, it will hold water too.  Spare tire side does have a drain hole but it could be leaking over there too.

I would run it with the heat on to help dry it out and tarp it until it gets warmer.  Some Damp Rid would be a good idea too.  Don't want mold to start.

The leak that runs out of the grab handles comes from one of three sources. The body panel joint under the edge of the roof rack, the top edge of the quarter glass, or the rear support for the vista glass (rusted out). The headliner re-curves up to meet the body at the top of the window. In doing so, it makes a channel that slopes down and directs the water back into the grab handle at the top screw. I had the headliner out of my 91 for about a year and a half, and when it rained, the water dripped right at the rear speaker, where it would run through the grab handles, and into the pans with the headliner installed. When I removed the glass for replacement, the front foot of the glass was not attached to the body, and the metal under the urethane was rusty. I also put a thin film roofing sealer in the joint under the edge of the roof rack sides. I scraped any loose old sealant out before putting the new in. I have not had a leak in the rear of the car since. While I had the roof rack off, I could not help but notice the corners of the rear support for the vista glass had huge holes rusted in them (I could stick my thumb in to the holes). I filled them in with Bondo and some scrap carbon fiber cloth.

The D pillar is actually behind the grab handle, and would not run into the handle if it leaked.

If the vista window leaks, it can run down the B or C pillar, and pool on the floor. My driver's side seatbelt gets damp when it rains, and I suspect the vista roof has a leak along that side. I am going to try some sealer from the inside to stop it. It would be nice to have a long tube to apply some urethane to the inside of the vista glass seal.

Wow.  Lots to check here.  Sounds like it would be prudent to drop the headliner and completely remove luggage rack and reseal and replace.  

I drove the car all day today with the heat blasting to dry things out some.  The interior is in terrific shape so its hard to say that this has been a long term leak wherever it is.

I will keep an eye on it till the weather warms up.

Anyone ever try the tracer product available on the market?  Apparantly there is a safe dye that is attached to a garden hose, you spray the heck out of the car, then get in with an included UV light and it will show where the water is coming in.  Seems like it would be smarter then the old method of sparying and searching and hoping to see something.

Using the dye can be helpful, but sometimes it just verifies that you have a leak. You need to isolate areas of the car to see exactly where the leak is. I put small containment barriers about every 6 inches in the clay dam I used to give me specific information about where the leak was. When one of the areas drained, I had the leak localized, and could then attack it without having to guess the location over a wider range. There are some large areas that need attention over their entire scope, but if you can define exactly where it is, you can do minimal work in some difficult areas and be confident that you fixed it.

leaks can be numerous, and can flow pretty good,. when they are a "big" leak,. water will migrate all over the place making it harder to pin point entry point,.
I have resealed two of my wagons roofs, using silicone and the new inserts for the roof rack,.the black wagon had to have the side window pulled and re-urethaned,.entry point was near the back door yet it ran along the seam and filled the rear compartment over the back wheel,.
I opened up the drain holes some,
The old gold run of the mill rusty roady, it leaked too,. but i added exit holes,   and that really kept things maneageable,. in fact it dried out pretty quick on warmer days. Winter time with snowy boots etc, can be a bitch, the carpets stay soaked, then freeze.

Hi All...

Will not attack this till the spring at this point. What I plan to do first is completely remove the top luggage rack and rub strips and work from there. I will need to know the well nut sizes for replacements if anyone happens to have the sizes or part numbers? I want to order them in advance and have them ready as I want this to be a one day project (the roof part). I plan on using the fresh well nuts along with plenty of urethane to seals things up tightly.

Anyone with the well nut sizes?

The well nuts are identified by the threads of the screws. I believe all of the wagons had 5mm wellnuts on the center rails.

The sides of the rack use rivnuts, and they are also sized by the thread of the screw. I believe the RMs are 5mm, and the Caprice is 6mm. You can tighten the rivnuts by making a tool from a screw, washer, and a nut. Thread the nut on the screw, put the washer on the screw, thread the screw into the rivnut, hold the screw in place, and turn the nut to tighten it against the washer and rivnut, use enough force to tighten it snuggly (or use a rivnut tool if you have one).

Urethane is not necessary to seal the wellnuts. It may help with the rivnuts. If you paint the rivnuts, you can seal them. Use rust repair before painting the rivnuts. Put some anti-seize on the rivnut screws before you install them.

I drilled the rivnut holes out and put wellnuts in their place. The only installment issue there is that they need a spacer to keep the wellnuts from pulling out of the body before they expand. I used about 1/8 inch. The wellnuts are not structural, so you can not use the roof rack to haul anything of any consequence if you choose this route.

The studs and nuts that hold the front trim between the side rails may have deteriorated, and can cause leaks. I used roofing cement to seal them, because it stays flexible.

I have had the complete interior out for months now trying to isolate leaks. I will share my findings soon with pics. I thought I finally got them all done and low and behold, I found 2 more! Dang...it just keeps going. I have narrowed it down to possibly the vista glass outer ring. I believe water is seeping in atop the outer black moulding as opposed from the seal between body and glass.

This has been such a long journey. I had the entire luggage rack off and resealed, and now tore it all off again to chase these last 2 leaks at rear of vista glass.

Just maddening! I highly recommend anyone buying a wagon spend the time to strip it down and seal it before they start getting to use it. There can be nothing more frustrating than a damp interior!