Yet another water pump issue

So I had to replace another water pump. I think this makes # 5. This one failed in a way I never imagined as you'll see from the picture of it. Of course this was directly above the opti and soaked it good. Once I got the plug dried out the car seemes to be running ok but it was soaked enough the car wouldn't crank. This happened while driving and the first indication I had was when it started missing terribly.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The hole is right below the thermostat on the back side. Anyone else ever see anything like this?

Jon

Have never seen this!! Did is seem to "Rot" from the inside or outside?

#5?? In ten years or just here recently?

No "rot" at all - it just developed a hole. It must have been a problem with the casting. I just put this pump on in Oct so it was relatively new.

Jon

94Woody wrote:

#5?? In ten years or just here recently?

Since August or so. Of course I've also put 58,000 miles on the car since july '10.

Jon

Jon I meant to ask you if you had managed to repair all the damage from the deer strike?What are you doing to put 58000 miles on your wagon in such a
short time period?Or do you just really love driving your wagon?The water pump going out that way kinda scares me.Did you use any coolant additives?
Seems like a pinhole in the casting would have been caught prior to shipping or at least a product recall might have been issued if you kept your receipt.
Just got a bunch of parts I needed for my LT-1 wagon,so going to be busy.Gotta see my doc tomorrow about this damn herni and get that thing out of
the way.
Take Care
Jim Gordon

I remember a few months ago he posted a thread about his wagon got him a job. Medical deliveries I think?


That's really crappy about the hole in the pump. I'd dig for my receipt and go raging back to the parts store. That's ridiculous.

Stingroo wrote:

I remember a few months ago he posted a thread about his wagon got him a job. Medical deliveries I think?


That's really crappy about the hole in the pump. I'd dig for my receipt and go raging back to the parts store. That's ridiculous.

Me to!!!!!

That's crazy... A flaw in the metal itself? How do you find these pumps?

81X11 wrote:

That's crazy... A flaw in the metal itself? How do you find these pumps?

for some of us, it's Karma

I'm still working for the courier company and that's why all the miles. Jim, I haven't yet fixed all the damage. Hopefully when the weather gets nicer.

I didn't have to search for a receipt - the man I deal with at Advance shook his head and gave me another one. I took the old one back and did another labor claim. last time I got a whole $40.00 back from them but better than nothing. We'll see this time. He did say he's never seen one come back with that problem.

You're right about the Karma, Robert. It seems like I can't have a simple easy to fix problem. Everything has to be complicated.

Jon

only thing like that I've ever seen is the 'marine' water pump I bought for my 4.3 liter OMC (read Chevy). same water pump as SB 350. well after 9 months the pin in weep hole rotted out as they didn't use stainless so even though I paid 180 for a 30 dollar water pump and salt water got all over the bottom of the motor.

six months later the oil pan rotted through from the salt.... lot's of JB weld and a craig's list for sale ad fixed that issue

I don't know what the other issues in the past with water pumps you had, but the one with the pin whole looked alot like electrlysis. Check this out, I've seen it cause pin holes to dime sized holes. In copper and other soft metals.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

How do you check for electrolysis? Stick a multimeter in the radiator water and see if there's a current to ground?

my second pump started leaking from the " weep hole" (just like the first) 3rd pump is an Edelbrock. Is still running after 30K.

I heard such bad things about the LT1 water pump that when my 96 RMW 101k miles went out I Used a CSR Billett electric. Been on there about 6 months and no problems. I had to do mech fan delete but that needed to be done anyway. I really like the fact that I can do a roadside swap of the waterpump as long as I have a spare with me. I added a Cyberdyne digital gauge so I can tell exectly what my temp is. my temp gauge wasnt working and didnt see any sense in fixing it since it didnt tell me what the temp was anyway.

Dose anyone know if there is an Idiot light that comes on for overheating? Would the thing even work since the gauge doesnt work? I was thinking about tapping into the idiot light if there is one and adding a Buzzer. Maybe using on of those audible backup alarms that replace your backup lamps.

Man how my mind wonders when I get to thinking about my Roadmonster.

I've looked around before, and I can't find anyone who makes a warning light kit. There are different [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] but most of them only measure voltage. That will tell you if there is no power going to the pump, but it won't help if the pump seizes up.

Kevin Harnett designed a circuit that measures current. His webpage has disappeared since the last time I looked. Luckily, I saved the information to a MS Word file. I'll load it up to my Photobucket page.

The following information is all written by Kevin Harnett.


Electric Coolant Pump Current Monitoring Circuit

I moved out to Tucson Arizona a couple of years ago from Maine where I had never had any problems keeping my coolant temps under control in the summer. My first summer in 110 degree heat found my engine temps soaring and I decided to upgrade my cooling system. I ordered a Be Cool Radiator and a CSI Electric Water Pump. I decided to go with the electric pump because they move a constant volume of water (about 30 gpm) which is a lot more than what I can move in stop and go traffic. Now I had some reservations about the electric pump because I had heard that they are not as reliable as a mechanical pumps and I didn't want the pump to fail without knowing about it. I decided to build a pump failure alarm which would alert me when the pump failed. I decided to monitor the current through the pump as this would be the most accurate way of assessing the health of the motor. The following is a description of the coolant pump current monitor I designed:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Circuit Description

This Circuit operates using an LM393 Voltage Comparitor to determine whether the current through the electric water pump has fallen below a specified threshold. The output of this comparitor is high whenever the + input voltage is greater than the - input voltage, and the output of the comparitor is low when the - input is greater than the + input to the device. The normal operation (No Pump Failure) of the circuit is designed so the comparitor output is high and both transistors are biased on. When the transistors are turned on the LED has current flowing through it and illuminates. The buzzer is seeing less than .3 volts with the transistors on and will not turn on.

In this circuit it is important to understand the function of the 60 milliohm (.06 ohm) resistor in the circuit. This resistor as a current sensor and can sometimes be referred to as a shunt resistor in this configuration. It is very important that the resistor is installed correctly to function properly. The resistor should be installed in the pump ground wire within a few inches of the actual ground termination lug. The sense wire to pin 3 of the comparitor needs to be installed on the pump side solder terminal of the shunt resistor so that it senses only the voltage dropped across the resistor.

When the normal operating current (5.8-6 Amps) is flowing through the shunt resistor it drops between 346-360 millivolts. This sense voltage is applied to pin 3 of the LM393. Pin 2 of the LM 393 is fixed by a voltage divider to 240 millivolts. The fixed voltage at pin 2 is the threshold for the alarm to trigger. When the sense voltage falls below 240 millivolts the comparitor output (pin 1) goes low. This action extinguishes the LED and the buzzer will sound. The comparitor threshold at pin 2 (240 millivolts) is set to trigger the alarm when pump current falls below 4 amps.

When Substituting in a 50 Milliohm Shunt Resistor

I have also substituted a 50 milliohm shunt resistor into the sensing circuit when I have not been able to find the 25 watt 60 milliohm resistors. When using a 50 milliohm shunt resistor the 5.6K ohm resistor in the voltage divider circuit should be replaced by a 6.8K ohm resistor to maintain the alarm threshold at 4 amps through the pump.

Parts List Notes

The .06 Ohm (60-milliohm) resistor in the coolant pump return will dissipate over 2 watts. A minimum power rating for this resistor should be 5 watts. But this may not be suitable for your installation as the only 5-watt resistors I found had axial leads, which seemed too small. I used a 25-watt metal case resistor that had generous soldering lugs for the 12 gage pump wires. I have found that the best resistors for this application are the metal cased wire wound power resistors.

The 390 Ohm resistor will dissipate close to ½ watt. The minimum power rating for this resistor should be 1 watt.

The remaining resistors in this circuit are ¼ watt 5% resistors.
The LED is speced to be a common red LED that drops 1.6 VDC with a nominal current of between 12-20 mA.

The Buzzer in this circuit is a piezo audio buzzer with the following specifications:

• Operating Voltage 3 - 16 VDC
• Rated Voltage 12 VDC
• Current Consumption 5.8 mA
• Resonant Frequency 4000 Hz
• Sound Pressure Level @ 10 cm Typical 86 dBA

It can be purchased online from Jameco Electronics as P/N 196357

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Last updated 20.6.2004


Be aware that Kevin designed it for a CSI/R water pump. If you use it for a Mezeire, check the specs of that pump.

Since it's an old design, a lot of the part numbers have changed. You'll have to poke around a bit to get the current numbers.