Removing the vista roof on the BRMW

We started removing the glass from the donor car today.

We cracked the good, donor windshield trying to remove it. It's a small crack that does a complete "loop" from the edge, in about an inch and back to the edge underneath the black border on the window. I'm thinking it will be fine. We were able to eventually remove the windshield without further damage.

Then we turned our attention to the vista roof, this time exercising a bit more caution. We got all the nuts off of the studs, but that thing just isn't budging.

Any hints, tips or tricks for removing the vista roof without breaking it?

turbojimmy wrote:

We started removing the glass from the donor car today.

We cracked the good, donor windshield trying to remove it. It's a small crack that does a complete "loop" from the edge, in about an inch and back to the edge underneath the black border on the window. I'm thinking it will be fine. We were able to eventually remove the windshield without further damage.

Then we turned our attention to the vista roof, this time exercising a bit more caution. We got all the nuts off of the studs, but that thing just isn't budging.

Any hints, tips or tricks for removing the vista roof without breaking it?

It's also held in with some very thick adhesive. I've never removed one but some heat from a heat gun to help soften the glue might help.

It's not a good sign that we couldn't even get the frame on the damaged Betty to budge. Since the glass is already broken, big screwdrivers and such were employed. No dice.

We do have a heat gun, which proved instrumental in the windshield removal. Will have to apply it to the vista roof.

been there done that did a video series about it

the guy who cut out the vista glass used one of these

http://www.toolaid.com/content/18-urethane-cut-out-knife

The one I got just lifted off after removing all of the nuts including the ones along the sides. Make sure you got all of the nuts off. It had gooey glue that got stringy when it was pulled up. My glass man said it was OEM butyl. One of the easiest thing I have ever done on one of these cars. It was about 75 deg.

The side windows...well that is another story.

Fred got lucky. I tried taking one out in 90 degree summer and yes it was GOOEY and I broke the biatch on the last corner.

That is interesting, because the whole window lifted straight up. No corners sticking. Just made sure all the nuts were removed.

fred you got lucky and got one from a car that had it changed, GM used urethane, butyl doesn't bond to the body and glass structurally GM hasn't used butyl since the 80's

Hey Buick Estate...The videos in this thread no longer playable. Do you have them located elsewhere?

no they are no longer posted anywhere sorry

The advise I can give is: Tape the edges of the opening, so when you slip, you do not cut yourself, You can get a long handled knife at the local auto paint shop. Get a long knife blade if you can, and keep it close to the body as you work along the seam. Keep it sharp with a wetstone. Do it on a cool day, because you will be working hard. Make numerous cuts over the same area. Just about the time you are ready to give up, you will get it out.

Is the black ring around the bubble glass able to be removed to check seal to body? Are there clips holding this down?

No the reveal is part of the glass. It is cast onto the glass. Do not try to cut the window out from the outside, or you will ruin it, and gouge your paint. I tried that on a junk yard car, and the knife cut into the rubber, and at that point I quit because the part was no longer usable. I have since removed one from the inside, and other than taking what seemed forever, it came out clean, and no breakage (I think I wasted some of my meager ration of good luck on removing a scrap vista window). I use a knife blade on my osculating tool to cut urethane, but it is not long enough to reach the urethane on the vista roof. I used an extended handle box cutter. Make sure you replace the blade regularly so that it does not go dull. If you can put some lubricant on the blade it may make it easier to cut the urethane. If you do use lubricant, you will have to make sure it is all removed, or the urethane will not stick to it. Prep the surface as per instructions, or the urethane will not stick either.

Awesome. This is just the info I was looking for. Thanks Fred!

So long story short...I am in desperate need of a great shape vista glass. I damaged mine trying to remove it for a reseal. I have a PM out to Fred, but wondering if anyone else might have one tucked away?

I have a long road trip planned in a couple of months and need the "fix the leaks" project over with!

The glass will be enroute on Monday. Thanks Lance.

BTW I got lucky again with a butyl install. That butyl is almost as much of a PITA as the urethane, but in its own special way.

I may pull one (when I find another one) and keep it in stock.

And a massive Thank You Fred! It was incredable that you were willing to go to a yard and pull the glass for me and in that heat! I cannot thank you enough for going above and beyond.

I having been tossing around the idea of butyl bead it in but mine was urethane and from what I can find on the web, many say to not do butyl over urethane residue. Others insisting for any glass laying atop a car (rather than back and side glass) should be butyl.

Hard to know which way to go.

If you can get the urethane off of the seating area, you can then butyl with no ramifications.

Well all the effort to remove the old vista glass was indeed worth it. See pic below. I had one nagging remaining leak I could not find and isolated off my water tests to the rear corners of the vista glass. Sure enough, I had a rust spot on the rear fastner hole on the drivers side. This would explain why when I went to undo the vista glass nuts that the stud fell off when I touched it with my finger.

I will grind this down and repair before I install tne new glass Fred is sending.

The urethane was not adhering to the rust and water was coming in and running both forward and rearward and placing water in differing areas.

I have decided to use urethane for structural reasons after researching all the info on the web.

Learn something new everyday.....

So the vista glass in both my wagons are the same...a dark tint.  I assumed they were all the same.  From the pics below, you will see there is a different tinted one.  The one Fred sent says "Grey" and my original says "Deep Tint".  Both my wagons are like the one on the left in Deep Tint.







The Grey seems to be a darker tint which is fine by me.

Fred; what year did you pull the glass from?  It would be nice to know when the change was made.

could it be a regional thing?

So I prepped and put in the new vista glass.  After lengthy searching the inter web for proper advice with regards to using urethane verses Butyl, I was going to urethane it for structural reasons.  Well, I completely changed course and used butyl.

My only concern is in the very center of the roof.  The front fasteners are to the left and right but no fastner in the center.  If someone were to lean dead center near the glass (maybe with a cargo carrier, etc.), I fear that it would dip in the center and the seal could get compromised.  I may be over thinking it too.

I bought 2 tubes of Butyl (3M bedding and glazing compound) but only used 1.  I cut the tip at 1/4" and did the square cutout so when applying the bead, it leaves a tall column with defined walls.  This provides for the optimum contact with gasket and body.  I applied it at about 1/4" thick and about 1/2" tall (per the FSM).

I dry ran the glass already and put down tape markers to ensure that I have it poperly lined up.  With assistance, I lightly layed it in the opening.  Did a slight final nudge and then downward pressure.

Then it was a matter of tightening up the fasteners.  Each fastner has a flat bottom at the gasket and it seats perfectly flat/flush with the body.  I tightened the nuts to 17 inch pounds.  FSM said 25 but that is just insane to over torque these.

I paddled in an even seam along the back and left the sides and front alone.  I checked the seal with a borescope and have good contact all the way around.

I will water test tomorrow.  I wanted the Butyl time to skin over and warm up in the sun.

One thing of note here.  My original glass was set in Urethane but some of these were set in Butyl.  Do not know why or when this changed but considering the nightmare it is to remove the urethane versions, I recommend Butyl.  Interestingly, those vista glasses installed with urethane and rear quarter glasses seem to fail.  Since these glasses are incapsulated, makes sense to use Butyl when you can.  If you screw up a urethane seal you are just that.  You screw up a Butyl seal, you can always paddle more in or fairly effortlessly reset the glass.

With mine, the factory set glass had urethane globed in heavy near the back of the drivers side channel.  This was bad news.  It meant that water under the rim seal had nowhere to go so it stayed and pooled around the back fastener.  I am deducing that this is what helped the seal to fail at this location in my circumstance.  If you do a replacement, be sure yo do not block the run channel all the way around so water can disperse as necessary.

Thank you Fred for taking my call the other day.  Fred let me bounce off of him my ideas for the Butyl seal.  We had a great conversation and I so appreciate him taking the time to discuss things.

Crossing my fingers for tomorrow's water test!

PS- The darker factory tint (Grey) glass that Fred sent is really nice and will surely help reduce heat absorption in the wagon.

If anyone needs to replace their vista window, I picked another one that was installed with butyl, This one came off of a 93 just like the one Lance got. You can tell if the glass was installed with butyl by touching the sealant that has oozed out from under the reveal. If it feels a little soft it is butyl.

I have heard the the wire trick before makes sense to me......

Wire does not work with the reveal. It will gouge the edge of the rubber. One of the best things to use is a hood release cable, but you need something to hold it with...vice grips, gloves, etc. You have to slide it back and forth like a saw to cut the urethane.

Like Fred said.  When it comes to the Vista glass, the wire will surely cut into the rubber reveal molding and scratch up your body paint near the opening something terrible.  They need to be carefully cut out from the inside.  The urethane is such a challenge to cut through on these.  Finding one that was set in Butyl is a saving grace for replacement.  I set my replacement in Butyl too in case anything happens in the future I can fairly easily remove and reset.  With each passing day of the crushers, these top glasses are getting rarer!