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 Options for good handling in all-road situations?

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bamalongroof
jayoldschool
Viceroy454
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Viceroy454

Viceroy454


Posts : 45
Join date : 2014-08-04

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PostSubject: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 04, 2014 9:40 pm

Later this year, I am going to be driving my 1992 Caprice Wagon down through South America, where the road surface might be.......whatever. Poor conditions are to be expected. I am not trying to make an off roader; just something that can take poor road conditions well, while keeping as much control as possible. In other words, I don't want to make a softy sprung sway machine out of her just to deal with crap roads. I definitely want to keep stock ride height. If any springs options add a bit of height, no problem, but I'm not looking to make a monster truck. Are there any options for adjustability in shocks? Is soft spring/stiff swaybar the way to go? I don't know if anyone has ever done this before with a Caprice Wagon, but I will be going all the way down to Argentina, and then boarding a boat to Antarctica (car is not coming along at that point), so I have a long journey through some rather diverse conditions to get to my destination.

International logistics is my profession, so I will be shipping her back by boat once I depart South America........or maybe send her to Europe for a Eurotrip.....don't know yet.

Goals: Retain as much good handling as possibe, tame crappy roads/trails, adjustable shocks if possible, stock or slightly higher ride height, durability a must.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
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jayoldschool

jayoldschool


Posts : 2728
Join date : 2009-06-14

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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 04, 2014 10:25 pm

There are increased rate Moog springs, someone (JLac?) will have a PN for you. I would go with a 235 75 15 LT tire, maybe even taller. Maybe a 29 10.5 15... real truck tires. A safari wagon. I love it. Please put a cargo basket up top, and at least four KC Hilites on it!
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Viceroy454

Viceroy454


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Join date : 2014-08-04

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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 04, 2014 10:55 pm

It's just going to be me and myself, so no roof space will be necessary to be taken up. Even with an Odyssey PC2250 and additional fuel tank under the floor in the third seat area, I'll have more than enough space left for my stuff. I travel light. I want to keep as much off of the exterior as possible, lest theft become an issue. If I had a team to go with me, I wouldn't mind things like jerry cans, LED lights, roof baggage, etc, but I don't want stuff getting ripped off my car when she's alone, and I don't want anyone to think I'm worth kidnapping. I've been down there before. Some of those spots get real interesting.

Good idea on the LT tires. They'll be very durable under all conditions. They should have stiffer sidewalls than the passenger car tires, I would imagine.
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bamalongroof

bamalongroof


Posts : 761
Join date : 2013-08-23
Age : 70
Location : Huntsville, AL

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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeMon Aug 04, 2014 10:56 pm

Have a good trip and remember you have a much better vehicle too begin with than most of those you will see on the road extra ground clearance will be helpful.
If you have any trouble in Colombia I have friends there with auto repair/rebuild shops send an email if you need help there. Jeff
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Viceroy454

Viceroy454


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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 05, 2014 6:02 pm

God willing I wont find myself on the side of the road in Colombia. But if I do, I'll remember that.  Laughing 
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sherlock9c1




Posts : 2373
Join date : 2009-05-28
Location : Huntsville, AL

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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 05, 2014 6:28 pm

I think you are at a point of trading off handling performance for mere survivability.  

Thick sidewalls are your first defense against potholes and road problems, so I'd definitely install the biggest sidewall you can.   9C1 front springs may give you the tallest front end height which would translate into the most available suspension travel.   Also look into the S10 ZQ8 bumpstops which would help cushion any bottom-out impacts in the front suspension.  

I would have recommended airlift1000 airbags for the rear springs but that's something else to break, and so far from the USA I'd go for simple.  The springs jayoldschool recommended would work best.

Bilstein shocks have never failed me.  I'd vote for their B46-1516/B46-1517 for reliability and damping rate. Then again, maybe some Gabriels or Monroes might be best, so that you can simply sacrifice to the south American roads and replace them when the car gets back to the USA.
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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 05, 2014 6:55 pm

Get a high quality 12 volt compressor and a pro-grade tire repair kit and then learn how to use it.Also buy extra plugs because you will use a lot of them during the trip.A water filtration kit might be a good idea too.
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl


Posts : 7147
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 75
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 05, 2014 8:44 pm

Take an extra water pump, a 5 qt. bottle of oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid, A dozen various sizes of hose clamps, a roll of ceiling hanger wire, extra serpentine belt (or 2), a complete set of exterior light bulbs, a pair of wiper blades (or 2), rear view mirror glue, and a couple of air filters. A water proof tarp to lay on if you have trouble in a wet area (after rain). A good metric tool kit with 5.5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17mm sockets and wrenches, a Crescent wrench, #2 & 3 Phillips and flat blade screwdrivers, and a channel lock pliers, vice grips, and a couple of rolls of duct tape.

There should be a lot of Chevy LO3/5 parts in South America. A guy here grabs every one that hits the yard, and ships them there by the container full.

If you use 29 inch tires you will have plenty of ground clearance. I have them on my 92 OCC, and they make it look like a truck. You could go as far as 30 inches, and still have clearance in the wheel wells. I would stay with a 225 width. Your speedo will be off about 4 mph per inch in height. You do not have to change the VSS gear, but one tooth for each inch is a good rule of thumb.

You should put new hoses on everything before you leave.
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jayoldschool

jayoldschool


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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 05, 2014 9:31 pm

Hmm, skid plate for the oil pan and trans pan would be easy to make...
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Viceroy454

Viceroy454


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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 05, 2014 11:29 pm

Excellent! Thank you. This is all very good stuff. Some I had already thought of, but seeing others with the same ideas definitely makes me feel more confident. Wink

I will definitely be bringing a lot of spares, tools, patches/epoxies/glues of all varieties, and breakdown gear. I did diesel/marine/heavy truck maintenance for 7 years, so I definitely know how to do hard work in the field, wherever it may be.

I just dropped off an old water pump today to a fabricator who is making me a nice very solid mount for a second alternator, so I will have more than enough amperage to run power tools of all varieties, compressor, lights, etc. Considering going with dual Odyssey PC2250's to give myself maximum engine-off power reserve as well. These are the same batteries used to power the Abrams tank's turret during engine-off operations, so durability and dependability are proven.

The air bags were under consideration, because I like the idea of being able to stiffen up the spring rate when I want to, but I have heard of and seen way too many issues with those.

I'm looking into whether some sort of off-road adjustable truck shock could be spec'd for the rear. I've seen them adapted to far far more unlikely applications. The front will be another story entirely, but at least the rear, which will bear most of the burden, will be durable, adjustable, and controllable.

Skid plates are a must. The oil pan, filter, trans pan, and even the plastic fuel tank definitely concern me. Something that would also protect the center link and keeps debris from kicking up into the engine bay would be ideal.

I'm kicking around the idea of a flush mounted snorkel going up the A-pillar. I don't plan on submerging, but a big blunt car like the Caprice will push quite a head of water in front of it even if the water is not hood-high, and the engine fan will do some of its own pumping and splashing as well. My experiences in off-road have taught me not to rely on electric fans. They have a habit of failure when the blades all of a sudden encounter water.

For the ignition system, I'm looking at converting to the Mecruiser Thunderbolt ignition. It is fully sealed, and vented by engine vacuum connections. It should be impervious to water contamination when properly arranged.

Also from the Mercruiser page will be a fuel/water separator.

Flexible stainless hoses will be replacing all radiator and heater hoses. Stainless braided line will be replacing as much as I can.

Purifications tablets, water filter, and other goodies from US Cavalry are also coming along.

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phantom 309

phantom 309


Posts : 5848
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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 05, 2014 11:58 pm

sounds like you have quite a budget,.

i personally would want a diesel 4x4 pickup for such a journey,.with a very large tidy tank so as to cover long distances at 80 + mph,.especially the first 250 miles inside the mexican border,.and a simple honda genset might be a very practical investment, along with a decent 20V cordless modular tool setup,.
complete with well hidden compartment for large bore semi auto pistol,..
I hope that your experience doing maintenance will lend itself to being able to macgyver your way out of situations,.
perhaps investigate the highway bandido problem in the northern part of mexico,.and the network of local spies that are very quick to pass on the info regarding license plates for out of country vehicles,.

good luck, and please keep us updated, it should be quite a quest,.
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl


Posts : 7147
Join date : 2009-11-13
Age : 75
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 06, 2014 8:40 am

Be careful with the ignition system. There is a limited amount of space below the cowl, and the distributor is a special short one just for the B-body.

The front shock mounts on the lower A arms are not substantial enough to accept much added pressure, and putting a coil-over on them may cause the mount to fail.

You should take a couple of extra fuel filters and an AC Delco or Delphi fuel pump. Fuel pumps are noted to go out at the most inappropriate times.

Some painted on patina to make it look like a beater would enhance your ability to pass for poor/no money on board.

Looks like we have you loaded to the roof line.
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jayoldschool

jayoldschool


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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 06, 2014 1:19 pm

I'd also lose the cat so you can run leaded when you need to. It will kill the O2 eventually, though.
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Viceroy454

Viceroy454


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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 06, 2014 11:22 pm

Cat is already out. FL doesn't test anything. I can put in an O2 sensor that will take the lead. Good idea.

A diesel truck would be nice. I have a Ram 3500, but then I wouldn't get to do it in my Caprice. Firearms are out. I don't want to end up crying to Obama in a Mexican prison.

I'm not going to do coil overs on the front or rear. Just good off road shocks with major adjustability maybe. She's not bad at all over rough roads, even with regular suspension, so I may not go to any extremes.

The Mercruiser thunderbolt is shorter and squatter than even the Caprice's shortened TBI unit. It will fit good so long atlas I don't have to do too much to adapt.

She's not the prettiest girl in the world, and very basic, so she'll be fine out there. No need to beat her up any.
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KAHUNA01




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Join date : 2013-10-08
Age : 61
Location : MONTREAL

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PostSubject: Re: Options for good handling in all-road situations?   Options for good handling in all-road situations? Icon_minitimeThu Oct 16, 2014 2:21 pm

Man does this sound exciting or what? I wish you lots of luck. Here are a few of my suggestions. I drive a 1996 roadmonster wagon 7 passanger. Up front are stock springs with suburban mono tube shocks from monroe 1993 2x4.rr end I used trailer cargo coil springs,coil over shocks or load levelers if you like. Tires lt2357515 yokohama geolander. It rides beautiful, handles like a dream.& passangers and the ride height stays above factory height, empty it just covers the upper edge of the rim. As for the skid plates I have measure from a 1996 blazer and the frt and middle plates should fit with a few mods, If you need part numbers let me know I can dig them out of my pile.
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Options for good handling in all-road situations? Empty
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