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 lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)

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Sprocket

Sprocket

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Location : Palm Beach County

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 30, 2020 11:56 am

FWIW when I parted my wreck, I took the fenders and radiator shroud off and pulled the engine, headers, and T-56 out in one piece, but then I wasn't putting the car back together either lol.

Maybe just removing the radiator and it's shroud, you can slide the whole shebang in one piece.
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booster



Posts : 113
Join date : 2020-04-21

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 30, 2020 1:06 pm

I couldn't see from the pics, but it was mentioned that motor mounts were put on.

What mounts did you use? Did you leave the lower piece in the car and replace just the upper half?
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

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Age : 72
Location : Largo, FL 33774

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 30, 2020 6:46 pm

The lower half is almost impossible to get out without removing the lower suspension arms. If yours are a little worn, you can place the engine in, and shoot windshield adhesive in the open areas of the lower mounts You do not want to put the urethane in without the engine in place, because the mounts may not be in the right place for the bolts when the urethane sets up. If you put the engine in place with uncured urethane, it will move it around, and you may squish some out of the mount.
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lamune

lamune

Posts : 767
Join date : 2014-05-09
Location : Seattle

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 30, 2020 7:52 pm

Sprocket I'd be inclined to pull the whole front clip off if I were to do this again. But then again there's a lot more stuff in the way in this car than say a 70 Chevelle. I have the A/C system completely out and the rad as well as the bumper. I should have plenty of working room to get it in, I hope.

I replaced the cheap Chinese ones I put in there with the much. much more expensive ACDelco Chinese ones. We'll see how these work out.

So to answer Booster and Fred - I changed the mounts that go on the frame. The first time I did that it was with the motor in the car and the suspension was still installed also. It's a piece of cake with the lower control arms out, but it can be done with them still installed. You just need swivel sockets, a bunch of different length extensions and a great deal of patience. There's a slot in the crossmember that gives you some access. A second person helping working topside with you underneath holding the other end fixed with a swivel socket would make it go way faster too. It's not impossible, and if I can manage to do it a competent mechanic with a really good complete set of tools could probably do it in minutes.

Taking notes the first time would probably have helped though. I got under there and I probably spent an hour or two trying to figure out how I managed to do it once before.

I did save the old ones though. I might urethane those for if I ever get around to building a second motor that has more serious torque.
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booster



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Join date : 2020-04-21

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 30, 2020 8:16 pm

lamune wrote:
Sprocket I'd be inclined to pull the whole front clip off if I were to do this again. But then again there's a lot more stuff in the way in this car than say a 70 Chevelle. I have the A/C system completely out and the rad as well as the bumper. I should have plenty of working room to get it in, I hope.

I replaced the cheap Chinese ones I put in there with the much. much more expensive ACDelco Chinese ones. We'll see how these work out.

So to answer Booster and Fred - I changed the mounts that go on the frame. The first time I did that it was with the motor in the car and the suspension was still installed also. It's a piece of cake with the lower control arms out, but it can be done with them still installed. You just need swivel sockets, a bunch of different length extensions and a great deal of patience. There's a slot in the crossmember that gives you some access. A second person helping working topside with you underneath holding the other end fixed with a swivel socket would make it go way faster too. It's not impossible, and if I can manage to do it a competent mechanic with a really good complete set of tools could probably do it in minutes.

Taking notes the first time would probably have helped though. I got under there and I probably spent an hour or two trying to figure out how I managed to do it once before.

I did save the old ones though. I might urethane those for if I ever get around to building a second motor that has more serious torque.

Thanks for the information. I am in the process of doing my entire drivetrain updates so engine and trans are out of the car, so I did pull the control arms and do the whole motor mount setup. I did get the urethane as I read a lot of places that the AC Delco mounts were no more reliable than the other Chinese ones and probably came from the same factory. The urethane ones totally fill the sheet metal upper section of the bolt in mount so can't "droop" like my OEM passenger side did. Engine was down nearly and inch on that side, it appears.

I do think there is a quick and easy thing you can do to the rubber mounts to reinforce them, though, now that I see them. The rubber is not bonded to anything like in many other mounts and only held by the recesses. They have a V shaped protrusion on each side which stays about 3/8-1/2" away from the top housing. I think a 1/2" thick piece of plastic or aluminum, with a bit of a groove the mate with the rubber V could be put on each side of the mount to stop the movement of the rubber out of place and limit travel under high loads. They probably could be driven in from the side if lubed up with some soapy water and would stay in place because of the closed ends on the ground out groove in them engaging the V of the rubber. When I did my mounts I took apart the old metal frames from the original mounts and used the bottom flat part as a bolt retainer. Welded the bolts to it and put the whole works up from inside the frame, arms out of course, and put a couple #10 flathead screws through it to hold it in place if the nuts are taken off. Never would need to ever take out the arms or go in underneath anymore.

I will be very interested to see how much vibration the urethane mounts transmit, as that is my only hesitation in using them. If I need to, I will just go in and drill some holes through them to soften them up a bit. It works well.
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Fred Kiehl

Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 30, 2020 9:26 pm

I have urethane mounts on my 454, and they transmit almost all of the vibrations to the body. My inside RV mirror shakes at idle. They do hold the engine nice an tight, so you do not get any abrasion on any of the wires or hoses.
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booster



Posts : 113
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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 30, 2020 9:44 pm

Fred Kiehl wrote:
I have urethane mounts on my 454, and they transmit almost all of the vibrations to the body. My inside RV mirror shakes at idle. They do hold the engine nice an tight, so you do not get any abrasion on any of the wires or hoses.

How much cam you got in the 454?
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lamune

lamune

Posts : 767
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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 30, 2020 10:47 pm

Fred, heh, that sounds pretty dramatic. So much for "Dynaride"? Very Happy

Looking at the AC Delco mounts next to the cheapo ones I got from Rock Auto - they look identical except the AC one had some minor cleanup work done at the ends of the metal bushing.

I like the idea of using the plate to hold bolts on from the other side!

The mount I put in did droop on the passenger side as well. Not a ton but definitely noticeable.

Tonight I got the motor off the cradle and onto the hoist.

lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Pxl_2013
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mtrhead79

mtrhead79

Posts : 1526
Join date : 2010-04-24
Age : 52
Location : phila. pa

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 30, 2020 11:34 pm

i always put mtr in or out with the trans connected saves alot of cursing from under the car. i use flr jack to help trans get the correct angle. then put headers in. i dont know what you are using for header bolts. i love stage 8 bolts. i always lay them out on mtr before install. usually need to file the locking washer to fit the header tubes and always mark where they go if i remove them again. once they are tight they stay tight. Have you used that leveler before. i got one and tried to put motor in with it but it was hitting the cowl and preventing it from getting in. might change if i would have tried different bolt locations on the motor. your progress looks great
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sherlock9c1



Posts : 2284
Join date : 2009-05-28
Location : Huntsville, AL

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 01, 2021 12:12 am

Yes, I had to ditch the leveler, but I didn't use intake manifold bolts either; I used the rear cylinder head holes as my lift points. I hope it works better for you than it did for me.
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lamune

lamune

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 01, 2021 5:39 pm

Thanks guys - so while lining this thing up it's clear that the grille is in the way. If I were to disconnect the gas struts on the hood, can you lift it higher without causing any damage to anything?
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Fix Until Broke



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Join date : 2019-04-05
Location : Southeast Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 01, 2021 6:13 pm

Yes - It can go ~vertical without damaging anything.
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lamune

lamune

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 01, 2021 8:35 pm

Thanks, that confirmation helps. John hopefully the leveler won't get in the way. I've got it chained to an intake manifold stud on the pass side which I think will clear the cowl.
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lamune

lamune

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 10, 2021 12:56 pm

So finally this happened yesterday. I now see the wisdom of removing/installing the engine and trans together.

If I recall the bracket that holds the wiring harness that goes behind the motor is held down with one of the top bellhousing bolts. Is that right?

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lamune

lamune

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 12, 2021 3:46 pm

I should make that question more clear. I looked in the FSM and can't find a routing diagram. What you're looking at is the driver side head, water steam pipe bolt visible. The harness that goes behind the motor seems to want to attach to the bellhousing bolt and stick straight up. I'm not sure if that's right, if the harness is supposed to lay flat on top of the trans case... but that's where it seems to want to be. I should have documented this way better.

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sherlock9c1



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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 13, 2021 10:11 pm

Yes, it's secured to the top left bellhousing bolt.  It is easy to get to with the catalytic converters off.

On the '96 Impala I'm currently working on, I'm really wishing I had put the accessory bracket and especially AC compressor on before putting it in the car. The rear bracket has too much slop to just blindly tighten the bolts; I ended up putting two washers between the block and the bracket, then snugging all three bolts down.  If you don't, you'll end up bending the compressor quite a bit while it's just sitting there, causing a premature case leak.
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lamune

lamune

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2021 12:08 am

Thanks Sherlock- I didn't want to get that wrong as I'm working from the back of the motor to the front. It just seems like it'll be easier to get all that stuff in the back done first while there's less stuff on the front and sides in the way.

Funny you mention the AC compressor. My plan there was to install the hose on the compressor, put the compressor on the bracket, and then install the bracket with it on it. Not sure if that'll work but that was what I was going to try.

So now I just need to remember if there was anything else that gets bolted to the back of that head except that one ground strap.

I used a Corvette oil pressure switch/gauge adapter thing (it's longer and has two holes) and I was quite happy to see that I could fit the sender for my VDO oil pressure gauge. So I can use that during break-in to monitor the pressure and then move the gauge inside when I'm ready.

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lamune

lamune

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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 17, 2021 5:07 pm

Mystery solved I think. I had the wiring harness bracket that's supposed to on the back of the head along with the ground strap installed at the bellhousing where another wiring harness bracket was supposed to be. Got that straightened out and now the connectors and plugs are sitting where they're supposed to. I found an old ad on ls1lt1 forums for a pull-out motor and trans with some pictures of the back which showed me what I did wrong. (Aside from failing to document things which are hard to see from the front, of course) Now that's resolved I can go ahead.

I think I might have another one of those back-of-head brackets that came off the Police Caprice motor I got, just possibly adding to my confusion.

Here's a snip for reference

lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Captur14

Edit: I'm still not sure what this thing came from. The orientation is different from the harness brackets on the back of the motor. Any ideas?

lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Captur12
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sherlock9c1



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PostSubject: Re: lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?)   lamune engine build (can engineer guy build a motor?) - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 19, 2021 10:51 am

Just bolt the AC compressor in first, by itself.  Tighten all three front bolts, then get the rear bracket all set. I ended up loosening the rear bracket bolts, shifting the bracket so it was at end of travel if the compressor was being pulled on by the belt, then shimmed between the bracket and the engine block. Then I tightened all the bolts. Attaching the lines to the back is easy. (For reference, this was with the heater hoses, AC lines and alternator removed. What I describe is not possible with all of this installed.)

NOTE BEFORE YOU INSTALL THE AC COMPRESSOR - replacement AC compressors have a shallower stud hole for the hoses than stock. I had to cut about 3/32 off the end of the original stud to get it to fully seat on the new compressor. The lines will take some standoff but not much, otherwise you'll have a pressure leak that no amount of tightening will fix. Definitely fit this in BEFORE you install the compressor.  Thanks to sprocket for this tidbit.
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