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 Rust SUCKS

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KCClark
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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat Aug 05, 2023 10:37 am

Well, I knew I had some rust issues with the wagon, shortly after I got the car. Most of the rust was in the roof, and I put some patches on them until I had time to address the problems. I noticed water and rusty flakes in the rear by the tailgate, and what I found blew my mind.
Rust SUCKS Img_1515
Rust SUCKS Img_1516
this was what I found originally
Rust SUCKS Img_0411
this is what I found now
Not sure what I'm going to do to fix this. Probably cut out as much as I can and replace it with new metal.
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Rev Bob




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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat Aug 05, 2023 1:12 pm

Bummer! Been eating away for some time.
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat Aug 05, 2023 9:50 pm

Florida, where the cars rot from the roof down. I hate the poorly designed and sealed roof racks on these cars. They fill with sand and debris and stay wet. Living in the salt air doesn't help either. Most every wagon I have seen in a junk yard or parted out myself has had the same rot issues.

That will be a MAJOR undertaking. There are a LOT of different panels back there. Once the holes start to appear the damage has spread out a lot. Rust will come right back if even a tiny spot is left behind.

I wish you good luck.

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Danr63

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 4:50 am

My old wagon (one in avatar) we owned since new.that car was a midwest driven car and after 26 years and 345,000 miles it was laid to rest looking like a whiffle ball! I liked to call it "cross flow ventilation" sounds better than "rusted to peices". I would inspect the frame on your car very thoroughly before spending any money on the body. That is what finished mine off. The frame rails and body frame mount substructure on the body were so bad that the body collapsed onto the frame. At this point the body was not attached to the frame at all. Hopefully yours is not that bad. Good luck!

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Serendipity96

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 12:03 pm

sadly 94 woody's comment 'florida, where the cars rust from the roof down' is accurate for many a sunshine wagon. That is what i dealt with with my 96 (avatar). bought in 12, retired in 18. Bought with a 'minor' spot by windshield that was not showing - I hadn't learned the rule to NEVER get a car with any signs of rust around the windshield.

Late 17 had a major windshield crack - that's when i found out how expensive it would be to fix the minor rust issues around the windshield.
Some people would say my car was 'mostly rust free' with just a tiny barely-noticeable-cuz-it-was-painted-over windshield spot, even smaller one by vista window, and areas around the upper rear glass - No where near as bad as yours.

I ended up using a dremel to try cleaning up the rusty spots on the rear hatch frame and windsheild and vista - that's when i found out how thin the steel is and made several small 'ventilation holes'
I decided to use some yankee ingenuity and used some of that metallic weather sealing caulk.
Think it was this stuff or similar https://amzn.to/3ORwbkT

Anyway, after i had gotten all the rust off i filled the holes with that caulk and painted over it - that ended up stopping the advancement on the roof and rear hatch area till the car was sent to the yard. Didn't properly fix things but stopped the rust from spreading pretty well.

A year or two before the engine imploded I had gone to see how much the bodywork/repaint was going to cost and decided then and there that my wagon was going to just be driven and enjoyed until it couldn't. At the time, these cars hadn't started going up crazy in value to justify a restoration.
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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 12:11 pm

I like that the sealant you mentioned is UV resistant but I don't think it will fix the problem I have. Is it paintable? That might be a good alternative to the seam sealant in the roof channels.
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Serendipity96

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 12:21 pm

yup - it took paint just fine - i just used spraycan paint.
None of the rust spots when i took the dremel to them had by appearances not gone through so i thought it was just 'surface rust' like a used car salesman would tell you. but I wanted to get it down to bare metal with no pin spots of rust showing - which is when i started burning right through and made holes. So i just committed to figuring what to use to fill the holes.

I also used some rust inhibitor - it was something like por15, then sprayed some primer, then filled it with the caulk - bigger holes i did in stages and built it up, then when that dried, i painted it white.

I hate driving my wagon now over to the east coast as my family lives right down the street from the beach and it has to sit in the driveway getting a nightly salt bath so i rinse it daily when i'm there and then wash it when i get home.
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KCClark




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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeMon Aug 14, 2023 3:57 pm

As someone who grew up in northwest Ohio and lived a short time in northeast Ohio, I hate rust. Spent way too much of my life fighting it. If I'm buying a used car, I travel the necessary miles to get a rust-free vehicle. If you have the skills/tools to cut out the rust, fabricate new pieces, and weld them in, go for it but trying to save a rusty vehicle any other way is a losing proposition.

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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat Aug 19, 2023 10:15 am

Lived in SW Pa so I know what your saying. Funny how northern cars rot from the ground up, and southern cars rot from the top down. I don't have professional body skills, but have done plenty of work on rusty cars, and since I'm not planning to sell my car I will just fix it.
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat Aug 19, 2023 3:43 pm

Very noble decision to "fix" it. I would scrap it and start over but the OCC is the hardest to find. Your rust involves 6 or more separate and unobtainable panels that will require fabrication or taking from another car. Huge amount of money if you need a body shop to do it.

Never say never though. I wish you luck and look forward to seeing the finished project.

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booster




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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat Aug 19, 2023 4:46 pm

94Woody wrote:
Very noble decision to "fix" it. I would scrap it and start over but the OCC is the hardest to find. Your rust involves 6 or more separate and unobtainable panels that will require fabrication or taking from another car. Huge amount of money if you need a body shop to do it.

Never say never though. I wish you luck and look forward to seeing the finished project.

Yep never say never, but there is a lot of places to address and pix look to be right at the window frame and those really tough to make yourself if you need to, unless you are a very experienced panel beater with all the right tools.

There was a guy on Utube who was redoing a very rusty panel truck in the UK and that guy was a wizard at making panels and patches. Stunning to se the results.
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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun Aug 20, 2023 4:26 am

94Woody wrote:
Very noble decision to "fix" it. I would scrap it and start over but the OCC is the hardest to find. Your rust involves 6 or more separate and unobtainable panels that will require fabrication or taking from another car. Huge amount of money if you need a body shop to do it.

Never say never though. I wish you luck and look forward to seeing the finished project.

Trust me, I've had a couple vehicles where I've added more metal to them than I bought them with, (jk, but it seemed like it) so this is not going to deter me. I was looking at the outside of the area, and thought the metal around the trunk of a car is similar to the metal around the rear glass on the wagon. I will need to get some measurements and take my arse to the jy and see if I'm right.
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun Aug 20, 2023 12:23 pm

Most cars in the junkyard are in even worse shape. Last wagon I saw was rotting in half. What ones sees is normally only half of the damage.

Metal is not the same. Sedans have a lip that turns 90* in order for the rubber seals to be installed while the wagon is flat.

That area on the wagon is made of a panel for the d pillar (Inner and Outer) the main roof panel plus that panel that holds the glass. Another support panel under that. Roof support cross panel on the under side. Plus some other small panels. Everything is spot welded in various places with just a little bit of it has seam sealer in random which is why rust is such a problem on these cars. These cars weren't built with the intentions of still being on the road 30 years later.

I should have took more pictures when I cut up John's old wagon.
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silverfox103
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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun Aug 20, 2023 12:49 pm

94Woody wrote:
I would scrap it and start over but the OCC is the hardest to find. Your rust involves 6 or more separate and unobtainable panels that will require fabrication or taking from another car. Huge amount of money if you need a body shop to do it

Hate to pile on, but Woody is 100% correct.  That orangey / red rust is, as they say, terminal.  I would be stunned is there is not more rust hidden away in the spare tire wheels, rear wheel wells, rear floor and the list goes on.

I would not put one penny in that car, you'll be sorry.  It's just not going to get any better.  I would try to sell it as is and get rid of it.  There are tradesmen out there, that probably could use it.  Or as others have suggested, junk it.  Parting it out is a pain in the rear.  A year later you'll still have a rusting hulk sitting in the backyard.

Good Luck

Tom


Last edited by silverfox103 on Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:37 am; edited 2 times in total

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AMH_92




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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun Aug 20, 2023 2:53 pm

I've fixed plenty of rust too and that is a little overwhelming, but where there's a will there's a way.
What condition is the car in otherwise?  You may be better off buying a clean body from out west and moving everything over to that. Sell yours to the boneyard for scrap when it is all picked out, throw the old parts in it. I see them asking 2-3 k for tired Custom Cruisers, even the rarer gold ones out there, some even cheaper, add on transport and you may be able to pick one up for 3k more or less all in. As long as the body and frame are clean and straight the rest doesn't matter if you have the good pieces-parts to replace them and can do it.
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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeMon Aug 21, 2023 9:23 am

I know the car trunk lip is not a 100% match for the wagon window lip but if it is similar enough, I can make it work. I'm not expecting the underside to match I'm only concerned with the upper lip. The inside metal of the wagon can be replaced with any metal as the headliner will cover it. Woody, the lips are similar enough with both having a channel to direct water away, it's just a matter of if I can find something roughly the same width.

Rust SUCKS Trunk10
Rust SUCKS Img_1517
Just a sample pic, to show similarity

As far as the wheel wells and floor they are in good shape. Also considering Florida has no inspection I don't have to worry about not being able to use the car.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeMon Aug 21, 2023 12:34 pm

Cut a patch panel from a junkyard car.
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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat Dec 16, 2023 3:03 pm

Well the fun just keeps on coming. was washing the car last week and noticed the door side trim was loose, and I found out why.
Rust SUCKS A410

Decided to pull all the trim off just to make sure there were no other surprises, but of course there were.
Rust SUCKS A510
Rust SUCKS A310
Rust SUCKS A210
Rust SUCKS A110

Guess I shouldn't be surprised at this point.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat Dec 16, 2023 6:05 pm

What are we seeing on the passenger' s side quarter panel?
I may have the braces for the doors.
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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun Dec 17, 2023 3:47 pm

Ya, it's hard to see in the pics, there is a nice dent in the rear quarter panel, at the bumper, and above the wheel, and some small creases in the rear door that were behind the molding. Nothing major compared to the rust issues, but still a pita.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun Dec 17, 2023 4:03 pm

PDR can probably fix the dents. The rusty braces can be replaced.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2023 8:47 pm

I have the bottom attachment strips for the front and back doors (one side). $50 plus shipping for both.
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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeMon Apr 29, 2024 8:56 am

My car is so thoughtful, she signed me up for the rust spot of the month club, ( it's the gift that keeps on giving the whole year round, Clark). Was working to get the A/C working again and pulled the carpet back to remove the evaporator, and guess what I found.

Rust SUCKS Floor210
Rust SUCKS Floor310

I put some tin and roof caulk on it for now, until I can get some steel to fix it right.
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeMon Apr 29, 2024 9:02 pm

That one isn't good and deserves some serious inspection. One of the major body supports is in that area and if it's compromised it will require more than "some steel" to take care of. I respect your determination/dedication car would be already be hacked into pieces if it were mine.

Here in Ocala someone is selling a complete 93 Caprice wagon for 800 bucks. May be a good source of patch panels for your Oldsmobile.
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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeThu May 02, 2024 8:36 am

Can you give me some more info on the Chevy, it's worth a look.
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booster




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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeThu May 02, 2024 10:00 am

I have no idea of how many parts of the bodies would be different, but if the Chevy is clean it might be easier to do a full rebody and do whatever it takes to make Chevy match you model. You would have all the necessary sections to do that in you existing wagon. Moving sections into no rusty areas of the clean body probably is a lot easier than trying to fab, and stop, the rust you are dealing with, plus you get a clean frame if you want.
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat May 04, 2024 5:31 pm

Caprice doesn't have the vista glass on the roof or the pegs to mount the OCC cladding. Other than that they are the same.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat May 04, 2024 5:50 pm

The 91 OCC has the same quarter glass as the RM, and the 92 has the same glass as the Caprice. The OCC has mounting holes with grommets to mount the cladding. No vista glass on the Caprice. The Caprice has manual AC, and most of the OCCs have electronic AC. The 91 and 92 wiring harnesses are different. Most OCCs have more extensive options and that is reflected in the wiring harnesses as well.
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun May 05, 2024 11:49 am

The Caprice for sale here is a 1993. Only two pictures that don't show much except the car is surrounded by junk. Does have a big mirror door swap so someone was smart.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/277544075448110/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A01c99e29-ecdd-47b7-88f8-712b8cf239bd
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun May 05, 2024 12:44 pm

That looks like a $300 car to me.

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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun May 05, 2024 1:01 pm

Thanks Woody, I did eventually find it, took a little searching, not much to go on with the pic.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun May 05, 2024 1:15 pm

If you buy the Caprice, I have a friend who needs a tailgate.
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeWed May 08, 2024 5:39 pm

Buickman1 wrote:
Thanks Woody, I did eventually find it, took a little searching, not much to go on with the pic.  

Definitely lacking in the picture department. Funny how lazy people can be when it comes to asking you to give them money for something. Good example, I like the mid 70s ElCamino/Sprint because I spent my early days in my parents 1974 GMC Sprint. Would stand in the cargo area behind the seats or in the bed because, 1980s, lol. Found a 73 El on marketplace. Says it’s in great shape, 2500. The one picture in the ad is a photo of an old photo of an El Camino, SMH.
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeWed May 08, 2024 5:40 pm

Fred Kiehl wrote:
If you buy the Caprice, I have a friend who needs a tailgate.

Adam here in Ocala has a wagon tail gate for sale.
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeWed May 08, 2024 6:03 pm

How much and condition
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Buickman1

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2024 9:55 am

Fred, you will have to try with Adam, I messaged the seller 3 times during the week, and got no response.
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeFri May 24, 2024 8:31 am

Fred Kiehl wrote:
How much and condition

$100
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Fred Kiehl

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeFri May 24, 2024 8:47 am

Any dents?
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Rust SUCKS   Rust SUCKS Icon_minitimeSat May 25, 2024 3:53 pm

Found a picture in his for sale ad on FB and it looks like there may be one. It is one of the many parts floating around the state from one of the many wagons once owned by John that has been hacked up for parts. Grimace in this case.
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