Turning Radius?

So a topic came up on another automotive forum I'm a part of about turning radii for various vehicles, and it made me think. I never, EVER have had a problem turning my wagon in any situation I've ever needed to. Anybody know exactly what the turning radius is of our beasts? Does it change by year? I've got a '92. Are the '94-96 cars any different?

Random question for the day.

Don't know the stat, but I was driving a Saturn Vue the other day, and it had a turning radius much greater than our cars. I was thinking "Is this thing ever going to make it all the way around?"

Everbodies turning radius will be very simliar and the only thing that really has any great effect on it is the front
wheel offset.It will be different and narrower with the cop wagons and the Impala SS because they supposedly
have a steering box with fewer turns lock to lock.
I just spoke to one of the ebay companies that sell a rebuilt steering box for our wagons and thats what he told
me anyhow.
Take Care
Jim Gordon

Jim, that information is bogus. The turning radius is dictated by how far you can physically turn the front wheels, and by the wheelbase of the car.

The nice thing about LT1 B-body wagons is that there's a pedal that shortens the radius when you press it while turning. My son likes that pedal.

Hey Sherlock I am quite familiar with stomping your gas pedal to abruptly shorten your turning radius.If the road is
wet enough I can still do it with my gutless TBI wagon.Figure I would get the guttless comment in before Nick gets
the chance.
I am hoping one of the big suspension companies will come out with a Rack&Pinion conversion kit for our wagons
cause they already have them for Camaros,Chevelles and Tri5 chevies.I dont think it will affect our turning radius
but it sure will make our steering imput and feedback more inline with todays cars.Probably going to cost a bunch
but after driving my fathers Windstar a lot I dreaded going back to the wagon and its 1950s style steering feel.Even
the newer Crown Vic he just got steers way better than our wagons.
Take Care
Jim Gordon

There is evidence of me "shortening" my turning radius all over Jacksonville, if you know what I mean.

The famous wheel rub against the frame at a full turn on the B-bodies affects our turning radius I'm sure.

95BRMW wrote:

The famous wheel rub against the frame at a full turn on the B-bodies affects our turning radius I'm sure.

You can fix that by running smaller tires and wheels.

Flasheroo wrote:

I am hoping one of the big suspension companies will come out with a Rack&Pinion conversion kit for our wagons cause they already have them for Camaros,Chevelles and Tri5 chevies.I dont think it will affect our turning radius but it sure will make our steering imput and feedback more inline with todays cars.Probably going to cost a bunch but after driving my fathers Windstar a lot I dreaded going back to the wagon and its 1950s style steering feel.Even the newer Crown Vic he just got steers way better than our wagons.

It's been looked at multiple times. The ballpark figure is $1000-2000. It's not a simple conversion. Read more here.

That said, the fact is that these cars are old and recirculating ball steering has lots of parts that get worn over time. It's cheaper than a rack and pinion conversion.

1. Check all of your balljoints for any looseness, and replace as needed.
2. Check all tie rod ends.
3. Replace the idler arm. Don't bother with the Moog "problem solver" that so many hyped about. Those who will give you an honest answer will tell you that it doesn't hold up much longer than a cheaper one and the warranty is lifetime on both if you shop around.
4. Replace the center link. Roadmaster center links are expensive but they should be considered a maintenance item. If you remove the steering damper, you can use a Caprice/Impala one that's much cheaper.

Also:
5. Repack and retorque your front wheel bearings. This should be done every 30k anyway.
6. Grease all front suspension parts every 3000 miles. This will make them last much longer.

My wife drives a '99 Chrysler minivan. It had a zillion miles on it when we got it. I replaced the entire front suspension (struts, tie rod ends, swaybar bushings [problem area on those cars]) and then had it aligned, and the thing drives like it's brand new. Best $600 I ever spent. Fixing a B-body front end is even cheaper. I rebuilt my entire front suspension on the 9C1 a few years back and it drives like a brand new car.

Maintenance is cheaper than a conversion.

I'll agree with Joel here. I've had a front end rebuild on two of my cars, my Fleetwood and my current 'beater' a 92 Cruiser. Makes a HUGE difference in how the car drives rides and handles.

I want to do a front-end rebuild in the Spring - but I KNOW I wouldn't be able to tackle it alone. I have nowhere near enough knowledge. It would probably cost me a fortune for a shop to do it.

You can do everything but the control arm bushings yourself with basic tools. I did the control arm bushings on my 9C1 using a ball joint press kit from Autozone and it was the worst part of the whole job. Frankly, I'm suspicious how much the control arm bushings really make a difference.

Honestly, the hardest parts are the balljoints and the control arm bushings. The rest of the steering (tierods, center link, idler arm) are easy and can be assembled on the bench before you put them on the car.

My '94 RM wagon has pretty loose steering. My plan is to replace the center link, then adjust the steering box, then replace the tie rods if need be.

Hey Sherlock,I use to do front end alighments at Goodyear many many years ago and I remember these front ends
well.We would get year old cars with under 25000 miles and the idler arm would be shot.It got so bad that we
had a package alignment deal with a new idler arm installed advertised on the shop service chart.This was back
in the late 70s and the cars suspension parts were junk even the factory stuff.
I agree that rebuilding is always cheaper,its just that the car would drive so much better on todays roads with a
rack and pinion setup and it would also help with the handling and braking too.You are right about the control arm
bushings being a hard job to replace even with air tools and a huge vise.
Hey Sting you better learn how to secure/capture the coil spring before you do anything else cause that sucker
can kill you quick or if you are lucky just break your arm!
I guess I can still wish!
Take Care
Jim Gordon aka Flasheroo

Well apparently my idler arm is bent, and my pitman arm needs to be replaced. I know NOTHING about suspension - I wouldn't even be able to point those parts out to you if you told me to.

So I'm pretty scared of wandering into uncharted waters like that.

Stingroo wrote:

Well apparently my idler arm is bent, and my pitman arm needs to be replaced. I know NOTHING about suspension - I wouldn't even be able to point those parts out to you if you told me to.

So I'm pretty scared of wandering into uncharted waters like that.

Time to learn or fork out buckarooskies! Parts for the rebuild are about 300 range. to have it done by a shop probably about 800 including parts. If you find some one who will do it for about 500 with parts lemmie know I got some bizness for him!!

I have one full kit ready to go on one of mine and all the others need it too....there is usually a group purchase on ISSF every 6 months or so so that can save you $$ on the parts.

Sprocket - up for a Spring Break project (or two... or three...?) lol

Shoot, I'll do it for $500!!!!!

And I have the tools to do it in my driveway



I can get spare control arms from the JY and have the new bushings pressed before you get here, then just R&R. Shouldn't take too much time.

Krzdimond wrote:

Shoot, I'll do it for $500!!!!!

This, my friends, is a good deal. I even know the guy.

You're not that far from me either.... Hmmm. Maybe I'll be traveling North, and THEN South for Spring Break. <_<

Krzdimond wrote:

Shoot, I'll do it for $500!!!!!

And I have the tools to do it in my driveway



I can get spare control arms from the JY and have the new bushings pressed before you get here, then just R&R. Shouldn't take too much time.

Careful what you wish for

hmm sounds like someone's going to be busy

Sprocket wrote:

Careful what you wish for

I look at it as a training exercise.

Lessons learned from his car can be applied to mine

Hmm... guinea pig eh?

Stingroo wrote:

Hmm... guinea pig eh?

Did I say that out loud?? J/K I have already done this to my wagon (save for the control arm bushings)

Autozone has the parts (with lifetime warranty) for around $250 without the steering stabilizer and about $350 with.

4 lower control arm bushings
4 upper control arm bushings
2 inner tie rods
2 outer tie rods
center link
idler arm
2 tie rod sleeves
2 upper ball joints
2 lower ball joints


anything I am missing?

I'd cross check all of those prices with Advance (since I get 20% off anything I buy there).

When I got my tires they provided a "22-point" inspection, and it mentioned recommending replacement of my idler arm and pitman arm. I can't find a part number for a pitman arm for the car? Was the guy crazy, or am I?

Hey Ray the most critical thing to remember about any front suspension work is to always get
your front end aligned.I mean immeidiately after the work is done.Usually the alignment will be
out quite a bit and this is when you can do serious damage to your tires.If you drive that way
too long your tires will wear badly and even after the alignment is done your tires will continue
to wear at a much faster pace.
A good alignment will do wonders for your car and your driving enjoyment.
Enough Said
Take Care
Jim Gordon aka Flasheroo

Pitman arms generally don't go out.

www.gmpartsdirect.com has it for around $72

Apparently, mine is bent (so says the tech) but I don't know. lol

Okay, all the parts you listed from Advance together total to about $285 my price selecting all parts with lifetime warranties.

Here's the deal with alignments... If it is good now, then measure (in MM) and make damn sure the numbers match from the old setup to the new setup. You should still get it checked, but it will be "close enough" to get home.

Yeah. Dad has a friend at home that has his own shop that has an alignment rack. He buys salvage trucks and resells them for a living, and makes a killing with some of the crap he finds at auctions too.

sherlock9c1 wrote:

... Don't bother with the Moog "problem solver" that so many hyped about. Those who will give you an honest answer will tell you that it doesn't hold up much longer than a cheaper one and the warranty is lifetime on both if you shop around...

Just an FYI. Moog has supposedly quit making parts here in the states. China now. I've been buying Raybestos front end parts from Rockauto lately, since I heard that they took over the Spicer parts operation. Some of the parts come in Spicer boxes; others in Raybestos boxes. They all have: "made in USA" cast into them. I'm betting that they are superior parts. - Jim

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img195/7003/spicer.jpg

I'll tell ya my 91 OCC wagon has a tighter turning radius than my 94 Impala SS ever did. I know the wheels make the difference. And the stops.