To supercharged 3800, or not to supercharged 3800? Need halp.

Gents,

Here's the dilemma/situation. It's well past time to replace my fair maidens daily beater Alero. At this time of high gas prices, it only makes sense to try doing so with something that seats all 6 of us and isn't called a Suburban. We have one of those. We love it and it's a great truck, but it's also a drunk.

So to find a car thats in the $3,500 ish field, is FWD, seats 6, and flirts with upper 20's MPG - I think it's fairly unanimous that we need something GM with a 3800. This leaves us with a couple options:

1. Bench seat Bonnie
2. Olds 88 - maybe a bench seat LSS if there is such a thing
3. Buick Park Avenue
4. FYI - most of the LeSabres around here are cancerous bombs, and I'm not a big fan.

Factoring in that she's mentioned that she really does like leather, and sometimes drives 200 miles in a single day for her job - this really has me leaning to trying to get us into option #3 - a Buick Park Avenue.

So in narrowing down Park Avenues, we obviously want to get as much bang for our bucks - and the top line one is the ULTRA. All Park Ave's are bench seaters, and all Ultras are leather. Since Ultras were more money, most seem to have been owned by fairly well off, maintenance conscious geezers, but the other thing is that all Ultras also came supercharged.

Now, this is where I need help. By the time most of these cars fall into our price range, they have about 130k miles on them at least - some up to 180k. I'd like to know if there is a time-bomb mileage factor with these superchargers or the motors they are on. I know that a NA regular series 2 3800's will go forever, but I'm fairly ignorant regarding the supercharged models.

Is it also true that the demand the premium octane fuel? This could be a deal breaker.

Are there any significant 3800 engine model year differences that I should be aware of when shopping?

I'd really appreciate any input you guys can give because I need this to be as solid of a buy as possible. The last thing we can afford is to buy something, only to have the motor Crovo on us. (for the noobs - that means to grenade within a month of purchase)(It also means to paint your entire car with spray paint)(it also means to paint something Satin Black)


As an aside - I was pretty proud of Adria tonight. She stopped and looked at a 95 bonnie tonight all by herself. When I asked her about it, she told me everything about the car except for how it drove. So I naturally asked if she'd driven it and we had the following conversaiton.

Well - glad you liked it, but how'd it drive?
I didn't drive it.
Why?
I didn't need to.
Why not?
Because I knew I wasn't going to buy the car. When I popped the hood and checked the coolant resevoir, it looked muddy in there. I know some coolant is orange-ish, but this was like MUD colored, and even appeared to have some gritty looking crap in it. So I thanked the guy for his time and told him that we've fixed or blown enough head gaskets for me to know to look in the coolant and that is isn't supposed to look like a bunch of undissolved stop leak, sand, or mud in there. He tried to tell me that the main thing was to be sure the oil didn't smell like coolant - but I'd seen enough and I sure as heck wasn't going to smell the oil - so I didn't drive it.

So I was all - and thought it was definitely shareworthy!

Thanks for the 3800 help guys. I really do appreciate it.

John & Fam.

Also, don't say minivan. I'm a hater. I wouldn't care if I found one for free that got 40mpg and had mechanical lips on the drivers seat to greet me with a great big ass kiss every time I drove it. I wouldn't want it. Ever.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take it for just long enough to swap the seat into something else, but you'd never see me behind the wheel of the minivan it came from.

the motor's are the same charged to n/a , I recently sold my 2001 Grand Prix that was supercharged the motor had 197,xxx on it and those were very very hard miles. I got it with 64,xxx and then modded it (cam, Intercooler, headers,and bigger supercharger) the motor ran like a champ , I can't say the same for the trans. Yes they require Premium fuel thats one of the reasons I sold my car along with the constant trans failure. I live close to the BEST 3800 tuner in the country he had my car running 12.60 @110 in the 1/4 and still getting 30+mpg on the highway.They are great motors but the trans is garbage. I hope my ramblings have helped you

we had a 97 Grand Prix GTP with a supercharged 3800 from 140K to 199K, no problems with anything, always ran regular gas. Got about 25 highway, and that was with a very heavy foot.

What year range are you looking at John? feel free to give me a call today, I've had a lot of 3800 cars, and know a little bit about them.

ChevyChugg wrote:

always ran regular gas.

Running regular gas will cause Supercharged cars to Knock too much knock and you will chip a piston. I have see too many people chip pistons. If you choose to buy a L67 car ask the owners on what fuel they used. I read your comment on not popping a motor that will cause motor failure. There has to be a reason the manufacture says run Premium fuel and not reg They set up the car to run boost and the Premium will keep the car running like it was designed www.clubgp.com http://www.grandprixforums.net/ there are a few of the sites that are for 3800 cars Those sites are now getting full of idiots but if you look there are good articles and tech info still.


P.S. if you want to run regular fuel pull off the supercharger belt

This was the car I had two cars ago. I loved the way it looked in an out, and it had the SC3800. Sadly it kept giving me electrical issues and then I lost the transmission. The car had very low miles, but had been neglected before I got it, so I can't blame the car too much.

If you can find a clean and maintained Ultra, I bet you'd like it.













-Mike

81X11 wrote:

-Mike

Nice clean car, what yr? thats a series 1 3800 I would stay away from that motor also the supercharge is the baby Eaton M62, the series 2 3800 has the Gen 3 Eaton M90


series 2 are on the 97 newer cars

I'm also a fan of 92-99 Bonnevilles, I've personally had two, and found and refurbished two other ones for friends. I don't however like the Bonny's with bennch seats, and kind doubt you could find an SC Bonny with a bench. The sporty ones had buckets. Ditto the Olds LSS, but you could get an SC engine in an 98 Regency the first few years...but those tend to be....grandmotherly...

Here's the last Bonny I fixed up for a friend. These are just nice cars.

Some typical cars:

http://houston.craigslist.org/ctd/2392806795.html - 97 LSS


http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/2391206856.html - Park Ave. This needs a new ECM, I'd bet money on it. My car had the same staalling problem. It would just die with no warning..on the highway, at a light, and I researched and fould out many of these had ECM issues. I replaced it and that fixed the stalling issue. $100 from AutoZone

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/2342141851.html - 96 Ultra

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/cto/2388381308.html - 95 SSE

The L67 cars require 91 Oct. It`s a non issue to me as the 91 Oct available locally has no ethanol whereas the 87 has up 10%. The added mileage offsets the higher initial cost.

I would look for a series 2 SC 3800. If you want to be a cheap asshole, and let's face it we all know you do, try to find a car for sale with a broken supercharger coupler. Most people think the supercharger needs a rebuild costing several thousand dollars, when in fact it`s a $30 piece that takes an hour to change. It will basically sound like there are marbles rattling around in the supercharger. People are usually willing to dump the car for whatever they can get at that point.

The earlier rivieras (97 and below) were available with a bench seat though it is uncommon.

On the G/H-platform cars, ensure you check the subframe. They can accumulate water and rust.

Crovo laughed at the Crovo jokes.

Way to Go, FMA!!!!! Tell that dude to take his blown head gaskets and shuvvit!

And how are you gonna fit your whole family in a sedan? Like... Seriously? Is there room?

toomanytoyz wrote:

And how are you gonna fit your whole family in a sedan? Like... Seriously? Is there room?

+2, you need a minivan John. 6 people in a 6 seat sedan, and little fender bender could be bad. I hated minivans too, but 18-20 mpg combined city/highway on my '04 Chevy Venture with 150,000 miles, with the 3400 v-6, and a lot more room than my Park Ave. I've warming up to it now.

Ok, no minivan.... It's got to be the Park or an Olds 98. In my opinion go '95 or older n/a 3800, skip the Dex-cool and the obd2, easier and cheaper to work on your self. S/C cars do require 91 or higher octane, you can run regular, but the ecm pulls the timing out out of the car, leaving you with no power and bad mileage.

Look for a Park with the Grand Touring suspension, great riding cars.

Mike

Don't you own, like... a wagon?

Bad link or something Crovo,

https://www.youtube.com/embed/McXRlXT0aIY

Falls short of John's mpg goal I'm sure, but that van is cool. ... I want one.

My Park Avy was a 95 model. Sometimes and miss it....and then I remember the Check Engine, Traction Control, and Anti-Lock idiot lights that came on and off for no reason...and I miss it less.

It did ride well, and was really pretty in and out. The Series I 3800's don't tend to have an many coolant issues as the Series 2 did, but the Series 2 are a lot faster.

OK then, so despite the extra power, it looks like the smarter answer is to not. Not sure I want one as old as the gen 1's, but I appreciate the perspective.

I hear you too MikeOZ, but this wouldn't be our DAILY 6 seater. This would be Adria's daily driver - that would double as a 6 seater OPTION instead of the Burb.

Also, yea we'd all fit in it.

i,m not a mini van fan,. BUT,. the 98-2000 town and country vans are decent value for money,. heated leather seats are nice in our climate,. the 3.8 cruises at 85 mpg effortlessly, get 25mpg most of the time,.ours cost 1250 on the road with 4 brand new winter tires and rims,.

Nick

If you MUST do a minivan, the 97-05 Pontiac Montana was a nice one. Sister-in-law had one, and it was the higher-end one, white with the grey lower body cladding, mag wheels, leather, rear a/c, and steering wheel radio controls. 3.4 V6 has good power...nice van in general, like driving a tall Grand Prix.

But a Bonny is a lot more fun!

Spaceship Van FTW!!! most have 3800's

there are soooo many 3.4 motored vehicles for sale around these parts,.
they don't last,..

nick

Really? I wonder if the cold gets them. 3400 is a well-regarded engine down here. My sister-in-law's Montana had nearly 200K miles on it when they traded it in, and was still running fine. I "think" that's the engine in a friend's Grand Am too, and while that car is ugly, the engine has been good.

Hmmm.

My neighbor has a 93 Ultra and I drool over it daily but it needs a new tranny as well so if i bought one I would drop in the beefiest tranny I could find and be done with it. Plus if you do have to run on premium you will still be saving money over an suv or other large vehicle running normal gas

Mike, I think Nick meant that they're not for sale long - not that the car's don't last a long time.


Mr Cool Ice, We already have an SUV. This would work out for the times we're just on a weekend roadtrip up north to see family, etc, and could cut the fuel costs in half or more.

John, what years are you thinking about? If Mike's (81X11) '95 Park were for sale in my area it would bring high $4,000 easy. I sold my base model '94 Park for $3,800 4 years ago with 140,000 miles. $3,500 will get you a Park, but it will be an older model or a rusted pile. Parks and LeSabres were on the same basic platform in the mid '90s, the Parks are just a little longer, so they have the same rust issues, rockers, rear wheel wells, under the rear seat and the brake lines coming and going from the abs module. If your wife drives like a normal person, (unlike most of us) you will see 28-30 mpg highway with a Park, LeSabre, 88, 98, and/or Bonneville... super charged or n/a.

Mike

I snagged this for $400. Bumped in the RF, blew both bags and took out the windshield and bent a strut. Clean title.

145k, nice leather, Astroroof, loaded. Was a Craigslist come get it or it's going to the crusher deal.

This is pre-dexcool, rad is full of nice clean green coolant.

Look around, you'll find something good cheap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4t9qsHaIc4

I still think those are a pretty design. White was a really popular color too so you might get lucky in the salvage yards on a white fender and bumper. Real shame the bags blew.

Good luck with it!

-Mike

Even though SC 3800's run on premium, they are well worth the extra cost to fill up. I have driven both a N/A 97 Riviera, and obviously my SC Riv. The SC one gives you that extra punch you want to feel . I never drove a Park Ave, but have always been a fan of those cars. If a 2-door would work, the Riv is a nice comfortable car.