Olds Smog 307 to '71 Rocket 350 Engine Swap

Stingroo wrote:

Nice grass.






I kid, I kid.

That hurt....

I gave up.....

Cadet57 wrote:

Boy look at that Roadie sag

Jeez first my yard and now my wagon. OUCH!

I hope you don't drive with the tarp strapped onto the boat......

Sprocket wrote:

I hope you don't drive with the tarp strapped onto the boat......

Why?

Grass is over rated.

Ray I thought that grass was more of that pretty gravel Mike used on the side of his house.
Mike if you want that boat to come up on plane stop carrying the whole family aboard once
in a while!
Jim

Flasheroo wrote:

Ray I thought that grass was more of that pretty gravel Mike used on the side of his house.
Mike if you want that boat to come up on plane stop carrying the whole family aboard once
in a while!
Jim

Yeah Yeah Yeah......

Found a guy on Craigslist in Hutto, the next town over, that has a blown 83 307 with all the parts still on it. He basically wants it hauled off. I'm going to look at it Saturday, and hopefully will be able to get the larger harmonic balancer, all the pulley's and mounts of the front, and the exhaust manifolds off it for my 350.

Such a bummer GM changed the 307 design in '85. If my Cutlass had been an 84 or older everything would have swapped right over to the 350.

I fired it up the Cutty the other night....it had been sitting untouched under the carport for over a month, and I sprayed the dust off and after wiping it down climbed inside. Pumped the gas twice and she fired right up, a/c blowing cold, radio on and power antenna jumped to attention. Put it in gear and moved it a little to get the fluids moving. It never got hot enough to lose oil pressure...but it ran long enough to make me miss driving it.

I'm itching to get the Cutlass back on the road. Come on cooler weather!

-Mike

Are you done yet?

Ummm...well.... The Cutty is keeping the boat company under the carport....


The '71 350 is bagged up on the stand next to my work bench....


I still have to find 80-84 Olds 307 exhaust manifolds, along with a pre-85 harmonic balancer, and all the mounts for all the accessories on the front of the engine. When I've had funds...I've not had time to go yarding, and when I've had time, I'm broke. Fun stuff.

On the bright side the big yard in Houston is having a half-price weekend starting the Friday after Thanksgiving, and I'm planning to drive out for that and hopefully gather all the parts I needs for the swap.

At least I have a plan for the Cutlass....I feel bad for my ski-water-raft and motorcycle helmet stand on the other side of the garage......


-Mike

Why not headers? More HP, better mileage...

jayoldschool wrote:

Why not headers? More HP, better mileage...

It has to pass emissions one more year, so gotta keep it basically stock appearing. Can mod the exhaust from the cat-back, but not in front.

Besides money is really tight right now. With the salvage yards manifolds and accessory mounts, and some new gaskets and paint, I can swap everything else from the 307 over to the 350 and have the engine in and car running pretty quickly. After it's next inspection at the end of August it'll be emissions exempt (25 years old is the cutoff).

Stupid law. If I lived one county further from Austin I'd have no emissions and just have the "flash the lights and beep the horn" inspection. Only counties around the major cities in Texas have emissions regs. Boo.

Current plan is to get the car back to life and usable again, and then after next summer I can start doing some real mods.

-Mike

Ok so I've not updated this in a while....thought I'd share. Figure I'll get ribbed about this, but here we go.

The 307 is staying a bit longer. Because the car has to pass emissions one more time before it's exempt, and I don't want to hook all that smog crap to the 350, I'm replacing the oil pump, timing chain and gears on the 307. At least then I can get the car back on the road.

I'm told that GM used plastic in the timing gears on these 307s, and over time that breaks down, goes into the oil pan, and as the car runs clogs up the oil pump filter, which I'm thinking is what's wrong with my 307.

So this Thursday the Cutlass is going to my buddy Troung's shop. He's going to knock it out over the weekend, and with a little luck the car will be useable for the first time since last April.

So for now, the plan is to fix the 307, install cat-back dual 442-spec dual-exhaust as money allows this spring, and fix the rust spot on the door to get the body perfect again.

The car gets it's last emissions test (25yrs=exempt) in August, so next fall I'll be pulling the 307, the computer and also all the emissions stuff, and will do the 350 the RIGHT way. And I'll have a running 307 to sell....might get $200 for it. It does have under 100K on it still.

Will pass on when the car is on the road again. We do what we can!

-Mike

Get the goat on the road as a rat rod.I can almost already hear the Poncho guys screaming
Blasphemy!
Jim

Flasheroo wrote:

Get the goat on the road as a rat rod.I can almost already hear the Poncho guys screaming
Blasphemy!
Jim

That GTO needs EVERYTHING Jim. Looks better than it is in pics. Keep in mind it's rusted out around both the front and rear windows and there is a big hole in the floor under the driver's feet. I like the Flintstones as well as the next person but don't want to be in the show...ha!

I'm going to finish the Roady and Cutlass and then work on the Goat. For now it's safe and dry in the garage. Makes a great conversation piece!

-Mike

tell your pal to drop the 2nd to rear main while he's in there and see what it looks like,.and check rods 2+6,... bearing shells aren't too expensive,.
i really don;t know why you want to replace the oil pump,.it,s pumping and making pressure,. if you want more pressure,. put a washer under the bypass spring,. a new oil pump is a waste of money INMHO,.
If the timing gear has/had shredded it,s nylon,. you,d have chunks in the oil when you change it,
I had a big olds motor from the wreckers do this,. but it would lose oil pressure as soon as you raised the revs slightly hot or cold,.and it had zero nylon left on the timing gear, that stuff is brittle, once it gets compromised it all comes off in a hurry,..
have you actually checked oil pressure with a mechanical gauge?cold and hot?

Nick

phantom 309 wrote:

tell your pal to drop the 2nd to rear main while he's in there and see what it looks like,.and check rods 2+6,... bearing shells aren't too expensive,.
i really don;t know why you want to replace the oil pump,.it,s pumping and making pressure,. if you want more pressure,. put a washer under the bypass spring,. a new oil pump is a waste of money INMHO,.
If the timing gear has/had shredded it,s nylon,. you,d have chunks in the oil when you change it,
I had a big olds motor from the wreckers do this,. but it would lose oil pressure as soon as you raised the revs slightly hot or cold,.and it had zero nylon left on the timing gear, that stuff is brittle, once it gets compromised it all comes off in a hurry,..
have you actually checked oil pressure with a mechanical gauge?cold and hot?

Nick

Good idea Nick. No I've not checked the pressure with a mechanical gauge.

When cold the car has fine oil pressure...going by the dash gauge, but as it warms up the pressure drops on the gauge and after a bit it will go into the red and soon after you will start to hear a light tapping start . I've only heard it tap twice, and both times when I did, I shut it right off.

I'm really just trying to patch it together so I could drive it until next fall, when the car is emissions exempt. I'd like to do the 350 swap the right way. Lose the computer and smog junk, put on real exhaust...get all that garbage out from under the hood.

I've been starting it every few weeks and putting it in gear to keep the fluids moving, but it's been parked a long time now. It always starts right up and runs smooth and quiet....for about 3-5-mins...then the pressure goes away.

I read about quite a few owners of 307-powered Cadillacs over on the Caddy forum, and they all had the same issue, and it turned out to be plastic/nylon in the oil pan clogging up the oil pump screen after the cars ran a few minutes. Sounded just like what my car does. A few folks just replaced the chain and gears and cleaned the pan and oil screen out, and that fixed them. I just figured I'd do the pump as cheap insurance while the pan is off.

I know this is patching it, but Troung offered to do this really cheaply, so I figure it's worth a shot to get the car on the road again. I miss it and hate seeing it sitting there.

Such fun.

-Mike

The plot thickens...

Got a call from a man in San Antonio. He heard I was looking for 307 parts. He rents houses on the south (bad) side of town, and had a tenent skip out on him a few months ago.

So here's the deal, the tenent had a lowrider Cutlass that got hit hard in the back. He bought another Cutlass and looks like he was going to move all the lowrider parts from the wreck to the other car....but all he ended up doing was taking both cars apart and leaving all the pieces in the garage of this house when he skipped.

The guy that call me sounds like a good guy. He admitted he's an older guy and has no interest in all that stuff, and is basically looking to get the garage cleaned out.

He did verify that the lowrider is an '84 Cutlass and it's engine and transmission are sitting on the garage floor. He's going to send me pics later today.

So that might be all the parts I'm needing to do my 350 swap.....whoa! Merry Christmas.

He does not want to seperate parts. Wants $250 for the engine, trans, and all the other associated parts. I figure I can yank what I need and sell the engine and trans to make my money back. Plus I'm DYING to see what all kind of parts are sitting in this garage!

Sadly I'm going to Dallas this weekend and have to work next week, so the soonest I can get down there is the week after Christmas, but the guy said the parts are not going anywhere.

We shall see!!

-Mike

are you done yet?

buickestate wrote:

are you done yet?

Never!

81X11 wrote:

buickestate wrote:

are you done yet?

Never!

A truer word was never spoken.


Nick

Talking about those nylon coated timing gears reminds me of another genius idea from the late
70s and early 80s.I was into fast jap bikes and someone came up with a nylon front and rear
sprockets.Quiet as a shaft and no need to ever lube the chain.I personally thought this was a
dumb idea but a few members in the ICOA (International CBX Owners Assoc) had to try it out.
We had a member with a single turbo mounted to his CBX which had absolutely no power below
6000 grand and then bang,it was like a sledge hammer delivery.Actually felt very much like my 72
750 H2 kawasaki without the violent wheelstands.
We had a rally in Montebello Va and he was there with his turbo and nylon sprockets and when
we went out on the parkway he whacked it open.The chain actually ripped the nylon teeth off
the rear sprocket and shot them out the back of the bike.These little teeth struck another rider and peppered him in his chest and neck.He fortunately was wearing a full face helmet and leathers but he still had some nasty welts on his neck and the backs of both hands and fingers.
Those sprocket packages ceased to exist even though they worked well on low powered bikes.
Jim

Flasheroo wrote:

Talking about those nylon coated timing gears reminds me of another genius idea from the late
70s and early 80s.I was into fast jap bikes and someone came up with a nylon front and rear
sprockets.Quiet as a shaft and no need to ever lube the chain.I personally thought this was a
dumb idea but a few members in the ICOA (International CBX Owners Assoc) had to try it out.
We had a member with a single turbo mounted to his CBX which had absolutely no power below
6000 grand and then bang,it was like a sledge hammer delivery.Actually felt very much like my 72
750 H2 kawasaki without the violent wheelstands.
We had a rally in Montebello Va and he was there with his turbo and nylon sprockets and when
we went out on the parkway he whacked it open.The chain actually ripped the nylon teeth off
the rear sprocket and shot them out the back of the bike.These little teeth struck another rider and peppered him in his chest and neck.He fortunately was wearing a full face helmet and leathers but he still had some nasty welts on his neck and the backs of both hands and fingers.
Those sprocket packages ceased to exist even though they worked well on low powered bikes.
Jim

That's a new one on me Jim. Never heard of that before. Lot's of "great" innovations in the 70's and 80's. Ha!

They didnt last long once the bike magazines started testing them.One much older member installed a set with stock exhaust and the sound it made was completely unique.With no
chain roar or loud exhaust all you heard was that wonderful 6 cylinder engine.
Jim

Hmmmm... The guy in San Antonio just sent me pics. Looks pretty rough. I'm curious what that engine is. It's an Olds for sure, but I believe GM started painting all engines black in 1980. That blue looks like 70's.....like 73-79.

The exhaust manifolds are off....and those should work on my engine...but I don't see the crossover pipe. That engine has the balancer, the lower crank pulley, the wp pulley, and the mounts for the p/s and alternator...all those things I need for my 350 swap, but not the a/c compressor brackets.

Hmmmmm

Cant beat the price Mike,just take what you need and sell the rest to one of the lowrider shops
that are so abundant down.With cutlass parts so hard to find just store at the ranch just in
case you need them in the future.You have a son that will be driving before you know it.
IMHO
Jim

Flasheroo wrote:

Cant beat the price Mike,just take what you need and sell the rest to one of the lowrider shops
that are so abundant down.With cutlass parts so hard to find just store at the ranch just in
case you need them in the future.You have a son that will be driving before you know it.
IMHO
Jim

Yeah but my son wants a K5 Blazer...and will not be alowed to touch the Cutlass. ; )

I would be surprised if it's anything better than an 81-84 307. The exhaust manifolds are not later 307 parts and I see a computer-controlled Qjet.

The other thing is that the fuel pump was also painted blue at the same time as everything else.

It would be nice if that's a 350 or 403 hiding under there though!

Oh..in the last pic, what's that black plastic box laying there? Oh wait, I'm old enough to remember those

His wants will change many times as he grows closer to that magic day when he gets his license.
You will change too as he grows into a young man and a canidate for driving your precious
Cutlass.
jim

Tyler you young whippersnapper,bet you do know what that black box is.Good joke though.
Jim

I'm most likely going to nab this. After getting it all I'll need is a crossover pipe and the a/c compressor mount. I can clean up the engine and trans and re-sell them....or if that's a 200r4 possible have it re-built to stouter specs while I'm driving my original one.

If this happens it'll be the week after Christmas. We'll see!

Engines were still "corporate blue" in 81. Black came after...

hmmmm,.somebody painted the motor,. you can see the olds blue coming thru n a couple of places,.. computer carb? i can't see it,.no electric choke,.the alternator bracket looks familiar,. definitely not late model,.notice the direct drive aftermarket fan somebody added,.? interesting balancer with skinny pulley out front for air pump?

hmmmm,. you might be surprised,. ask the guy to photo one of the cyl heads right above the drivers side front exhaust port,.see if it,s a letter or a number,.

a/c bracket should be same for 307/350/403 i think



Nick
thinking about 1967 toronoado's from california etc,.

.................

....................

hmmmm,.somebody painted the motor,. you can see the olds blue coming thru n a couple of places,.. computer carb? i can't see it,.no electric choke,.the alternator bracket looks familiar,. definitely not late model,.notice the direct drive aftermarket fan somebody added,.? interesting balancer with skinny pulley out front for air pump?

hmmmm,. you might be surprised,. ask the guy to photo one of the cyl heads right above the drivers side front exhaust port,.see if it,s a letter or a number,.

a/c bracket should be same for 307/350/403 i think



Nick
thinking about 1967 toronoado's from california etc,.

Nick you must have left your glasses at your last therapy session. Look again:

You can see the blue M/C solenoid connector top right on the carb and TPS connector on the left. And, most if not all Olds Qjets have air chokes, you know that.

I agree somebody has done something to it, question will be whether it was a Krylon rebuild of a 307 or something better.

Nice catch Tyler.I had to go back and look hard at the pic until I saw what you mentioned.Didnt
realize that olds dumped the the exhaust from the center cylinders into the same opening like
shown.
Jim

TylerW wrote:

And, most if not all Olds Qjets have air chokes, you know that,.

i thought later model stuff had electric,. and i must confess after about 76 or so my knowledge isn't so good,. cept for my old 403 79 t/a which had electric choke by the way,.
i bought and sold old cutlass's including a couple of 84-5's,. but i had zero to do with them as i really thought the 305 chev cars were much better,. and the 307 olds cars were simply good for 403 and up swaps,.

Nick

The guy with the engine got back to me. The large number on front of block is 3161-5A, which looks like an early 80's 307 withg 5A heads. So that would have all the parts I need for my 350 swap.

Ok then.

Some news here. I'd called this guy over the holiday and let him know I didn't want that engine and trans. I flat do not have room for it. He sent me an e-mail that he'll sell me the parts off the engine for $50! Woo Hoo! So I'm going down to San Antonio this Saturday to strip the alternator and p/s pump mounts and harmonic balancer, nab the pulleys, and get the exhaust manifolds.

Anyone want to pass on advice on the easiest way to pull that harmonic balancer on the garage floor there?? I just KNOW it's going to give me fits.

After getting these parts I'm going to hit Pick-N-Pull and Wrench-A-Part for an exhaust crossover pipe and the a/c compressor mounts.

With a little luck by Sat evening I'll have all the parts I need to get on this engine swap. It's long overdue!

Will take pics of anything cool at the salvage yards.

-Mike

take a duck foot puller with you,.jam something in the holes of the flywheel, to stop crank rotating, or a decent set of vice grips roll the motor on its flywheel with balancer standing up facing the roof,.
take a breaker bar and a HEAVY hammer, use a 6 point socket, smack the breaker bar hard and fast to loosen the bolt,.pull the balancer with the puller,.

Nick

phantom 309 wrote:

take a duck foot puller with you,.jam something in the holes of the flywheel, to stop crank rotating, or a decent set of vice grips roll the motor on its flywheel with balancer standing up facing the roof,.
take a breaker bar and a HEAVY hammer, use a 6 point socket, smack the breaker bar hard and fast to loosen the bolt,.pull the balancer with the puller,.

Nick

Thanks Nick! Will do just that.

-Mike

With all your toys.you dont have a cordless impact wrench?Just happen to have one for sale Mike!
Jim

Flasheroo wrote:

With all your toys.you dont have a cordless impact wrench?Just happen to have one for sale Mike!
Jim

I have an air compressor in my garage.....cordless scares me, but would be nice in this instance!

UPDATE: A guy called me from out in Taylor, he saw my wanted add on Craigslist, and he's got a 79 Trans Am with the Olds 403. He just put headers on it.

I ran over at lunch ad got the stock iron manifolds, crossover pipe, and pipe that goes to the converter, all for $30!! Woo-Hoo! Alll are in really nice shape, clean Texas metal. and the crossover pipe is even new, it's still shiny.

Not saying much since it's still a 2-into-1 exhaust, but the 403's had the largest manifold passenges of all the Olds small-blocks, and now I've almost got all the parts I need for the 350 swap. I'm excited.

Tomorrow I'm off to San Antonio to get the alternator, a/c compressor, and p/s pump mounts and harmonic balancer (I hope it comes off!), nab the pulleys, and get some cheap used valve covers so I can degrease the rebuilt engine for Olds gold paint.

I'm almost ready to start yanking the 307!

-Mike

Black or bright gold??

The correct color gold engine paint for the 350 is not easy to find now. Year One had it for $30 a can, and I need two cans. That's out of my budget....

So I can either use Dupli-Color Engine paint, which is a BRIGHT GOLD, or just use black, which would look stock for an '88 Cutlass....the 307's were black.

I could also go blue....can still get the light blue late 70's Olds color, but it would not be correct for the engine or the car..

Thoughts?? I do not want my Cutlass to look.....ghetto. BUT I'd like to be able to tell there is a real '71 350 in there.

-Mike

Sounds like things are coming together nicely Mike.What color is the 307?Nice score on the 403
manifolds too.Please not a ghetto gold like someone elses wagon engine is!
Jim

Flasheroo wrote:

Sounds like things are coming together nicely Mike.What color is the 307?Nice score on the 403
manifolds too.Please not a ghetto gold like someone elses wagon engine is!
Jim

The 307 that's coming out is black. GM went to black on all these in the early 80's.

My Dad is pushing me to paint it black too. It would show less dirt. We'll see...

mike just go black, keep it original looking