Olds Smog 307 to '71 Rocket 350 Engine Swap

buickestate wrote:

when you are told to focus, do you think ford?

I'm not quite that bad...

Sorry for not updating lately!

The Cutlass is still in pieces. I could not find a dipstick tube for it, so ended up taking the oil pan off the old 307 and beating the tube out of it from the bottom this past Saturday. Man what a MESS, that 307 was NASTY inside. I kept the oil changed the year I had it, but the bottom of the pan was full of chunky sludge. It’s no wonder the car had no oil pressure if it was sucking that into the engine. Yuck.

I had to take the passenger side exhaust manifold off the 307 to get the dipstick tube out as well, the tube runs under it, between the manifold and the block. It’s amazing how small the 307 exhaust ports are, they are round, and about the size of a quarter. It’s no wonder those engines are so weak, they can’t breathe! The ports on the 350 are HUGE in comparison.

Also had a little issue with belt alignment. The 350 harmonic balancer is just a tad wider than the 307, so I have to put one washer on each of the water pump studs to align the upper and lower pulleys.

The current issue is sorting out the vacuum stuff. I’m not running a smog pump on the 307, and have removed all the emissions-related garbage, but still have the EGR, have to make the carb and cruise control work.

The carb, distributor, and overdrive in the transmission are all controlled by the computer….and I don’t know how the computer is going to react to the having the majority of the emissions devices removed. I really hope the car runs and shifts!

I’m thinking if it doesn’t run, or runs terrible, I may have to get an aftermarket carb, a pre-1980 vacuum distributor, and an aftermarket switching device for the overdrive, and just totally take the stock computer out of the mix. Will have to budget for those parts, but at least the goofy Dodge Ram project is pretty much done.

I guess we’ll see how the Cutlass runs soon enough! Getting close to turning the key!

It is SOOOO cool to finally SEE the 350 engine in the car! Will keep you folks updated.

-Mike

Ok spent the weekend at the shop and running all over town for parts. Here's the novel!

Lets start off this post with two important statements:

- The 350 in the Cutlass is finally RUNNING!!

AND.....

- Nick...you were totally right about how stupid I was to try to retain the stock computer, 307 carb and computer distributor. There I said it..

SATURDAY:

Here's the deal, got everything finally all hooked up Saturday. The pretty '71 Olds 350 that I spent so much time painting and detailing was now buried under an ugly (but supposedly rebuilt!) computer quadrajet carb and 10,000 vaccum lines. It looked for all the world just like the 307...with some chrome valve covers added....yuck. The smog pump and related hoses are gone, but I put all the sensors, vaccum hoses, and connections off the 307 back on the 350. It's was not pretty.



I primed the carb, turned the key, and the new 350 engine fired right up! That was a cool moment. Then it stalled. It would start, but not idle.

After messing with it for an hour, tracing vaccum lines, looking for vaccum leaks, staring at the Check Engine Light glowing on the dash, wiggling sensors and trying to adjust the carb and the timing to make it run right, I was about to scream or cry or something.

I ended up adjusting the idle to 1300 rpm, where the engine ran smooth, and took it around the block.

The GOOD is that the engine has no knocks, taps, and does not smoke, and has TONS more power than the 307. The exhaust does not leak and the engine didn't drip and fluids. All that is good.

The BAD is that below 1300 rpm, the engine is shaking around, and below 1100 it stalls.

Dang.

Time for PLAN B! The computer is going BYE-BYE!!



I went and bought the brand new 600cfm electric choke Edelbrock above. It's a thing of beauty, I tell you it's pretty....and it wiped out pretty much all that was left of my paycheck too, but dammit, I want this car to RUN RIGHT!!

Spent the rest of Saturday afternoon taking stuff off the top of the engine, and cursing myself for doing all that work trying to keep it stock.

My current plan is to retain the vaccum for the heater valve, retain the cruise control wiring and vaccum, keep the temp sensors for the dash gauge and light, keep the air conditioning wiring, and pardon the term, but to shitcan the rest of the hoses, sensors, and associated garbage that's hiding my pretty new engine.

So I got to work.

Once I got all the garbage off the top the engine I set out to look for parts. I needed two shorter bolts to install the Elelbrock carb on the intake (the new engine already had an Edelbrock Performer 350 intake on it, so this is a good match of carb and intake I hope!), needed to cut the metal fuel line and replace it with a rubber line and an inline fuel filter.

On setting the carb on the intake, I realized the EGR valve is going to be in the way of the rod for the cruise control. I thought about it a minute....do I really need an EGR valve? The engine is a '71 model, it didn't have one new. SO off came the EGR valve, but NONE of the local parts stores had a block-off plate for it. I went to them all, but it was almost 8pm now. Finally at O'Reilly the guy said he found a chrome Mr. Gasket plate at a South Austin store, but it would be closed by the time I got there.

So I went back to the shop, closed up, and went home and showered for about an hour.

Saturday night I re-read this thread for tips from you guys, as well as going over to the G-body forum and going through 307-to-350 swaps there. I realized that I'd forgotten in my frustration over how it ran and my buying the new carb that the advance and retard on the 307's distributor was controlled by the computer. I would need a pre-1980 Olds vaccum distributor to go with the Edelbrock carb. The bad part was I was now pretty much broke. I looked online and the lowest price I could find for a new disributor locally was $104 from AutoZone. Ouch. I did find out that the new cap and rotor I'd put on the 307's distributor were the same parts numbers as the pre-80 models called for, so at least I could use those again.

SO today I got up early and headed for Wrench-A-Part in search of a used distributor. Took some pics of cars there and will post them in the photos section for you guys. https://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t6531-sunday-austin-texas-wrench-a-part-pics#67304

In the far left corner of the yard I found this 1978 Buick wagon, with a 403 under the hood:



The car was up so high I could not even reach the distributor, so I stacked up some wheels and pulled the VERY GREEN vinyl lower seat cushion from the 2nd row, and layed it in the engine bay, then climbed up and layed across the engine on the seat, and after a lot of sweating and cursing, nabbed this for $30! Woo-hoo!




Next I hiked out of the yard, which in the direct sun on the white rocks had to be about 110-degrees, got into my pickup, which was about 125-degrees inside after sitting in the dusty parking lot, and got on the highway back toward town with the a/c cranking.

I got to the O-Reilly Parts Store in South Austin and $10 later had a new chrome EGR block-off in my hand. The counter guy asked what I was going to use that on. He said according to the computer that part had been in the store since 1996! Wow! I told him about the Cutlass and he said he'd love to see it, and then I got back in the truck and headed for home.

Off the subject, but they are raising the speed limits all over the state and workers were out this weekend. For someone that grew up under the Federal 55, seeing these new signs is pretty awesome. Could not resisit nabbing the pic below:



God Bless Texas!

I got home and Misty made it clear that, after showering, I needed to spend some time with her and the kiddos, so that's as far as I got this weekend. Went to my parents house and we all went swimming, which with my sunburn from the salvage yard, felt like heaven! Then my wife took us to dinner. Nice.

Now I'm just settling down and figured I'd share the weekend work with ya'll. I'll get back over to the shop after work a few nights this week I hope. I'm still concerned about the a/c and cruise working now that the computer is out of the loop, and also if I'm going to have to modify the transmission since the overdrive and lock-up converter are computer controlled. Will have to read into all that.

For now, the immediate goal is to get the car really running well, and get it back home so I can clean and detail under the hood and then I'll start sorting out the questions above. As long as I can get it running, I believe I can drive it the 12 miles home from the shop in drive/3rd, not overdrive, and not hurt the transmission.

That's all for now gang!

-Mike

Pat yourself on the back Mike and then get someone to kick your butt for taking so long.Thanks
for all the severely missed pictures too!

If the Olds Edelbrock intakes are like the Chevy ones, you will need a plate to mount that carb on the intake. The other Performers are spread bore for Q jets. I have a Performer and a 1405 on my 71.

jayoldschool wrote:

If the Olds Edelbrock intakes are like the Chevy ones, you will need a plate to mount that carb on the intake. The other Performers are spread bore for Q jets. I have a Performer and a 1405 on my 71.

Well shoot. Guess I'm going to find out.

81X11 wrote:

jayoldschool wrote:

If the Olds Edelbrock intakes are like the Chevy ones, you will need a plate to mount that carb on the intake. The other Performers are spread bore for Q jets. I have a Performer and a 1405 on my 71.

Well shoot. Guess I'm going to find out.

Ah the joys of mixing and matching aftermarket parts. You're right, in looking around the Edlebrock 1406 will not bolt on the Performer 350 EGR Edelbrock manifold that my rebuilt 350 came with. The shift linkage will hit the EGR boss. It looks like I'll need a 1-1/4 inch spacer to make it work.

I hope the hood will close over the air cleaner once I do this. Will head to the parts store and lunch and see if I can find a spacer to make this work. Such fun.

-Mike

Ran over to the local speed shop, Austin Performance, just now. Told them the issue with the carb, and the guy smiled and handed me this:



VERY COOL! It's made specifically to adapt an aftermarket carb to a Quadrajet intake. Even includes studs, nuts, and gaskets. $25, hard to argue with that!!

I dropped it off at the shop, and found the NEXT issue. The EGR blockoff plate that I bought does not fit. It's too small.

I went back to Austin Performance and was told that Edelbrock does include an EGR blockoff plate with their new manifolds, but does not sell them outright. Dang! He said most people have them made or make them themselves, BUT he gave me the number of a shop that might have some laying around. I called and the guy is looking and said he'd call me back.

Ok then. Back to work.

-Mike

That adapter is not what you want. It is very restrictive. That is for putting a square bore carb on a factory Q jet intake. Hang on, I'll find the part.

Click here:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/install_items/adapters_spacers.shtml

Then, I believe you want part 2732. Spacers are below that.

jayoldschool wrote:

That adapter is not what you want. It is very restrictive. That is for putting a square bore carb on a factory Q jet intake. Hang on, I'll find the part.

Click here:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/install_items/adapters_spacers.shtml

Then, I believe you want part 2732. Spacers are below that.

Ahh crap..you're kidding me.... He had an Edelbrock 1405 there, same thing as a 1406 I have but without the electric choke. The four round holes on one side of the spacer line up perfectly with the bottom of the new carb, and two spacer holes get wider to line up with the larger intake openings for the Edelbrock intake designed for a Q-jet, which I have (3711).

He said not to get a open spacer, as it hurts lower-end power, but to get one with 4-holes.

So bad advice? I thought I was pretty much done here....

-Mike

This cobbling is becoming interesting. Keep us updated.

81X11 wrote:

jayoldschool wrote:

That adapter is not what you want. It is very restrictive. That is for putting a square bore carb on a factory Q jet intake. Hang on, I'll find the part.

Click here:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/install_items/adapters_spacers.shtml

Then, I believe you want part 2732. Spacers are below that.

Ahh crap..you're kidding me.... He had an Edelbrock 1405 there, same thing as a 1406 I have but without the electric choke. The four round holes on one side of the spacer line up perfectly with the bottom of the new carb, and two spacer holes get wider to line up with the larger intake openings for the Edelbrock intake designed for a Q-jet, which I have (3711).

He said not to get a open spacer, as it hurts lower-end power, but to get one with 4-holes.

So bad advice? I thought I was pretty much done here....

-Mike

It ought to work well enough to get you going. A squarebore-to-spreadbore adaptor is just that, it doesn't have much variation.

I'm glad you saw the light about the computer situation. People refuse to consider the fact that the factory calibration wasn't even rich enough for a 307, much less a 350 or 403.

You can buy several different tuning parts for those Edelbrocks such as step-up spring kits and rods/jets. They are a bit lean out of the box.

TylerW wrote:

81X11 wrote:

jayoldschool wrote:

That adapter is not what you want. It is very restrictive. That is for putting a square bore carb on a factory Q jet intake. Hang on, I'll find the part.

Click here:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/install_items/adapters_spacers.shtml

Then, I believe you want part 2732. Spacers are below that.

Ahh crap..you're kidding me.... He had an Edelbrock 1405 there, same thing as a 1406 I have but without the electric choke. The four round holes on one side of the spacer line up perfectly with the bottom of the new carb, and two spacer holes get wider to line up with the larger intake openings for the Edelbrock intake designed for a Q-jet, which I have (3711).

He said not to get a open spacer, as it hurts lower-end power, but to get one with 4-holes.

So bad advice? I thought I was pretty much done here....

-Mike

It ought to work well enough to get you going. A squarebore-to-spreadbore adaptor is just that, it doesn't have much variation.

I'm glad you saw the light about the computer situation. People refuse to consider the fact that the factory calibration wasn't even rich enough for a 307, much less a 350 or 403.

You can buy several different tuning parts for those Edelbrocks such as step-up spring kits and rods/jets. They are a bit lean out of the box.

Ok, I can live with that. I never plan to race this car, it's for taking to the cruise-ins with the T-tops off and weekend drives to the hill country. I just want it to be smooth and run well, and have enough power to keep up with traffic, which the 307 totally lacked!

-Mike

Is this your intake?



If yes, take back the part you got, buy what I posted. You went against advice on the computer, and learned the hard way. Take the advice from someone that has done it before.

The Edlebrock intakes are hybrids. They are a squarebore intake with kickouts for the bigger Q secondaries. So, it is really a square bore intake with a little wider area on the secondaries that the little plate seals up. Trust me.

jayoldschool wrote:

Is this your intake?



If yes, take back the part you got, buy what I posted. You went against advice on the computer, and learned the hard way. Take the advice from someone that has done it before.

The Edlebrock intakes are hybrids. They are a squarebore intake with kickouts for the bigger Q secondaries. So, it is really a square bore intake with a little wider area on the secondaries that the little plate seals up. Trust me.

Yes that's my intake. So buy that plate you listed, and then buy a 1-inch spacer with four equal-size round holes as I've been told as well, or use an open square spacer? If you've done this before I'll gladly follow your lead. I just want it to run right.

Can you also tell me where the transmission detent cable mounts on the 1406? Was trying to figure that out too and it's not listed in the owner's manual or the intallation DVD.

Such fun. Thanks for your help.

-Mike

Buy the shortest spacer you can get away with. You can cut a few out of plywood to mock up to get your height perfect. Also, research the difference between an open and a four hole spacer. They will change the powerband a bit.

To hook up the trans, you will need another adapter, or fab something up yourself. Bowtie Overdrives, Lokar, and TCI all offer the brackets.

Ok Jay, please understand I'm not arguing, I'm really trying to learn here and want this carb install to be right.

I went to O'Reilly after work, and they had the flat Edelbrock 2732 adapter for $10. That's fine. For the throttle linkage to clear the EGR boss, it looks like I also do need a spacer with about an inch of rise. They had one of these as well.

So I was all set to buy the 2732 adaptor and a 1-inch square-bore spacer with four holes, when the old guy working the counter said rather than buying both of those parts I should just buy Edelbrock part #2696, see here:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EDB0/2696/N1103.oap?ck=Search_N1103_-1_-1&pt=N1103&ppt=C0261 .

He said this is all that's needed to mate my carb to my intake, and it gives me the space I need as well. I made it clear that I was not going to a stock intake, and we looked up my intake I have on his computer, and he pointed at it and said "See there, where it kicks out, that's called a spread bore".

Grrrrr......

Do you see why my head is throbbing? The 2696 he wanted to sell me looks just like a solid metal version of the Spectre adaptor I already got at the speed shop this morning.

I told the guy that I'd been told those square-to-spread bore adaptors were very restrictive, and he looked at me like I was an idiot.

He then picked up the 1-inch square bore spacer I'd grabbed and said "look, this has four equal-size holes right?", and then he picked up the 2696 adaptor and said "do you see that this also has four equal size holes on top, but two of the holes get larger for the secondaries on your spread bore intake?....can you tell me how that's more restrictive than for small equal-size holes?...if anything, it's less restrictive."

Arrgh.

So I left the store without buying anything. The speed shop is down in Austin, so I've not returned the Spectre adapter yet.

I'm still fine with returning that Spectre adaptor tomorrow and getting the 2732 adaptor and the 1-inch, 4-hole square-bore spacer, but can your tell me why that setup is less restrictive than the Spectre or the Edelbrock 2696 the parts guy was pitching? I want to understand.

This is why I sell computers and cars are just a hobby!!

Oh he also showed me part # 8036, which is the linkage I need for my throttle, cruise control and transmission kickdown cables. He didn't have it in stock though...hopefully the speed shop will have it,

-Mike

I fully admit to being a little over my head on this project. Advice is funny, it was either use all the stock stuff, it'll be fine, or get rid of all the stock parts and use a 1406 Edelbrock.

It was a pain putting all the stock sensors, hoses and stuff back on, plus I rebuilt a second quadrajet, because I was told my first one was too far gone. After all that work, I just could not seem to make it run right...so now I went to Plan B.

Here is the latest update:

Jay has me convinced that the Spectre adaptor/spacer I bought yesterday is way too restrictive, and I should return it, and put a flat adaptor plate (EDL #2732) on the intake, and use a normal 4-hole square-bore spacer to raise the carb over the EGR boss.

So sometime today I'll make the rounds to the parts stores again and do that.

Also have to buy an additional mount, TCI-376710, for the throttle and TV cable connections on the carb, and I may have to buy a universal bracket kit that the throttle and TV cables run through, either an EDL-8036 or a Spectre #24283. BUT some have said the stock 200R4 Cutlass bracket will be fine. We'll see.

Lastly I have to buy a banjo fitting for the fuel line, part # EDL-8089, so I can retain the stock air cleaner assembly, which I want to do.

I'm also still trying to find an EGR blockoff. I guess I may have to make one since Edelbrock does not sell them outright and the guy I spoke to yesterday has not called me back.

I know others may do this Olds 307 to Olds 350 or 403 swap, which is why I'm trying to document all this.

Plus, I appreciate the tips and motivation from everyone.

-Mike

Mike, I know you are not trying to argue. I'm just telling you what will work.

Get the adapter I told you to. Put it on, with gaskets (dry) and put your carb on. See if you need a spacer. If you do, take the carb off, and start stacking nuts to see how thin a spacer you need.

Ran all over town during lunch. Returned the incorrect/restrictive Spectre adaptor/spacer and got the Elelbrock #ELD-2732 flat adaptor that was reccomended. Also picked up the fuel line banjo fitting, part # EDL-8089.

I wasn't able to find the TCI-376710 adaptor in stock for the throttle and TV cable connections, but Austin Performance is having one sent down from Dallas and I'll have it tomorrow.

Ran by the shop, and set the carb on the intake. That EGR boss is REALLY in the way. Went back to Austin Performance and picked up a 4-hole, 1-inch tall square bore carb spacer. I really hope 1-inch is tall enough to clear the EGR boss for the TV Cable. Any taller and I don't think the hood will close over the stock air cleaner....which I'd really like to retain.

Lastly I struck out on an EGR block-off plate, so I'll going to try to make one myself tonight. I picked up the EGR gasket to use as a template, and will see what kind of metal I can cut and grind into shape tonight after work.

Fingers are crossed that this get her running.

Right now I just want to get the car back to the house. I'm going to tinker with the cruise control, the a/c electrical, and the overdrive lockup once it home. If it runs right I'll drive home in 3rd gear and plan to totally clean and detail under the hood, and then will get on the other stuff when my next pay-period rolls around!

-Mike

Have you considered picking up the non-EGR intake and selling the one you have now?

jayoldschool wrote:

Have you considered picking up the non-EGR intake and selling the one you have now?

Yes I considered that, it would look cleaner and not have all the emissions holes in it, but new they are around $150-200 and have to be ordered, and I'm not finding a used one.

I could also go nab an original one from that new local yard I found that has all the Oldsmobiles in it, but hate to put one of those big heavy stock iron ones on in place of the the light aluminum Edelbrock I have. Plus these use those metal intake gaskets with the valley pan included, so that's another $20 there.

Bottom line is I don't want to ADD to the project. I can't afford it.

That said I got some metal and got after it with my whizz-wheel and grinder last night and MADE me an EGR block-off plate. I actually think it came out pretty well. Will be heading to the shop after work tonight and we'll see how it works.

-Mike

Well here's the latest. I dropped the EGR plate off at lunch, and the TCI-376710 adaptor for the throttle and TV cable connections came in. Dropped it off as well.

I'd read that the 307's throttle and TV bracket that mounts to the intake could be used with the 1406 Edelbrock carb. Well...it can't, because I don't have a stock intake. Back to Austin Performace for a bracket kit, EDL-8036.

Next up found out I needed an adaptor to hook the line from the brake booster to the back of the new carb. Thank goodness for O'Reilly, they had just what I needed for $4.

That's the latest folks. Hopefully it'll be running later tonight. Fingers are crossed!!

-Mike

Still not running. Found out the 2 1/2 inch long carb studs were too short last night. Went at lunch and got 3-inch studs. I'm running the flat spread-to-square bore plate, the 1-inch spacer to clear the EGR, and four gaskets. The 2 1/2 are just too short.

Also the Edelbrock cable mount kit for the throttle and TV cables will not work on my Performer 350 EGR manifold. Bummer. Had to go get the cheesy chrome Spectre one from Autozone. It fits, that's what matters.

Back to the shop again tonight!

-Mike

Wheeee isn't customizing fun?

So, all this drama is because you want to save 30 pounds or so.
on a 307...
.
I'm missing something here.

jimbeau wrote:

So, all this drama is because you want to save 30 pounds or so.
on a 307...
.
I'm missing something here.

So what else is new?

lol... I'll get you, fisheroo.

Bring it on jimbeano!

The 350 is RUNNING! And running really WELL! Woo-Hoo, at long last!

Now I have to figure out how to ground the a/c so the compressor will engage. It's charged, but with no computer it's not coming on. Have not figured that out yet and will have to look around the forums for the how-to.

Also have to sort out the cruise control and the lockup on the transmission. I'm going to drive the car home from the shop in 3rd gear tonight so as not to damage the trans. The TV cable adjustment seems to be right, it shifts fine. I'm going to order a Painless Wiring lockup kit for it, but that will be in about two weeks....next pay period. Ha! You know how it goes.

So for now I'll see if I can sort out the a/c and cruise control. I still have not figured out how to attach the cruise linkage to the new carb, and then I have to ground the wire under the dash for that. I have the instructions to do that, seems easy.

Also planning to totally remove the ECM wiring from under the hood, and do a BIG clean-up and detail. Plus I have to cut the line off the Cat Converter that is still sticking into the engine bay for my no-longer-there A.I.R. system.

ANYWAY I'm just glad it's finally running and running well. Will have some fun playing with it this weekend.

-Mike

But is it fast?

Flasheroo wrote:

But is it fast?

It's much better than a worn-out smog-era 307. I'm going to baby it like crazy for now, until the engine gets broken in well, the lockup for the transmission is sorted out, and I run some fresh gas into it. The gas in it now is over a year old. I put Sta-Bil in it when I parked it, but still, that gas is OLD.

Will remove the computer wiring and do a BIG clean-up this weekend, and then sort the rest out.

Either way I'm in a good mood this afternoon. She RUNS!

-Mike

81X11 wrote:

Flasheroo wrote:

But is it fast?

I'm going to baby it like crazy for now, until the engine gets broke,

Somehow it seems like you've done an awful lot of work just for this end result.

Jon

The local speed shop gave me the name of a guy that works at Aamco Transmissions down on Burnet Rd in Austin. Said he's the "go-to" guy for all the local hot-rodders. Just called him, seems like a really good guy, and he has the transmission lockup lit in stock, and quoted me a VERY fair price to install it. It's a TCI kit, not the Painless kit, but he says it works fine.

Will be dropping the car off for that next weekend. This weekend is for cleaning and detailing, and tweaking it all.

Pics to follow!

-Mike

SO I tinkered with it all weekend. Still have lots of tweaking to do.

- Have not figured out the proper timing yet. Set it like the 307 and it idles really rough and starts hard. Will have to Google the proper timing for the 350.

- Temp gauge is dead now, worked with the 307. The hole in the Edelbrock intake is larger than the stock 307 intake. I bought an adaptor at Napa, and it's bolted in, but still getting no reading. Either the sender is bad, or the adaptor raised the sensor up too high to get a good reading....?

- I had to install a dropped-base aftermarket air cleaner to close the hood. Put my Rocket 350 decal on it. Looks ok.

- Still have to sort the huge wiring mess out. Have not removed the ECM harness under the hood yet, but really want to do that. Stole power from that harness to run the electric choke, and once removed will have to find a new power source. Also it looks like the plug for the disributor is tied into this wiring (?). I have it all bunched up near the evap box near the engine, and it's such a jumbled mess it's hard to tell what goes where. I did install a vaccum-style distributor but did not mod any wires yet. I REALLY wish I'd pulled the wiring before dropping in the engine, but original plan was to keep the computer. Now I have 10,000 unplugged wires. Argh.

- Plugged off the PCV port on the carb and installed chrome vent caps on the chrome valve covers. They have the caps with the port for a hose and inline PCV, but don't think I need it. Thoughts?

- Still have not sorted out how the a/c is supposed to be wired to work.

- Still need to figure out how to hook the cruise control to the new carb.

Will sort out the a/c and cruise once the wiring is cleaned up and the car is running right.

Such fun. Car IS home at least.

-Mike

This was the donor car for my "new" '71 350, and belongs to a local club member named Terrence.

After all the work put in to it (a totally BUILT 403 engine, something like 400hp), it was home about 2 days, and after a day of fine tuning, it was put away for the night and Terrence took his wife to dinner.

Someone broke into his house, got the keys took the car for a joy ride, parked it in a field and burnt it to the ground afterwards.

The new engine drivetrain survived and is now looking for a new home in another Cutlass or GM product. I got a call from Neill, the guy that built the new 403 put the engine in the '71, and he said Terrence is just beside himself.





Really Sad Stuff!

-Mike

pictures would help us see your wire mess

buickestate wrote:

pictures would help us see your wire mess

I'm too embaressed.....

You need PCV. Hook it up, run a PCV valve in one of the valve covers.

You'll be able to get the cruise bracket/mounting working by just looking/thinking/drawing/drilling the carb linkage. Look at the original linkage, note where the cable pulls, and mount up a stud on the new linkage for the cable to pull on in a location that has similar geometry.

Temp gauge problem is likely that the sensor is not touching coolant. Get it lower, and/or bleed the system more. It can't read a gas, only liquid.

Mid 70s HEI Olds spec is "10° BTDC @ 1100 RPM with the vacuum advance disconnected. If you check it at idle you will be WAY retarded" from a quick google search.

81X11 wrote:

... Someone broke into his house, got the keys took the car for a joy ride, parked it in a field and burnt it to the ground afterwards...

This sounds suspicious. Tell me that it wasn't insured.

jayoldschool wrote:

You need PCV. Hook it up, run a PCV valve in one of the valve covers.

You'll be able to get the cruise bracket/mounting working by just looking/thinking/drawing/drilling the carb linkage. Look at the original linkage, note where the cable pulls, and mount up a stud on the new linkage for the cable to pull on in a location that has similar geometry.

Temp gauge problem is likely that the sensor is not touching coolant. Get it lower, and/or bleed the system more. It can't read a gas, only liquid.

Mid 70s HEI Olds spec is "10° BTDC @ 1100 RPM with the vacuum advance disconnected. If you check it at idle you will be WAY retarded" from a quick google search.

Thanks for the tips!

I'm just really glad the engine is in the car and it's home. Now I'll sort it all our. What you said about the the cruise control arm is what I was thinking. Just drill a hole and make up a linkage.

FYI, in looking around online I found all this info regarding the electrical:



-----To fix the Cruise Control:

There's 2 black connectors that plug into a clear/white connector near the ECM behind the passenger side kick panel. Look at the 2 black connectors. They are lettered.

Pin 'M' should be a black wire with a white stripe. This is the ground for the 'Vehicle Speed Buffer' which is needed for cruise control. Just ground this wire and you'll retain cruise control. Note that the vaccum ball under the hood near the brake booster is for the cruise control as well, and will need to be connected for the cruise to work as well.


-----To get the Check Engine light out:

Pop the circuit board out of the 'remote lamp driver' ( greenish colored plastic box wired into the ECM wires going through the dash and located behind the glove box ) and this will make the 'Check Engine' light go out.


-----FOR THE A/C SYSTEM OPERATION:

There is a green wire from the A/C switch to the computer, but this simply tells the computer that the A/C is turned on and to increase the idle speed. The computer uses the tach feed from the distributor to sense engine RPM. If you disconnect it, the computer assumes the engine is idling too slowly and shuts off the A/C to prevent the car from stalling. There is also a brown wire from the A/C compressor relay that is controlled by the computer. The computer disconnects the ground on this relay to turn off the compressor if it senses low freon pressure. This brown wire is in position 19 on computer connector C1. There is also a black wire in the same connector in position 15. This is the wire that tells the computer there is low freon pressure. By connecting the black wire (which is switched ground) to the brown wire, the compressor will work and the relay will automatically cut out when the freon pressure drops too low. Why you needed a computer in the middle of this is a mystery to me.



-----Now as for removing the ECM and wiring spaghetti under the hood, other than the a/c wiring mentioned above, everything else can be removed.

ECM underhood wiring harness removal:

Depends on whether you want to remove it intact or in cut into 2 pieces.

To remove it intact, do this;

1) Remove front passenger side wheel.

2) Remove a total of 3 bolts from the plastic inner wheel well ( the ones that allow you to pry it away and give you access to the grommet in the firewall where the harness goes through ).

3) Pry plastic wheel well as far as you can. Wedge a small block of wood in there to keep it out of your way.

4) Remove 2 small screws for the bracket that holds the grommet secure. I think they were 7mm???

5) Pry grommet out of firewall into engine compartment and the wiring harness will come with it.

6) Plug up hole where grommet was. I personally used a spare grommet and still have wires routed out through it ( the purple 'P' wire for the lockup, and the pink/w black stripe 'E' wire for electric choke, and my 'M' pin is grounded inside the car just above where the ECM was located ).

Obviously you need everything unplugged to and from the ECM harness to remove it, so above assumes you did so.

If you want to do it the hackers way, just cut the harness somewhere and pull the 2 halves out; one half through the engine compartment and the other half into the interior from the kick panel/glove box area.

jimbeau wrote:

81X11 wrote:

... Someone broke into his house, got the keys took the car for a joy ride, parked it in a field and burnt it to the ground afterwards...

This sounds suspicious. Tell me that it wasn't insured.

AGREE!Something does sound suspicious,kinda odd that he just happened to go out to dinner but I do feel bad for the car!

Flasheroo wrote:

jimbeau wrote:

81X11 wrote:

... Someone broke into his house, got the keys took the car for a joy ride, parked it in a field and burnt it to the ground afterwards...

This sounds suspicious. Tell me that it wasn't insured.

AGREE!Something does sound suspicious,kinda odd that he just happened to go out to dinner but I do feel bad for the car!

I don't know the guy with the 71 Cutlass well. Did the deal on my 350 through my friend Neill, the car was at his shop for the 403 install and I got the 350 when it was pulled out. I do know Neill said the guy really loved the car.....hate to think it was a scam.

-Mike

I got home last night and popped the hood, and on a whim turned the distributor. It moved freely....I'd not tightened the hold-down bolt. I turned it counter-clockwise a bit and then went to start the car and it fired right up and idled MUCH MUCH better. Still has a little shake, but not nearly like it was.

Whoops on my part. Got the tool out and tightened the bolt.

Was in the upper 90's....didn't pull out the timing light. Will tinker with the car some more this weekend after dark. It's summertime in Texas folks, ouch!

That distributor came from the salvage yard, and other than a new cap and rotor, I did nothing to the dist itself. Good idea to check out the weights too I guess. Make sure they are moving normally. Will do that as well!

-Mike

So Neil, who is working on my Cutlass now, called me on Saturday and said the distributor I pulled from the salvage yard '77 403 Electra is no good. Weights are frozen and needs new bushings. He said he could rebuild it or I could go get a replacement.

I got on Craigslist and found this ad: http://killeen.craigslist.org/pts/3067712872.html


Called the guy, and he is in Lorena, close to Waco. He's closing down a speed shop and had 200 distributors he's trying to sell. Has them all at $40 each. Brand name is Wiseco from California. Nice guy, he offered to meet me in Temple, which is half-way between Waco and Austin.

Drove up yesterday and met him. Distributor was still new in it's box...no paperwork, but looks good. We'll see! Also went yarding at Belton Wrench-A-Part, but sorry, nothing of note wagon-wise.

Dropped the new distributor off at Neil's yesterday afternoon. We'll update when I know more!

-Mike

Good score!

Dont know if it matters but sometimes the distributor drivegear metal is not compatible with the metal the cam is made of.I am sure the seller would know if they will work!

Neil called and said the car runs MUCH better. He's still tinkering with it, and is about to road test it, but he said it starts easy and the idle is much better, the timing is now right and it advances just like it should when revved.

He did say he noticed a coolant leak at the t-state housing...I guess I'm not even a good parts-changer. Doh.

He's still messing with it but it was a good update!!

-Mike

aren't you done yet?

You're never done with an old car!!