So I'm thinking of swapping in a sedan rear end...

...in the Marshmallow. I know teh interwebs say it "can't be done" but I seen it with my own two eyes once. And it is just WAY TOO EASY a rear disc swap to not try it. Pics of said swap:
Angle @ frame end:


Angle @ axle end:


Spring angle:


I know the angles of the LCA's are off a bit, but it's just a little bit. In the real world driving conditions, is it that big a deal? What if one were to go with a set of new, UMI Performance U&LCA's? Would new rubber bushings have enough give? What if I were to go with a set of adjustables with a Heim joint at one end? Like these:


I'd assume those joints on the end would make up for the tiny bit of angle play? I could do uppers with the same joints. Would they adversely affect the way the car rides without having bushings at both ends? Is there a longevity issue that way in a daily driver? Help me out here. I'm THIS close to doing this!

I do also realize that I will need different backspacing on the rear wheels or have to run spacers/adapters to make up the difference.

Whatchoo think?

Bill...could you not move the mounts on the axle to match the location on the wagon rear?? I would be worried about the LCA angle...but I don't know. You could even move the spring perch too right?

Those underbelly pics made me feel even better about the one I just got...lol

I would have the mounts moved to the correct locations.

Saw a post on ISSF about rear discs in which a person installed a complete factory setup on his wagon rear. Just requires welding on a new set of backing plate mounts. He put them at the correct depth and voila Impala rear discs.

Either way has got to be loads cheaper than any current/future bolt on kit and I love doing things cheap.

Do those worn out bushings ^^^^ look stressed to you?

toomanytoyz wrote:

Do those worn out bushings ^^^^ look stressed to you?

No.

UberWagon wrote:

toomanytoyz wrote:

Do those worn out bushings ^^^^ look stressed to you?

No.

Thanks Ray. My point exactly. That's a 9C1 rearend in a wagon, with no modifications.

toomanytoyz wrote:

Thanks Ray. My point exactly. That's a 9C1 rearend in a wagon, with no modifications.

I'd rock it!

Whats the worst that can happen? The car handles like crap on the maiden voyage and the wagon rear goes back in.
On the flip side you get disc brakes on the cheap with little hassle, just keep an eye out for any stress cracks in the CA's but I would think that would be a non issue, these cars are built like tanks.

How long has the car in the pics had the sedan rear under it? Take a look under the car again if it has been a while and look at the bushings and CA's again. If it has been a decent amount of time and miles with no problems, I say go for it.

Do it.

Do it and bring it to 'Fest. I wanna see this in person to believe! (lol)

brokecello wrote:

Do it and bring it to 'Fest. I wanna see this in person to believe! (lol)

That's where EYE saw it last year.

More discussion on the ISSF, if you're interested. Some good points there, too.

They don't look stressed at all. My only thing is isn't the wagon rear sturdier for the added weight?

94Woody wrote:

They don't look stressed at all. My only thing is isn't the wagon rear sturdier for the added weight?

It has a heavier-duty wheel bearing, but I won't be towing or hauling with it, so I think it'll be fine.

And sorry guys, it won't be done in time for the 'Fest. But I am pretty sure that the original "you can't do that" will be there for your viewing pleasure.

toomanytoyz wrote:

94Woody wrote:

They don't look stressed at all. My only thing is isn't the wagon rear sturdier for the added weight?

It has a heavier-duty wheel bearing, but I won't be towing or hauling with it, so I think it'll be fine.

And sorry guys, it won't be done in time for the 'Fest. But I am pretty sure that the original "you can't do that" will be there for your viewing pleasure.

Who owns it? And yeah..you won't be towing...just throwing it around cones while screaming "Yee the #$%^ Haw!!"

That is true and I say do it. Makes me wish I had got that 9C1 rear when I had the chance. The idea of being able to run wider tires due to this is nice as well.

94Woody wrote:

That is true and I say do it. Makes me wish I had got that 9C1 rear when I had the chance. The idea of being able to run wider tires due to this is nice as well.

I couldn't have said it any better.

Also from what I am finding out from this post and your other one on ISSF, it certainly sounds doable.

Rear disc brakes aside, the option for wider wheels and lower gears (for relatively cheap) - and in my case a posi- make it more than worthwhile.

brokecello wrote:

And yeah..you won't be towing...just throwing it around cones while screaming "Yee the #$%^ Haw!!"

Not just me... There's room for 6 more in the car with me for each run!

I forget his actual name, but his ISSF screen name is secret4mula, and he's got a gold 94 wagon. Cool dude. It was too funny last year because he showed up with it and then that's when he found out it couldn't be done!

So did you ever do the swap? secret4mula sent me pics of his and it looks ok in the pics.
I got a 96 9c1 rear on the side of my house now.....(no time to pllay with it now though )

I have the impala disc rear in the garage, but haven't had time to do it. I hope to before the Fest though. I also have a Tru-Trac, 4.10's, and a set of UMI Performance LCA's laying around. Oh yeah, and a Panther bar, too...

So you put that rear end in yet ? How did it turn out ?

Well... I built the rear end, does that count?

Hope to finally get around to swapping it in this spring. Maybe. Probably.

K,. i just read this thread and here's my opinion which added to two bucks will get you a coffee anywhere,.
IF you listen to eevry opinion on the internet,. you'll do nothing,.
IF I was doing this swap, i,d nip one side of the lower arms right where they go into the bushing and add alittle to one side, and shorten or heat and bend the other,. so they were lined up a little straighter,.
box it, and be done,. easy cheap,. mebbe nasty too,,. but functional,. i never understood why folks didn't modify the arm, it,s a cheap easy to manipulate piece of tin,. and the angle is only off mebbe 15-20deg??

Nick
JMHO,.
YRRWV
NWEOI
PDCC

toomanytoyz wrote:

Well... I built the rear end, does that count?

Hope to finally get around to swapping it in this spring. Maybe. Probably.

Only if you have pics of the whole set up , then all is forgiven .

First thing I thought of when I saw your pics Bill is Damn I am glad I live in the south!We have been to the moon and back several times and we cant devise a cheap noncorrosive way to
remove snow from the roads.Manufactures dont have to worry designing obsolences they have
SALT!
IMHO
Jim

if i ever come across a disc rear would like to this mod to add the disc to the existing rear end

http://www.goldsswagon.com/WagonDiscs/WagonDiscs.htm

I don't meant to change the 'flavor' of this thread, but... does everyone here realize that rear disc brakes are pretty much for the "cool factor" only?
The only time rear brakes do any useful work is when pulling a trailer with some significant tongue weight.
Discuss...

jimbeau wrote:

I don't meant to change the 'flavor' of this thread, but... does everyone here realize that rear disc brakes are pretty much for the "cool factor" only?
The only time rear brakes do any useful work is when pulling a trailer with some significant tongue weight.
Discuss...

depends how you drive your car,.nice thing about discs is they don't need adjusting to bring the pedal back up,. and with the proper proportioning and master cyl,. pedal effort is oft times reduced which is a good feeling to those who like to drive their cars hard. I have 13" 4 piston on the front and 12" single piston on the back, and it,s a nice comfortable feeling to be able to scoot along the interstate and not worry about stopping the car quickly with no shake or shudder,It,s most times all about slowing the car quickly with stock brakes i.e 70 mph to 30-40mph,.very rarely from 70mph to zero,. but just for shts n giggles try a panic stop from 70-0 sometime and see ho the brakes are,..so many guys mod their motors to go fast yet few it seems like to have the big brakes to go with the extra power.
When you have driven a car with a very strong braking system, you begin to realize just how marginal factory stuff is,.especially brakes that are trying to stop a 4500lb car,.
Most wagon drivers drive like wagon drivers and are blissfully unaware,and would likely never go fast enough to need anything more than the factory brakes,.

Yes the "flavour" of this thread is now changed


Nick

Can we change the colour, too?

phantom 309 wrote:

jimbeau wrote:

I don't meant to change the 'flavor' of this thread, but... does everyone here realize that rear disc brakes are pretty much for the "cool factor" only?
The only time rear brakes do any useful work is when pulling a trailer with some significant tongue weight.
Discuss...

When you have driven a car with a very strong braking system, you begin to realize just how marginal factory stuff is,.especially brakes that are trying to stop a 4500lb car,.
Most wagon drivers drive like wagon drivers and are blissfully unaware,and would likely never go fast enough to need anything more than the factory brakes,.

Yes the "flavour" of this thread is now changed


Nick

I completely agree had may brakes fad on me Thursday after some spirited driving and now I am looking into the big brake kit ! Trying to find the most cost effective (cheap) way of doing it . But after having to wait on the brakes to work will not be doing that again not fun .

I'll bet that if you just beefed up the fronts like nick did, you wouldn't notice much of anything more from beefing up the rears. I just mean that it's not 'money smart' to bother with the rears, since the fronts do all the work.

jimbeau wrote:

I'll bet that if you just beefed up the fronts like nick did, you wouldn't notice much of anything more from beefing up the rears. I just mean that it's not 'money smart' to bother with the rears, since the fronts do all the work.

Very true for most guys running a street car,.the difference in braking is so dramatic,.as i said most drivers have no idea just how ineffectual their brakes would be in a fast panic stop,.

just for giggles try it sometime,.

go from 80mph to a dead stop with all the braking you have,.the brakes will likely be shuddering and complaining around 20mph,. and it,s interesting just how far it takes to get stopped from the 20mph to zero while doing the panic stop,.

If you add a proportioning valve, it really makes the car plant more squarely with rear discs,. rather than a huge nose plant,
and the car trying to swap ends because the front stops so hard and the back doesn't,.
Then the next step is working the suspension to keep the back end on the ground,.
Nick

Oh, I know what you're talking about. The cop calipers aren't much better.
How much money did it cost you to redo the fronts on your ride?

Regarding "swapping ends": that happens when the rears lock up, not the fronts. If the fronts lock, but not the rears, you lose steering control but the rear will just follow along nicely. I have to admit that I hated the idea of anti-lock brakes when they first came out, but they DO work like a charm on anything other than dry pavement.

I think i spent $450? for the front in parts,.. same for the rears if i recall,.
some fabbing and lathe work,.

Nick

Gonzo did the sedan rear swap in his and seems to have put a lot of miles on it with no trouble (I think). John (mtrhead79) is redoing a sedan rear and moving the spring perches, shock mounts, etc.. If he could fit it in the wife's oven he would powder coat it.

BigBlackBeaSSt wrote:

Ghonzo did the sedan rear swap in his and seems to have put a lot of miles on it with no trouble (I think). John (mtrhead79) is redoing a sedan rear and moving the spring perches, shock mounts, etc.. If he could fit it in the wife's oven he would powder coat it.

I am on my second sedan rear.
The 1st was from a 91 caprice LO3 sedan saving for further project.crap gears 7.5
The second from a 95 caprice LT1 not modded, mileage unknown. I do know i am 2100 miles on it right now