Shammoo update

I agree with Stingaroo,we in the group want to hear the beast run in all its 450 horsepower glory!Or at least maybe just a little IDLING.Once you get it tweaked and running right thats going to be a quick damn wagon.
After following your story I am impressed by the guys at KICKER cause most places wouldnt even care about who owned their old promo cars.Once the bigger sound companies are thru with their show demo vehicles they get stripped and then trashed so other outfits cant use any of their ideas.I am definitely going to consider their products in the future when I can find the cash to upgrade the speakers.
Take Care
Flasheroo

Dave, good for you. Nice going on the ignition system detective work!

I hate suggesting things to someone who clearly has a lot of thought into his ride, but have you toyed with putting a RAISS intake on that car after doing an LT1 electric fan conversion? You'd get a lot less hot air from yokers like me into that beautiful intake.

Thanks for the ideas Joel. I agree 100% with your assessment of the hot air issue. I have thoughts of accomplishing that in two ways

1) getting rid of the mechanical fan and going to dual electrics. I think Matt (Stockfornow) in Spencerport, NY (20 minutes away) has a conversion kit available. Once something like that is in place...

2) add a hood scoop. The Raisse scoops work well and look nice, but I'm a bit more old school. I've also seen a relatively flat scoop on Toyota trucks and Subaru's, but that would take more metal working skills than I possess. More lilely it will appear something like this..., so that as you suggest the fresh air can be better directed into the filter.


These are a few photos shot fresh this morning with the scoop thrown on, in it's approximate position


So what do you guys think... Cool or Stupid?





.

Well...I think it would work with the other exterior mods you have! That makes a statement about your ride, so you better keep that thing faSSt! Do IT!

I think it would drive me nuts while driving though...I had a 2 in cowl hood on my old 68 Impala and I felt like my view was blocked too much. I am weird like that though.

Oh common dude. You already KNOW it looks cool.

I'm toying with the idea of a scoop too - but in a totally non-functional capacity.

brokecello wrote:

I am weird like that though.

yes,.. yes you are,.

scoop sucks,. jmho.

Nick

Repainted the Plenum and runner. They were getting pretty beat looking from all the ignition work. Also had to reset the timing (at eight degrees it's happy) and reset the TPS voltage. Within the past few days I've data-logged to get the fuel map closer to BLM values of 128. Iworked on the lean settings over 3000rpm and 80Kpa I was getting some lean pops, so before it got serious, I went in to correct it .

Additionally, with a 230/236 cam, it idles around 50-60KPa, so there has been some Acceleration Enrichment and Power Enrichment issues, so some beginning work on programming is also going on there as well. I added more AE furl and rolled back PE back 5% so it gets to a higher % TPS setting before PE keeps in

I also rewired the A/C back in. Figured since it's summer, it might come in handy. Also been tinkering with interior ideas for rebuilding the center console. Idea stage so far.

Dave, I agree with Brokecello's point. Drive it around with the scoop taped on for a week or two and see how you like it. I really appreciate having a smooth hood with no visual obstructions so having that thing there would bother me.

Second, I was going to say that the scoop kills any subtlety about the car but then those sidepipes (which I really like!) have already done that. So I think ultimately the question comes down to the creature comfort concerns of the scoop.

I enjoyed your comment Joel, particularly the point of subtlety.

I'd have no clue as to what tape could be relied on to actually hold it in place on the hood while cruising around town on the expressway. Maybe around the block might work.

I's been looking at a 2208 subaru Impreza WRI hood for ideas as well . Think of this scoop , but moved forward to the leading edge of the hood . (sorry for not being able to properly link the photo so it shows. please post it if you know how)

It would kind of add to the open mouth look of a hungry predator to it, but add more metal work than I'm sure I can tackle. Cutting a hole for the other scoop is easy.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/auto-shows/new-york/2008_subaru_impreza_wrx

imho, no to the scoop. Never been a fan of those, unless they were protruding through the hood of a 78 T/A and shaking around. Maybe you should do *that* heh

Shammoo's down again.

While trying to figure out why the ignition has been cutting out, it developed a second issue... No fuel pressure.

I can hear the pump run, so most likley the hose within the tank has either ruptured of popped off. While the tank is out, I decided to change to pump over to a high volume Walbro 255lph unit. I'd been running into an issue of the injectors (32lbhr) being maxed out on the fuel table but still going lean on my BLM's. The injectors should have been ample for the task, but not enough volume of fuel to feed them is a likley issue. That will end as soom as the package from Summit arrives.

I was able to drop the tank OK, and had the sender out quickly, awaiting the fuel pump. The Walbro 255lph pump arrived on Saturday from Summit, but I was in the middle of changing brake pads and calipers on an old 92 beater Lincoln.

Got up at 6:00am on the holiday (07/04) to work on the tank. Had to do a little carving out of the plastic on the bottom of the sender to receive the new pump. It has a centered inlet, whereas the old inlet (stock) was offset. Also I hadn't ever noticed the plastic pump receiver is actually tapered. I had to trim about half the high density foam vibration sock away to enable the pump go go all the way in. top side was eqasy.. plug and play on the conectors.

I also fiddled with the gauge sender unit, to try to get the lowest possible ohm reading on it, to improve the gauge accuracy. I'll also be getting the kit that one of the Forum guys has available to dial in the digital guage better as well.

While my tank was out, I added a tranny pan drain. All it took was a
1/2" hole drilled through the plastic. About $4.00 at Advance Auto. Next time, draing the tank will be easy.

The tank is buttoned up..... waiting for more free time to finish putting it up into the chassis cradle.

if you followed the "win a free beer Thread You already know what this is.



the short version:
It's a remote mounted, GM HEI Ignition Control Module cooled by a temperature controlled fan with heat sink, coupled to an Accel 300+ double strike ignition. It's in, complete and it works... so far without issue.

the long version:
In the center of my photos is a remotely mounted GM HEI ignition module, cooled by a typical computer heat sink and 12v fan combo. The fan is thermostatically controlled by a secondary radiator fan sensing unit from Advance Auto. ($19.00) The unit is set to start the fan at approximately 140F, which seems to work well so far, considering I don't want the fan on all day draining the battery with normal under hood temps on a black car just sitting in the sun. I set it with the use of the old family hair dryer and an infrared temp sensor gun from Harbor Freight.

The whole system is wired in a fused circuit directly from the battery so that it can still run after the engine is shut down. I did not want the cooling to stop when the ignition was turned off. Works just like some radiator fans do, that even though the car is off, the fan can still keep cooling.

As suggested by responses questions fielded at http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/578176-remote-ignition-module.html ...the cable from the trigger coil inside of the distributor is a high temperature, shielded, twisted pair. It was a pain to ground it at the distributor side, so the shield is grounded at the ICM heat sink. Being near the ignition wires does not seem to have any negative effect. The four wire group from the ECM to the module had to be lengthened. I used soldered connections throughout.

For the female clip connector from the trigger coil to the module I used a spare from an prior coil that fried. The male end was cobbled up from a box of ECM repining ends that I found on a rack at NAPA. The pins were then placed in a little wad of 2 part epoxy putty to form a block shaped connector.

So here's the why part: HEI internal module systems are prone to self-distructing due to the high heat environment that must survive in. And that's at a stock level.. Add high performance goodies like headers, and that overhung cowl of a Caprice, and you might as well be baking chicken while you are at it. So what I've done is taken a module out of there and put it in a much cooler airstream on the fender, and am helping it remain cooler with the heat sink and fan set up.

The whole system can still easily be returned to stock, but given Shammoo's past issues with fried ICM's that's not likely to happen any time soon.

getting as much done as possible. Off on vaction this week ..a gig to play at on Sunday 07/25/10 , then I'm on vacation all week...

Working on the new custom center console for Shammoo. the center of the cr is gutted at the moment and the jig saw is making sawdust! trying to get the front section of the interior at least cleaned up if not workable, but I'm still a lot of $$$ short for the Audio system. I'm laying out the dash component side of things at least. Got a Kicker KQ9 EQ unit on the way and will lay out wiring to rear amps this week. Amps subs & footwell pods will have to come later on... there's always winter for that!

Here's an idea of where I am on the Tueaday before wagon fest.


Megashifter;




Gutted center section


Part of what gets put in my console.

UNFREAKING BELEIVABLE!

Crap... went out to fire up Shammoo... NO START.


no fuel pressure. brand new Walbro 255 lph pump

relay clicks as normal.

tested pump at body harness connection.... no pump running.

FULL tank of gas.... Man am I ever happy I put a drain in the tank a few weeks ago


I'll be up at 6:00am draining the tank. If the Walbro is fried, Im glad I still have the Bosch unit that it replaced handy. I am so freaking bummed right now... 1 day and 40 miles away and the car can't even fire up!

SO the good news is Shammoo made it to Wagonfest. I found a connector in the tank to the fule pump had rattled loose. A zip tie fixed. I can't tell you how happy I was to have had the foresight to put in a fuel tank drain the last time I had the tank down. Just $4.39 foe a Tranny pan drain kit at Advance Auto.


People will say they just remove the line at the fuel filter and run the pump from the body connector. That's fine IF the pump works... Otherwise you are screwed. So if you ever find the need to drop your tank, spend $4.39 for a drain while you've got it out. I'll post pics of the console soon. You can spot one of it in the Wagonfester 2010 pics in the meantime.

good to see the famous shamoo,. not so sure about the side pipes,.but hey,. they certainly amplify the sound of the cam,.,Nice to meet you dave, and thanks for the coronas!!
Next year I'll bring you something like molson brador ,.

nick

Thanks Nick, I'll be looking forward to the brewski's

So here' the center console changes from the original before the B&M Megashifter went in.





THe megashifter install.



gutting the center of the dash and lower mock-ups




upper panel layout





semi finished form... not sure if I like the flat aluminum yet...

Kind of lends itself to an industrial killer cockpit look but... might cover that up yet with a tweed that matches the seats. Drink holder section nees to be moved back a few inches as it interferes with the shifter mechanism when you slam down the gears.




HHMMM???.............. Anyone notice that the heater- A/C controls went missing?

They are behind the video screen.
I still need to add the ALDL port, computer port and rotary programming change dial.

Having driven with the console in place, I find I need to make a few changes. The drink holder portion id too close to the shifter, as my hand keeps banging into it. So it need to be moved back,

Second, in pictures, I'm not as impressed with the change of color on the console. it looks much more reddish than planned for. I'd hoped it would better match the section of the seats, but it doesn't. I have plenty of the gray tweed left so i can change it over to match the rest of the interior, and will likely head in that direction over the winter.

One thought - have you considered painting the aluminum plate gloss black? If you recovered the console sides in gray and did the aluminum plate in black, that would match the rest of the dash theme.

Good point Joel. That's very likely to be the direction I might take

In attempting to veiw the pictures from an artistic perspective, I wonder if there are too many colors, textures and and changes of surface going on.

I'd appreciate some view points from the other forum members in that regard.

Any thoughts Boys? Don't be shy!

I was recently asked about my engine combination at another forum.
The first thing is that no one expects to see it when you open the hood.

With a dyno simulator program in use, the parts combination was showing
over 550lbs of torque, never less than 500 from 1800-500orpm.
Theoretical horsepower maxed at 460 at 5k, but these were not true real
world dyno runs, just simulator runs. As is typical of TPI, especially
on larger cube engines, there is not much point in going over 5k rpm as
it can't breath anymore. Hence people use the Holly Stealth Ram to
extend the usable upper rpm range. I even have heavily modified ported
SLP Siamese runners and Edelbrock high flow manifold, along with 58mm
blades in the throttle body.

I used the AFR 195 heads to keep the speed of the incoming air
charge up, giving consideration to including a 230/236 cam where
overlap becomes an issue and higher speed to the air charge helps in
that regard. The AFR 210 heads would not be as useful for "low rpm" application as the speed of the air coming into the chamber air slows. Higher air speed help mix air/fuel better.So while some parts lessen restrictions of the plenum and throat of TPI
systems, the heads keep the air moving faster at lower RPM to both help issues, to fill the cylinder quickly and mix the atomized fuel better. I think I've made every reasonable change to compensate for the bad aspect of TPI, to help the top end breath as best it can short of getting a Holley stealth Ram or Lingenfelter manifold.


I planned on living within those limits by intentionally using the 400
block. It is known for low end torque, as is the TPI system. They are VERY
well matched at lower rpm levels. I'VE REd many times before that trying to build a 400 block TPI system for high RPM derived horsepower is a tragic exercise in futility. The 400 blocks were never much good at high rev's and neither was the TPI system, so they both have the same strengths at low rpm and same deficiencies at high rpm. Pulling our 5000+ lb wagons off the line requires torque at low end. Pulling a
trailer... same thing, low end torque, not high rpm.

So although I admit to mainly wanting the appearance of the TPI, I
took a lot of time choosing matching components to maximize things within my
overall efforts, and understood the compromise that I would need to
live with.. I went for the big grunt all the way, not scream.

Have you had this car on a chassis dyno to actually see what it's capable of doing?

I agree with you - building a 400-block TPI-topped motor with things optimized for torque between 1000-5000 rpm seems like a winning combo for a street car.

Since the "tune' was/is ongoing, I hadn't made consideration for dyno work yet, at least up to this point. I recently boosted the fuel pressure at the regulator to combat running lean at the top end. Kind of disputes my previous so called "not enough air" theory all to hell if it's running lean. So as a result, I will need to get back to some fuel table management via data logging to see if the bottom end of the table is running too rich again. It's a seesaw effort.

It might be that I'm actually running out of injector. I have 32lb/hr injectors would should have been good for my original horsepower expectations. I may be exceeding those intended marks and as a result the injectors might not be able to spray enough into the cylinder when it gets wound up. Might be 36 pounders instead.That's about a $337.75 plus shipping problem. So I'll wind the pressure up first.

08/31/2010 Last day of August

Shammoo is running pretty good overall. Minor issues are getting the rpm to drop down to idle sppedd where it belongs. It's been hanging up around 11-1200 rpm when I come up to a light, or am parking and switch to nuetral.. BOth of those things are getting under much better control, along with stable idle immediately at startup. It was running up to 1600 and slowly coming down. Ichanged the rpm to coolant temp table and it helped a great deal.


Inteior wise<i've been rebuilding my center console. I did not like the way it presents in WF10 photos, as having too many colors. The lower portion is almost done, recovered in gray, and the beverage center moved back three inches to clear the shifter better. . The upper section was widened slightly as I forgot to account for the thickness of the upholstery fabric and it was preventing the video screen from tilting out properly. I', also adding the wiring for the next phase of Kicker amps and speakers along with the KQ9 equalizer to control them.

Almost done with the revamping of the center console. As mentioned previously, it hada few issues.

Also my Kicker KQ9 eq came in and I've been reworking a new aluminum upper console plate to fit it properly. I'm about 80 % done on it. Mounting the components well, and finall wiring is yet to come. Been thinking of making all wiring connections modular so it won't be such a pain in the ass in connect things up.

The Red switch I plan to use for the either fans or sound system amps, and the others for interior lighting combinations. I got a roof console at WF10 and plan to add perimeter lights on it, footwell lights and storage area lights. Might use the red switch as a master for everything to kick on at one time...


... any ideas out there? Prime the explosive charges?

Hoping to post new pics this weekend.

Pics as promised of new console as it develops. So far I'm liking the fact that it matches rather than contrasts the rest of the interior colors.

lower half of center console so far.




upper half of center console.



roof console as purchased.... no mods yet.

Over the past few days, I have been in contact with "Kicker" Stillwater Designs, and got their impresion of the face lift I want to give Shammoo. (see the "face lift poll" thread) They were all for it, calling it "hot" and "intimidating".

One of the guys, Charlie, was kind enough to send his favorite photo from his own personal collection from when he toured with "Shammoo" out West., during it's demo days. This photo was taken on Bonneville Slat Flats.





This was the photo shopped picture of a wagon similar to Shammoo with a ducted scoop instead of a high rise scoop.

That is a great pic. Get that printed and hang it proudly in your house!

Well, it's officially December 1,2010 and Shammoo has gone into hibernation for Winter. The last step will be putting the fuel stabilizer into the tank, except it cold and sleeting out at the moment. There is always tomorrow.

The reprogramming has been coming along well. I've been playing mostly with fuel and spark related parameters, and have gotten better response out the the engine. It doesn't seem sluggish on it's way the 4k prm any more, with one exception. There is still a slight hesitation at light trottle increase, a stuuter of sorts. After consultaion with the EFI guru's at www.thirdgen.org, I'm keying in on Acceleration Enrichment factors in terms of pulse width and RPM, relationship.


Additionally Ive been working on throttle follower fators for the IAC to get it to drop down to isle with less hunting. this has been a big nuisance when letting of the gas from 40 mph and coming up to stoplights. But snow is upon us and Shammoo is off to sleep now.

Projects for winter include final wiring of the upper and lower halves of the new center console. I'm also looking into a new Posi for the rear end, likely a Zexel-Torsen T2R unit. They are made a few miles from the house.

as background, when My son took Shammoo to the drags, he got it to 14.308 and 94 m, but couldn't hook up well off the line. No posi, just pegleg. The posi should fix that as we shoot for 100+ mph as the goal. Should be breaking into the under 14 second mark at that point. We have all winter to dream.

Speaking of dreams, "Shammoo" wishes you all wailing nightmares of being ripped apart by savage teeth, like in the Avatar shown for lakeffect.


Dave

And not a moment too soon from the shots from your neck of the woods they are showing on the news here. Looks like a pretty good dump you guys got up there. brrrrrrrrr


It's cold here today, high 50s this morning
Yesterday was 73 in the morning so a 15-20 degree drop is noticable.

Sprocket wrote:

It's cold here today, high 50s this morning

For fifty degrees, we wear shorts, and get tanned.

Well Sprocket and I freeze at those temps. We don't have all those sheep to keep us warm you know.

Always choose the sheep with the pretty bell around it's neck They are used to company at night.

You can always tell the locals in S FL when it is cold. They wear jackets, gloves, and toques. The Canadians wear shorts and T shirts.

What's a toque? >_>

lakeffect wrote:

Sprocket wrote:

It's cold here today, high 50s this morning

For fifty degrees, we wear shorts, and get tanned.

Twas the night before Wagonfest and all through the Microtel parking lot it was 48 friggin degrees on July 30 for goodness sakes!!!!

BTW I was wearing shorts and a t-shirt too

Update 03/16/11

Shammoo officially came out of hibernation today. I threw the battery charger on it yesterday.

I t only took two short tries and it fired right up. Got a few projects to do before it gets onto the road. Been looking into ANPAC Chrome insurance this year. Unsuccessful so far in getting the closest agent to return an email inquiry to me. Sent a request out to another, the next closest agent today.

First minor project is to download changes to the ECM program that I've fiddled with over winter.

Also gonna pull out the lower half of the console to work on adding the base and boot of the shifter. Also adding an access port for future data logging and maybe a fan to cool the ECM area. Might be overkill, but the ECM is now on the tranny tunnel against the firewall, and it will be under the center console. I want to make sure it doesn't get too warm by getting some air circulating through there.

You may recall, I added a thermostatically controlled,fan cooled, remote ignition module last year Now that I know that computer fans are twelve volts. it's easy to hook 'em up. Gonna add the fan and intake at the front, and vent it under the seats. I had an extra vent louver left over from a Fall house project, so I'll add that into the console.

Glad to hear you're back at it Dave!

Stingroo wrote:

What's a toque? >_>

Toque is short for hat.

Bewber wrote:

Glad to hear you're back at it Dave!

Stingroo wrote:

What's a toque? >_>

Toque is short for hat.

... and it usually says something like"Montreal Canadians" or "Labatt's Blue" on it.

lol I actually asked my girlfriend what it meant, since she's Canadian, and she just laughed at me.

Wait "Toque" is short for hat? Only from the great frozen north can a 5 letter word be short for a
3 letter word.Oh well thats what makes life interesting.Dave are you all healed up from the wreck?
Glad to hear Shammo is coming out of hibernation.I definitely like the console much better with
the matching tweed fabric instead of the off red color.I would love a pic of my wagon at the salt
flats.You need to take Shammo to the Maxton mile competition.It would fit right in with the other
unusual cars.I bet in the standing mile your wagon would impress a lot of people with the right
gearing.Looking forward to more Shammo updates and please post a video so we can hear that
engine running please.
Take Care
Jim Gordon

Yeah, but the french word for hat is chapeau

Flasheroo (Jim), Thanks for asking about an update on the injuries.

My right foot is healing well. I'm out of the cast, and gaining range of movement each day. It's still real stiff around the ankle, but, I'm in physical therapy for a few weeks , and hopefully will then return to the job around April 1. The most difficult part was just sitting on my butt with my foot up for two weeks. Luckily, I have a collection of books to read.

I'm starting to manage steps to a point I can get out to the garage. Today was exceptional around here, 59 Degrees.

I worked on both the 2009 HHR SS that we bought as a result of the accident, as well as got some of the garage reset to have room to work on Shammoo. Fiddled with the shifter tower to size and fit it onto the lower console. It will be fabric'd as well. I realized my error in using too many colors and textures. Now it's either black or gray.

What's the Maxton mile? Can't recall hearing about it!

Dave the "Maxton Mile"is held in NC right near the NC/SC border.Its on a military airfield thats still
in use for training.Looks like the timing group is going to lose the rights to hold it there.Its a very
basic safety rules timed measured mile from a dead stop.Anything and everything can run there and the assortment of vehicles is incredible.I met someone sunday at Harbor Freight who was admiring my wagon.He volunteers at Maxton and we talked about it for an hour.He has done many forms of racing all his life.His mother was 7 months pregnant with him when she won a go-cart race and he has the trophy to prove it.Anyway he says out of all the forms of racing that he has done Maxton is by far the most fun hands down.Very relaxed rules and incredible sppeeds.U tube
Maxton and watch the insanity.A suzuki hyabusa went 257 mph and a gt-40 went 260 mph from a dead stop in 1 mile.Your wagon with that engine and the right gear would be awesome.These wagons are surprisingly aero and have excellent coastdown numbers.All things equal a wagon will be faster at Maxton than a sedan.Glad you are feeling better Dave and have a great weekend.
Take Care
Jim Gordon

i dunno,. my wagons always go faster with deeper gears,. trying to push 2:56's takes a pile of torque,.3:73's wake 'em up,. 4:88's are positively fun,.

Nick

Part of the issue of gearing my be the distance involved, a full mile rather than quarter, but I'm just guessing. I have no clue what the ideal gearing would be for it. I doubt it's 4.11's as I'd anticipate, the car might run out of top end too soon.


But... no real clue, just a butt-o-meter guess..

A T56 car with 456 (or nicks 488s) would be serious in a standing mile.