Rear coil springs for towing 3500lbs. or more

I need to get some better springs for towing. My wagon hitch hits the ground now. Just thought some one may know.

Thanks
Randy

yakko wrote:

I need to get some better springs for towing. My wagon hitch hits the ground now. Just thought some one may know.

Thanks
Randy

Randy,
See what the others say who have owned their wagons way longe,r but I am going to install Air Lift 1000 part #60755 with the on board compressor #25870. With my weight distribution set up my I am nearly level but i want a bit more stability under a load.
I will be posting results under the thread "OCC Airstream Adventures" in OTHER.
What are you towing? Do you have a WD hitch?


Dick

Say... Dick, what is the hump on the roof?
Not AC, for certain... right?

jimbeau wrote:

Say... Dick, what is the hump on the roof?
Not AC, for certain... right?

roof rack,. all wagons have them,..

(taps fingers & looks at ceiling...)

jimbeau wrote:

Say... Dick, what is the hump on the roof?
Not AC, for certain... right?

The three bumps are OLD SCHOOL air conditioning. They crank straight up instead if hinge from one side. The rear ones are aluminum, 14" x 14", the one in front is a repro of the original fiberglass 14" x 28". It is translucent and lets light in the interior. There is a fan in the center vent.
Best to park in the shade however.

Dick

So to get that old school air conditioning working good do you have to be going 60 MPH?

I plan to tow my boat. I think all I need is a good set of Moog cc623 cargo springs.

I'm still doing research. The air bags are priced high. The boat and trailer weigh 3500lbs.

Thanks
Randy

Randy:

Cargo coils are great if your not looking at maintaining ride height. If you look at the spring rate, you will see the top portion its actually softer than the stock springs. The load capacity only kicks in the lower you go. For towing and ride height, your better off going to a heavier duty constant rate spring.

Our cars were used a lot in the limo and custom vehicle game and as such, most spring companies will have various listings of the same spring but with different load ratings. Your local parts store shold have the cross reference sheets. Takes some research but its worth it.

Air bags and air shocks are not going to compensate for a sagging spring. Unless you go full boat with a set of true air springs, the coils are what take the weight. Bags and shocks are only designed to help. Start with the springs and add after that. Found a set of springs spec'd for the commercial Buick Roadmaster sedan for my Caddy, and empty, can't put more than about 15 lbs. in the airshocks without lifting it too high. Previous to the new springs, I needed almost 120 lbs, of air to compensate for my travel trailer. Now I rarely put in more than 1/2 that and I had to lower the trunion tension on the hitch as well.

Even at 3,500 lbs, you should look into getting a load equaliizing hitch. A little pricey but you'll never go back to straight towing again. Much easier on the car and driver.

Bill

COL wrote:

jimbeau wrote:

Say... Dick, what is the hump on the roof?
Not AC, for certain... right?

The three bumps are OLD SCHOOL air conditioning. They crank straight up instead if hinge from one side. The rear ones are aluminum, 14" x 14", the one in front is a repro of the original fiberglass 14" x 28". It is translucent and lets light in the interior. There is a fan in the center vent.
Best to park in the shade however.

Dick

Air Conditioning ON now.

How fast do you have to pull the trailer to get the AC to cool?

Guess no one really knows about the springs. I'll find some good springs to keep my car level.
That is some rig you have there with the Air stream. How many pounds ???? I pulled my boat all over the place with my 9C1 sedan.
I just want to get my wagon to tow 5 miles to the river. The stock springs must be bad. The rear sits a little low. My hitch catches the ground once in awhile.

Thanks
Randy

I'm going with the cc623 springs. These look like what I need.

Thanks for the input. I read the other suspension repair 81X11 did, in this forum.

Thanks
Randy

I love my Air lifts. Soft stock ride quality ALL the time, but capacity to carry 1,000Lbs of weight without squatting. I'd do the bags b4 the springs. I can't see any reason to need more springs.

Deadmanonduty wrote:

I love my Air lifts. Soft stock ride quality ALL the time, but capacity to carry 1,000Lbs of weight without squatting. I'd do the bags b4 the springs. I can't see any reason to need more springs.

Ditto!!

ebay has the cc623s the cheapest, im ordering a set tomorrow, and the monroe 550012-13s

I love my severe service shocks.



Once you get them installed, let me know how they ride with the cc623s. I'll need to find some tow springs in the near future myself.

$38.44 was the cheapest on ebay , dont know how they do it, shipping has got to kill them , cause they have FREE SHIPPING

For the pair?

Link? I'll get those right now if that's the case.

just look up cc623, and go to lowest price

DROLDS2U wrote:

just look up cc623, and go to lowest price

scroll down to the seller that has zero feedback. It's them.

On a more serious note, I hope you tow often because the CC623 is a stiff spring. The initial rate is as stiff as the stock wagon rear spring. It's working range is a lot stiffer.

Deadmanonduty wrote:

I love my Air lifts. Soft stock ride quality ALL the time, but capacity to carry 1,000Lbs of weight without squatting. I'd do the bags b4 the springs. I can't see any reason to need more springs.

Really have to DISAGREE!!! The springs are what hold the car up. If your springs are sagging the only thing the bags will do is add 1,000 lbs to the now current load capacity of the springs.

Sizing springs is a no brainer. Just go for the highest spring rate for the given load height if you want to carry weight. Doesn't effect ride height, just how much the spring will carry. But what do I know? If you want to depend on a couple of balloons to hold up your car, go ahead. Me I will stick to using the right spring.

And as far as "cargo coils" they were designed to hold more weight, NOT RIDE HEIGHT. The upper part of the travel has a lower spring rate than even the stock springs. Nice and floaty unloaded.

Bill

That price is for 1 spring with free shipping!I agree with Jason,use one of the sellers with a better customer satisfaction
rating even if you have to pay a few dollars more!

jasonlachapelle wrote:

DROLDS2U wrote:

just look up cc623, and go to lowest price

scroll down to the seller that has zero feedback. It's them.

On a more serious note, I hope you tow often because the CC623 is a stiffspring. The initial rate is as stiff as the stock wagon rear spring. It's working range is a lot stiffer.

I quite like stiff. I think my wagon rides MUCH too softly in its current state (stock springs w/122k miles and Monroe Severe Service new with ~6k on them)

convert2diesel wrote:

And as far as "cargo coils" they were designed to hold more weight, NOT RIDE HEIGHT. The upper part of the travel has a lower spring rate than even the stock springs. Nice and floaty unloaded.

Stingroo wrote:

I quite like stiff. I think my wagon rides MUCH too softly in its current state (stock springs w/122k miles and Monroe Severe Service new with ~6k on them)

Yes, however the CC623 has an initial (uncompressed) rate of 206 in/lb. The stock wagon spring is 37 N/mm (211 in/lb). Squish the CC623 down 4" to its installed height, i.e. the height in an unloaded wagon, and the rate is substantially higher than 206 in/lb. Not a spring I would recommend using on a daily driver, unless you regularly tow or haul a gaggle of kids, in which case it's a great option.

Stingroo, If you like a stiff ride, then go nuts. However, the stock rear wagon spring is a fairly stout spring (when not saggy). Have you upg. the front springs at all ? The CC623 will be mismatched to a stock front wagon spring. I strongly suspect you would benefit from going to a much stiffer front spring before messing with the rear one, and ESPECIALLY if you're going to go with a rear like the cc623.

Yeah, I haven't looked into front springs yet. I wanted to do a 9c1 spring and cut half a coil off the bottom to drop the nose a bit, but now I'm not so sure how that would match up with the CC623 out back.

Suspension is like gypsy magic to me.

The stock caprice wagon spring has almost the same rate as the 9C1 spring. It's just that you can cut off more of the 9C1 spring to achieve the same ride height, and thus end up with a higher effective rate. Cutting only 1/2 coil off a 9C1 spring will not lower a stock wagon at all. That being said, you can cut your current spring to the desired height for free and see if you like it.

Hmm... that's good to know.

Maybe I'll try a coil off the front of the stockers then and see what happens.

You might want to heed Jason. Stiff springs sound cool in theory, but they can make you hate driving the car.

i emailed the seller to find out the situation if its 1 spring or 1 pair, its strang that they have 0 feedback and over 4000 auctions running

jimbeau wrote:

You might want to heed Jason. Stiff springs sound cool in theory, but they can make you hate driving the car.

Maybe. Everyone said the Severe Service shocks were too stiff too, but they're awesome.

It says so right there in the notes section of the ad "Package of 1 spring"!I always am suspicious
of prices this low!

all springs ive ever seen have been packaged in pairs

FWIW, I'm not advocating avoiding firm springs. I'm running 750# front springs and CC505 rears, matched with Bilstein sport shocks. I feel the car should have come that way, but I like the ride and they match my driving style. What I'm saying is match your suspension components IOT get the ride YOU want.

Stingroo, if you like the firm ride the Monroe SS gives, I think you would like the moog 7268 or 80098 in the front (750#). You certainly have enough shock to control the rebound on that spring. Going with a much firmer rear (like the CC623) without addressing the stock front springs will not give you the stiffer ride you want. It will be completely mismatched unless you are constantly towing/hauling. I am almost certain you would be better served addressing your fronts first (cut your stockers, then move on to the 7268 if you like it), THEN doing the rear if you want to do some towing or want anything firmer.

Thanks for solid advice! I'll give it a try after I finish this 140 amp alternator upgrade + audio project, then see where I am.

I'd also like the nose to sit a bit lower... I imagine that when towing, the nose will come up even more than it is now. Would look a bit like a monster truck...

what are the next best shocks to go with besides the severe dutys, or are they worth the -only 1 year warrenty

I looked under my car at the rear springs. They look to new to be stock. Darn! this is getting difficult. All I want is for the car to stop hitting the ground. I put cargo springs in the rear of my 9C1 and they worked out great! I hope the cc623s work.


Thanks
Randy

If you click on the "info" button on Rockauto's site, there is some useful info to help in determining what you may already have, and what you may want.
For example:
http://www.rockauto.com/info/Husky/DetailRockwell.html
Spring wire dimensions:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=440439
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1028943
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1028819
... etc.

The Raybestos brand even describes the particular dimensions for each spring, right in the listing.

Measure the dimensions of the spring wire on your ride and compare them with what's available there at the store.

Oh no!
More selections. When I get a dry day I'll have to do a little measuring.

Thanks
Randy

The 623's will be fine. I've had them in my car for well over a year now and they ride MUCH better than the stock piles of crap. They're not harsh at all even on delightful New England roads.

They arn't that expensive. I think I will give them a try any way.

Thanks
Randy

my cc623s have been shipped, ill post up weather i get 1 or 2 springs ... i really dont want a lopsided car...lol

Ok, been searching through dozens of spring topics, not finding what I'm after, so I decided to bring this on up.

I recently installed Moog CC623's and new ac-delco lifting air shocks. Problem is the springs sit pretty low even without any load, and the ride is a little harsh for my taste. Can't say how much the new shocks are doing for the hardness, though. Maybe for some reason the rear of my wagon is a bit too heavy for the springs, and most of the soft portion of the springs bottom out already without any load.

I'd like to have springs that sit a little taller and maybe a little bit softer when driving with light load.
Do anyone have any suggestions?

How about ac-delco variable rate springs for b-body wagon, are they identical to moog cc623?

I was browsing moog spring specs, and came to this (part#, end, end, inner dia, wire dia, height loaded, load, rate lbs/inch, free height):
MOOG-CC613 Pig Tail Pig Tail 5.530 .703 11.50 1080 236 16.13
Would that be overkill compared to the cc623?
MOOG-CC623 Pig Tail Pig Tail 5.530 .671 11.00 865 206 15.13

They are advertised to be 1/2" taller with two hundreds pounds more load, so considering the advertised rate, maybe they are more than 1.5" taller with similar loads? That could be a little too much. Very difficult to say how they would end up sitting, since they are variable rate...

Another spring that I noticed was this:
MOOG-CC621 Pig Tail Pig Tail 5.530 .672 12.75 640 175 16.70
That could be a little taller and softer with the car empty than the cc623, but who knows.. 640 lbs seem so far away.

Over the years,. and hundreds of spring topics and threads,.

I personally observe that its like soup,..
heights,. weights,. ride quality,.what suits one taste doesn't suit another,.

whats good for one person is not for the other,.so "do what you want,. you're gonna anyway".

The shocks are most likely the reason for harsh ride along with maybe too much air in the bags, and too much air in the rear tires,.

Nick

Yeah, seems that even light load, tire pressure and air pressure in the shocks all affects the ride. It's definitely much harder than stock, but I think I can live with it. After all it must be harder, otherwise it wouldn't do what it's supposed to when towing.

It could sit at least an inch higher though.

Why do you want the rear higher ?  The CC623 should already sit higher slightly higher than your stock springs.  I also think the CC623 is a bit too firm for a car that usually has no load.

Not that it should change much, but did you put the tight coils towards the top and ensure your isolators were in good condition ?