91 Caprice Wagon vs 94-95 Buick Roadmaster Wagon _help

Hi,

first post..


I'm on the market for my first wagon here in NY.

I have two potential candidates.

A 91 Caprice Wagon with a 5.0 V8
and
94 Buick RoadMaster with 5.7 V8 (TL1 I think, whatever that means)

Both in good shape with about 100k miles each, no rust.
Both about the same price.

Planing to do some light towing. But mostly will be a car for a family of 5 + K9.


I'm not Chevy or Buick fan, so I would like to know which one is "better", pros/cons.

Thanks in advance,
Juanjo

Dimensionally, they're the same car. The Buick will be much better equipped than the Chevy. The buick will have the LT1 350 motor which is good for, iirc, 260 hp. The '91 will only have a 305 with about 170hp. Since you're towing, I'd suggest the Buick over the Chevy just for the extra power the LT1 will have.

The LT1 owners will be along shortly I would imagine to give you more info.

Welcome to the forum!!!

Start here for everything you need to know about the differences...

https://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t627-model-year-differences

thanks for the replies..
another question is about gas millage between the two, any significant difference with the bigger engine of the buick.?

Not really. Both cars will get about 19-25 on the highway. My '93 with the TBI gets about 21.

trouble free and reliability, easy to work on.. are they about the same too?
Does the Buick have clutch fan or only electric fans?

for what I see the buick seems to have a more luxury. Wonder if that translate in more things to go wrong/malfunction!!?

the guy with the Roadmaster told me that the only problem is that the odometer is acting up, sometime work, sometimes not.. is that a typical issue with the buick?

sorry if I have to many questions, but in a few days I should be driven one of them.. fingers Xed.

I would recommend the newer one - for towing the '91 will be kinda gutless - I know, as mine is. Flat roads are fine, but any time you hit a hill you will struggle.

thanks, I think I agree with you..

Right now I have an 89 boxCrown Vic in GREAT condition, but HATE the open differential.. other-ways I'd keep it.

thanks again,

The Buick, hands down.

buick.

buy whatever makes you happy,. you're gonna anyway



People are biased they bond with their wagons and become loyal to what they have.

either way ,. buy a wagon.

Juanjo_NY wrote:

trouble free and reliability, easy to work on.. are they about the same too?
Does the Buick have clutch fan or only electric fans?

The Buick may have a clutch fan + electrical fan. If so, it's probably a tow-package car. That adds 2.93 limited slip, HD cooling, etc. Grab it.

Quote :

for what I see the buick seems to have a more luxury. Wonder if that translate in more things to go wrong/malfunction!!?

Yup. However, they are reasonably easy to work on. Unless you are trying to do something unusual, like change a fan belt or sparkplugs or something. Then the LT1 motor is a PITA.

Quote :

the guy with the Roadmaster told me that the only problem is that the odometer is acting up, sometime work, sometimes not.. is that a typical issue with the buick?

More commonly, the trip meter. The reset button sometimes sticks or the gear gets worn. The ODO itself is usually pretty reliable. If it's truly the ODO, I wonder if someone tampered with it?

Your biggest problem (with either car) will be finding a hitch to fit it. Many have found them listed on-line, only to have there money refunded a few weeks later because they are no longer made. Mind you, I'm talking about the Cl. III or IV receivers, Cl. II are still around.

The 5.0L (305) motor in the Chev is pretty gutless for towing, especially if the car does not have the tow-pack (3.23 limited slip in those years). It will pull something small ok -- and by small I mean a typical single-axle class II utility trailer, tent trailer or small runabout. The later L05 350 (standard in the 92-93 Buick and optional in the Caprice) was pretty competent for bigger game (I towed a 35' house trailer with mine) and the LT1 350 (standard in all B-bodies from 94 to 96) is similar in feel. It has more oompf at the crank, but the rear end is geared taller, so I've found it a bit of a wash when towing heavy trailers (eg: the auto transport I was hauling in hill country last weekend). Keeps the revs down though.

Personally, if all else is equal, go for the Buick, in my humble opinion. The single advantage of the Caprice is the lack of the Vista-roof, which must be protected if you are tossing a canoe or something on the roof. In earlier years it was also an effective greenhouse, but the later years had retractable sun-shades and that roof looks so good on the wagon...

Do you do your own work on your cars, or have someone else pay to do it?

Also, do you have money for repairs down the road?

buickwagon wrote:

Juanjo_NY wrote:

trouble free and reliability, easy to work on.. are they about the same too?
Does the Buick have clutch fan or only electric fans?

The Buick may have a clutch fan + electrical fan. If so, it's probably a tow-package car. That adds 3.23 limited slip, HD cooling, etc. Grab it.

Quote :

for what I see the buick seems to have a more luxury. Wonder if that translate in more things to go wrong/malfunction!!?

Yup. However, they are reasonably easy to work on. Unless you are trying to do something unusual, like change a fan belt or sparkplugs or something. Then the LT1 motor is a PITA.

Quote :

the guy with the Roadmaster told me that the only problem is that the odometer is acting up, sometime work, sometimes not.. is that a typical issue with the buick?

More commonly, the trip meter. The reset button sometimes sticks or the gear gets worn. The ODO itself is usually pretty reliable. If it's truly the ODO, I wonder if someone tampered with it?

Your biggest problem (with either car) will be finding a hitch to fit it. Many have found them listed on-line, only to have there money refunded a few weeks later because they are no longer made. Mind you, I'm talking about the Cl. III or IV receivers, Cl. II are still around.

The 5.0L (305) motor in the Chev is pretty gutless for towing, especially if the car does not have the tow-pack (2.93 limited slip in those years). It will pull something small ok -- and by small I mean a typical single-axle class II utility trailer, tent trailer or small runabout. The later L05 350 (standard in the 92-93 Buick and optional in the Caprice) was pretty competent for bigger game (I towed a 35' house trailer with mine) and the LT1 350 (standard in all B-bodies from 94 to 96) is similar in feel. It has more oompf at the crank, but the rear end is geared taller, so I've found it a bit of a wash when towing heavy trailers (eg: the auto transport I was hauling in hill country last weekend). Keeps the revs down though.

Personally, if all else is equal, go for the Buick, in my humble opinion. The single advantage of the Caprice is the lack of the Vista-roof, which must be protected if you are tossing a canoe or something on the roof. In earlier years it was also an effective greenhouse, but the later years had retractable sun-shades and that roof looks so good on the wagon...

3.23 gears in a tow pack for TBI car, 2.93 for LT1 car.

Otherwise, this post is spot on.

Grab the Buick, assuming the odometer functions (if not... ehhhhh), and good luck finding a class III hitch if you intend to tow something large. Rumor has it, Uhaul is producing them to order now, though. So this may be a problem of the past.

Regardless, be careful - these cars can be addicting. I never DREAMED I would do all the things I've done to this car while being here.

I landed in the right place!!!


thanks for all the good info..

the Caprice already have a 2" hitch and limited slip differential. also the guy including two studded tires for the snow.

The buick dosent have hitch, but find a class III for $165 including shipping.


the towing that I'm talking is a little trailer with a motorcycle and little stuff..

to answer sherlock9c1 question.
UNLESS is some engine work, I'm pretty handy and have tools to do basic stuff, changing a water pump, and stuff like that.

And hope there is no many repairs down the road.. the money we have is for dippers and formula..

Stingroo wrote:

3.23 gears in a tow pack for TBI car, 2.93 for LT1 car.

Well now that was rather a stupid mistake, wasn't it?  I'll go back and correct that.

Juanjo_NY wrote:

The buick dosent have hitch, but find a class III for $165 including shipping.

Not sure where you found that. Maybe it's NOS, maybe it's another case of a drop-ship vendor claiming to have something based on old, outdated information. This is the only receiver for the Buick Wagon listed on Curt's own website, and it's a class II (for over $300):




Ah, ok, did some more digging on the "hitchanything.com" website where you found that. The picture is not the same as the actual hitch attached to it, hence the escape clause "Representative image". Not particularly representative to show a class III picture when selling a class II hitch, IMHO. Kind of like selling a Lada with an image of a Caddy. I think they are treading dangerously close to "bait and switch". But I digress...

What they are selling is the 1-1/4" class II hitch. Look at the drawings in the actual installation instructions: https://www.curtmfg.com/masterlibrary/120413/installsheet/CM_120413_INS.PDF -- the same hitch I just linked to, above.

Good enough for hauling a motorcycle, but know what you are buying. It is a good price. (Suspiciously good, considering it's about 1/2 of the price on the Curt website).

BTW: while all 1-1/4: receivers are class II, not all 2" receivers are class III. Class III hitches are made of heavier materials and have more/stronger attachment to the frame. They might make use of a bumper mount bolt to hold them up during installation, but they don't rely on the bumper bolts to hold the weight of a trailer tongue.

One other thing: be careful when shopping on-line: the wagon hitch and the sedan hitches are different. Class III hitches for the sedans are actually still available.

How rusty are the undersides? Personally that would be the deciding factor for me.

Maint wise the tbi is cheaper to work on as parts are less, however, the LT1 was designed with 100K maint in mind (i got one with 135k and everything on the motor was original.

If the buick has a mech fan its a tow pack. If the 91 has 3.23 gears its a towpack
You can get the VINs and run them through compnine.com to get the options on the car.

As gutless as the 305 is itll have little trouble with a motorcycle trailer

Oh I've owned all three engine variants, I have a good idea.
As mentioned all being equal the 94 over the 91 but if rust and rear end gearing go with the bettter option

both cars are about 100miles opposite directions, I have to call the guy of the buick tomorrow, the caprice I was suppose to go yesterday, but after seeing the buick I got curios of which one was better, that's how I end-up here..

so not sure if I have a chance to just go to see them... the guy with the buick told me he have it for 6 years, and on the phone seems to know a lot about the car, the only thing is that ODO non working thing..  
He told me that comes with the tow package (no hitch) but some kind of electric fan for the transmission.  That should be a good thing.

thanks again for the good info.

Sprocket wrote:

You can get the VINs and run them through compnine.com to get the options on the car.

I put the VIN and it just tell me that it has  52 installed options, but don't know which they are.. what do I need to do to see the options.? never been in that site before.

that's the VIN of the Caprice Wagon 1G1BL83E4MW245353

Juanjo_NY wrote:

Sprocket wrote:

You can get the VINs and run them through compnine.com to get the options on the car.

I put the VIN and it just tell me that it has  52 installed options, but don't know which they are.. what do I need to do to see the options.? never been in that site before.

that's the VIN of the Caprice Wagon 1G1BL83E4MW245353

If you pay the $5 for 5 searches, you get this:


Report for..
1G1BL83E4MW245353

Vehicle:

CAPRICE STA WAG
Year:

1991
Build Date:

1991-04-25


Found 13,600 vehicles matching that year and model in our database.
RPO Description Matches
UM6 RADIO,AM/FM STEREO,CASSETTE,ETR,INCLUDES CLOCK STEREO CASSETTE(UM6) 11,611
UQ1 RADIO,PROVISIONS FOR STEREO STEREO RDO PR0VISIONS(UQ1) 13,579
UQ5 SPEAKER SYSTEM,4,DUAL FRONT DOOR MOUNTED,DUAL EXTENDED RANGE QUARTER MOUNTED 4 SPKR SYS(UQ5) 12,041
U39 CLUSTER,INSTRUMENT(OIL,COOLANT TEMPERATURE,VOLTMETER,TRIP ODOMETER) GA CSTR(U39) 13,466
U73 ANTENNA,FIXED FIXED ANT(U73) 5,629
VK3 LICENSE PLATE,FRONT MOUNTING PACKAGE FRT LIC PLT MTG PKG(VK3) 12,040
VN9 FLEET PROGRAM - GUARANTEED 100% REPURCHASE 522
VQ2 FLEET PROGRAM - DEALER ASSISTANCE, HOLDBACK NOT APPLICABLE 1,304
VX5 FLEET PROGRAM - CASH ALLOWANCE 1,733
V73 VEHICLE STATEMENT - US/CANADA US/CANADA VEHICLE STATEMENT(V73) 12,815
WRN PLANT CODE - WILLOW RUN, MI, USA 13,600
1AA SALES INCENTIVE - RETAIL AMENITIES -- DELETE 4,040
1SB PACKAGE-OPTION 02 (1SB) 3,506
20B TRIM COMBINATION,CLOTH,VERY DARK SAPPHIRE (20B) 2,686
20I INTERIOR TRIM,VERY DARK SAPPHIRE (20I) 5,244
209 SEAT BELT COLOR,VERY DARK SAPPHIRE (209) 5,244
40U EXTERIOR COLOR,PRIMARY,WHITE (40U) 3,281
41Q MOLDING COLOR,BLACK (41Q) 2,951
6TL COMPONENT-COMPUTER SELECTED SUSPENSION SUSP(6TL) 11,554
7TL COMPONET-COMPUTER SELECTED SUSPENSION SUSP(7TL) 11,554
8RN COMPONET-COMPUTER SELECTED SUSPENSION SUSP(8RN) 12,754
9RN COMPONET-COMPUTER SELECTED SUSPENSION SUSP(9RN) 12,754
AA7 WINDOW,ELECTRIC OPERATED,QUICK OPENING QUICK OPG ELEC WDO(AA7) 11,840
AJ3 RESTRAINT SYSTEM,FRONT SEAT INFLATABLE DRIVER SI INFL RST SYS(AJ3) 13,600
AM6 SEAT,FRONT SPLIT,3 PASSENGER WITH CENTER ARMREST FRT SPLIT ST(AM6) 11,474
AU3 LOCK,SIDE DOOR,ELECTRIC ELEC S/D LK(AU3) 12,659
BF9 COVERING,FLOOR MAT(DELETE) BF9) 344
C49 DEFOGGER,REAR WINDOW,ELECTRIC ELEC RR WDO DEFG(C49) 11,605
C60 AIR CONDITIONER,FRONT,MANUAL CONTROLS A/C MAN CONT(C60) 13,600
D35 MIRROR,O/S LH REM RH DIRECT CTL,PAINTED PAINTED O/S MIR(D35) 5,449
D7B GEAR-SPEEDOMETER DRIVEN (25513043) (D7B) 7,324
D8N SENSOR VEH SPD (10456088) (D8N) 7,384
E5Z ADAPTER - SPEEDO - DELETE 13,600
E9Z KEY - SPEEDO - DELETE 13,600
FLT SALES PROCESSING - OPTION 2,874
F40 SUSPENSION,HEAVY DUTY,FRONT AND REAR HVY DUTY SUSP(F40) 13,600
GU2 AXLE,REAR,2.73 RATIO 2.73R(GU2) 7,387
IQB TRIM,INTERIOR DESIGN (IQB) 4,406
JA2 BRAKE SYSTEM,HEAVY WEIGHT,DISC,DRUM HVY WT BRK SYS(JA2) 13,600
JM4 BRAKE SYSTEM,POWER FRONT DISC,REAR DRUM,ANTI-LOCK(CAST IRON) ANTILOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4) 13,600
K34 CRUISE CONTROL,AUTOMATIC,ELECTRONIC CRCONT(K34) 12,062
K60 GENERATOR,100 AMPERE 100 AMP(K60) 13,466
L03 ENGINE,5.0L(5.0H),V8(T.B.I.) 5.0H(L03) 13,600
MD8 TRANSMISSION,AUTOMATIC 4-SPEED(THM700R4/4L60) 4-SPD A/TRANS(MD8) 13,600
MX0 TRANSMISSION,AUTOMATIC,OVERDRIVE(MERCHANDISING OPTION)(MD8) A/TRANS PROVISIONS(MX0) 13,600
NA5 EMISSION SYSTEM,FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS FEDERAL EMIS(NA5) 13,146
N30 STEERING WHEEL(DELUXE) DELUXE STRG WHL(N30) 13,600
N33 STEERING COLUMN,TILT TYPE TILT STRG COL(N33) 12,108
N65 WHEEL AND TIRE,SPACE SAVER SPARE(STEEL) STOWAWAY SPARE(STEEL)(N65) 6,714
PH1 WHEEL,15X7(STEEL) STEEL WHL(PH1) 13,600
QEU TIRE ALL- P225/75R15/N WS2 R/PE ST TL ALS (9591637) TIRE(QEU) 12,754
R4Z TIRE BRAND ALL - GENERAL 12,727

And also this permanent link (which doesn't include the total number of vehicles that came with with each option):
http://www.compnine.com/mycar.php?id=7a1d9ec7fb040ed868080ad40a3979af

Of note is that the Caprice has a 2.73 rear axle, so no tow-pack on that car. With the smaller engine and taller gearing, I wouldn't want to do much heavy hauling with that car.

Interesting. Looks like it was purchased as a fleet car. I wonder what the retail amenities delete option included -- or rather, excluded in this case. Similarly, the adapter, speedo, delete and key, speedo, delete entries are intriguing.

thanks a lot..
I didn't see that option..
does this site also give VIN reports like Carfax?

No. Only Carfax or Autocheck will do that.

I'd rule the 305 car out for towing based on the gears and 305, and keep hunting.

Good luck.

Ok,
just find this one:


"95 one owner with O Rust and 56,000 org miles, fully loaded, 93 2 owner with 128,000 Miles fully loaded wth.factory tow package , cd power everything, many extra part$,interiorPristine .MUST SELL JEFF XXX-XXX-XXXX serious only/lowballers dont bother"



spoke to the guy on the phone, the 95 he wants 4K, way out of my budget right now.
but for the 93 he'll take $1200.
I know is not a TL1 engine, but I don't care much for that, it has factory tow package with factory hitch.

Is $1200 a reasonable price for the 93? I gonna have to put a new radiator, which If I can find the radiator I can do the job myself.

any input much appreciated !

If that '93 is clean and not a rust-bucket, then that's a very fair price.

That said, I've owned both a TBI 350 and an LT1 350, and the LT1 wins, hands down!!

thanks,
I'm waiting for more photos from the seller, according to him the interior is MINT, only rust spot is in the bottom where the spare tire is..

81X11 wrote:

If that '93 is clean and not a rust-bucket, then that's a very fair price.

That said, I've owned both a TBI 350 and an LT1 350, and the LT1 wins, hands down!!

In horsepower, sure. But as a daily driver the TBI 350 is more than capable.

Juanjo_NY wrote:

thanks,
I'm waiting for more photos from the seller, according to him the interior is MINT, only rust spot is in the bottom where the spare tire is..

They all rust there. Just depends how bad it is.

pictures below.

Your pictures didnt load man.

I can see them, but they are HUGE..
I'l have to resize them.

The reason you cannot see the pics is that they are hosted on a Google server and you need to be logged in to see them....

https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=3e10ad73af&view=att&th=140e5ebb06544f1a&attid=0.3&disp=inline&realattid=1445196457058761370-3&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P-y_TheysupFzQD74p0OjZu&sadet=1378254115506&sads=Qm2GYMhx_z9naXomPuc_25YSxOs

Juanjo, could you please host the pics on a site like www.photobucket.com

lets try again..

rust


engine


very clean interior







exterior looks average




considering that I have to put a new radiator, and the rust, is the car worth $1200?
the guy will delivered for gas/tolls money. (he's about 60miles away)

If the underside is rust free then $1200 is a great deal for that car. I have a 93 myself and she is a dream to drive. She might not have the HP as the LT1 but she has all the comfort and plenty of power.

Based on what I can see, I'd say $1200 is fair for that. That of course assumes that anything thus far unknown are minor deficiencies. Yes, the LT1 motor is sexy, but the 350TBI is actually more than adequate and easier to work on when maintenance is required. (And I'm another that has had both). Changing the rad on those is a no-brainer. The biggest issue is removing the transmission and oil cooler lines without damage. Soak them well with good penetrating oil (eg: PB Blaster, Deep Creep, etc. NOT WD40) for a few days to try and prevent twisting them off.

BTW: the factory did not offer a hitch of any sort. Any and all hitches are aftermarket. Since your current requirements are clearly class II, any hitch is acceptable and if it happens to be a class III, then that's just a bonus.

You know about the spare tire well rusting out. As already mentioned, that's pretty common. That implies other rust underneath -- look closely at the frame components, especially around the front body mounts, passenger footwells and the gas tank support. The "D" pillars are not clearly shown but for some strange reason are another area these cars like to rust and the driver's side D is missing some paint. The other area I would look closely at is above the windshield, particularly in the area of the "A" pillars. If it's rusted through there, a proper repair will usually require removing the windshield and there's a very good chance that means buying a new windshield. Unless you are prepared to do a body-off restoration, rusted out body mounts are a deal-killer. The gas tank straps themselves are now available, but if the body where they attach is rusted away that's a pretty advanced repair problem. The rest is all typical bodywork issues and not too bad for the average guy to tackle.

thanks,

just sent him a mail asking about any other rust spot in particular the frame..

I like the idea that he's willing to bring it to me for gas money.

Question, can I take the clutch fan out and put an e-fan on those?
I already have a 2 speed mustang fan and the fan kit.
If so, will that give the car a bit of more power or an extra gallon or two in the MPG?
Worth it!?

thanks again.

Anything can be modified if you have enough time and money. The LT1 was designed for electric fans originally. The mechanical fan with the HD cooling option was tacked on as a bit of an afterthought, so it's fairly easy to retrofit the LT1 to electric only. The TBI is the traditional GM fan belt/waterpump design, so while you could retrofit electric fans (at least in theory) you will have to maintain the pulley on the waterpump. That part would likely be a matter of 4 nuts and bolts, but maybe a disk to stiffen the pulley hub would be a good idea. You would also need some sort of bracket(s) to mount the fans. I don't know if anyone has come out with a kit for that so I would guess you'd have to fabricate your own bits and pieces to suit.

Is it really worth it? If you are racing then probably. For everyday driving, I don't think your gas mileage increase will be anywhere near a "gallon or two". A hp or two -- on the highway -- perhaps, but even then I think it's doubtful. Don't forget that an electric fan isn't magic -- it adds to the engine load through the generator. There's so many other factors eating fuel that the difference between a mechanical or an electrical fan seems pretty trivial by comparison.

But if you decide to try it, take careful measurements before and after and let us know. I could be wrong.

remember than the electric fan install with a kit only gos on when it reach the pre-set temperature.
In winter it may never turn on, same in the highway.
The high speed go connected to the AC.
I've done it before in a chevy S10 and it worked fine..

now the guy with the 93 roadmaster changed his mind and won't let it go for $1200.. BUMMER.
Back in the search.

Ok,
bought this Roadmaster:
http://www.compnine.com/mycar.php?id=b32aac65da90ed36a6a3a2f0fe10c4cd
is the one in those photos..
But far from what I was expecting..
The brake was on, and as soon as I left the guy the ABS light came on, brakes are horrible.
And the handling of the car is as horrible, my 89 Crown Vic handles and feel way better than this Roadmaster.
Boy I'm turn off by this Roadmaster wagon idea..
Anyhow, how can I trouble shot the brakes problem? can that be a line or it may need pads?


there are few other things that If I endup keeping this thing I'm going to need help with.
sorry for the rant and thanks for all the input given.

Well it IS a 20 YO car. The brake lines probably need some R&R as you are in NY so I'm sure they are rusty. Also, a front end rebuild is probably in order. I'd say 95% of our cars out there need one or just had one done in the last couple of years. parts wear with age.

Get those two things taken care of and you will LOVE your wagon. It was a great idea!

Brake light on suggests either parking brake is on or a line pressure problem -- usually a leak but possibly just trapped air. ABS light is most often a wheel sensor, but you need to scan the codes to verify that.

hey thanks,
the parking brake is off.
I just drove the car in our grassy backyard and the rear brakes are not working at all, only the front brakes lock up.
Also the rear suspension seems to be SHOT, it bottom up in a tinny little hill.
The seller include 4 new Monreo SS Severe Service gas Shocks. are those any good?

on the plus side the engine sounds very good and the interior is really clean.

The Monroe SS are my FIRST choice in shocks. Just mKe sure you have the right ones.... I think the numbers are 550012 and 550013 front and rear respectively.

thanks, yes, those are the numbers I have, they are brand new in the box.
Because some little imperfections in the exterior I and the brake light being on, I endup getting the car for $950. So I'll put some money in the brakes, install the shocks meself and give it a chance.


thanks again.

PS.

I have a set of wire spoked hubcaps, ONE is missing the BUICK symbol, but they are all 4 in real good shape, with locks and key.
Are those worth anything? I was thinking in selling them, since the car have some nice mag wheels.

here is my woody.

Looks good and for $950 bucks,it looks REAL good.Take your time and fix it right,it will give you many years of service as well as looking pretty good too.

thanks,

I just got back from a junkyard that was about to destroy a 95 Roadmaster and bought a bunch of little things I need for this one plus two snow tires for $60.
The guy is going to save the dual exhaust for me, so I'll get that too!!
But what a shame to see one of those go to a grinder!

PS.
if anyone need something, engine parts, glass or interior (red fabric) I can give you his number. It is a one man show and the guy is very nice. So maybe there is something else that can be save from that Roadmaster.

Golden rule number 1 when encountering a roady getting ready to be crushed.Alwats gently remove the white plastic lenses that are attached to the tops of the grabs handles at the rearend of the wagon.These lenses are VERY hard to find and are no longer made.Also the panels on the inside of all 4 doors but especially the drivers door are very prone to cracking so always check the panels on every door for cracks and if you find none GRAB THAT PANEL.Memorize this Juan and always check for these parts anytime you see one of our wagons.

If you can get it, get the crossmember to run the dual exhaust. It'll make your life easier.