Wagon difference, did you know this? Updated (Found out not the case)

The last couple of days, I have been doing a few odds and ends to the Caprice wagon.  I've had an intermittent check engine light for about 3 years.  I replaced the EGR valve and MAP sensor--------no more check engine light.  The starter has been dragging also for about 3 years, so I decided I would replace that.  This afternoon, I pulled the original starter out.  I have owned RMW's since 1997 and I have never had a starter go.  The Caprice only has 108K and the starter was on it's way out.  I figured I would get one of those Autozone, Corvette lifetime guarantee starters.

I dug out a RMW starter that I had in my stash.  I couldn't believe what I saw.  The Caprice starter was puny compared to the RMW starter.  I measured the diameter of both starters.  The RMW was almost 4" in diameter, while the Caprice was 2 1/2" in diameter.  I've always known there were differences between the two wagons, but I didn't know this.

Think I'll head downstairs and put the extra RMW starter in the Caprice and save myself $120.


Tom

Yeah, but was that starter factory? I've had enough B-bodies to learn that people don't always replace the original starter with another OEM one.

Both original, by my records and the original owner, have no mention of a replacement and the patina matches.

Hmm, 4" diameter sounds like an older TBI starter. If it is indeed original, maybe it was a left over? Was that car an early production?

95BRMW wrote:

Hmm, 4" diameter sounds like an older TBI starter.  If it is indeed original, maybe it was a left over?  Was that car an early production?

Well maybe that's it Dave. So you're saying the Caprice with the 2 1/2" diameter starter is correct and the 4" one is not from an LT1 wagon? That could be correct as it came from a parts wagon that I had. I just figured the 2 1/2 was a cheezy starter that they put in the Chevy's and they put in a 4" one in the Roadmaster LT1's.

Tom

My guess is that the later ones could be a gear reduction starter. They run a smaller motor, but used gear reduction to get the same torque out of it. The benefits are mostly weight reduction, and space savings. I imagine both will do the same job, just one's bigger than the other, the power needed to turn over an LT1 and a 5.7 TBI are around the same, maybe a little more on the LT1 because of compression differences.

The Corvette starters are usually gear reduction starters, and are noticeably smaller.

i have used the bigger earlier starter a couple of times,. it usually needs the corresponding bolts,.it's also significantly cheaper from the rebuilders,.

95BRMW wrote:

Hmm, 4" diameter sounds like an older TBI starter.  If it is indeed original, maybe it was a left over?  Was that car an early production?

Bingo, Dave had it right. I looked under my RMW and verified. The "puny", as I called it, 2 1/2" diameter starter on the Caprice is the correct one. The 4" diameter starter, that I had on my shelf, from a RMW parts car is not the correct one. I assumed the bigger the better..........wrong.

Probably going to do the Autozone Corvette starter, I think it's $119 & core, I have a 20% off code plus free shipping; not to mention the lifetime guarantee. Autozone will be getting the TBI core back, thank you. It will end up costing around $95, it's a no brainer. There is also a starter / alternator shop nearby, but I'm sure it would cost me $75 to get out the door there. Eventually, I'll probably have it rebuilt and keep it as a spare.

Tom

silverfox103 wrote:

I dug out a RMW starter that I had in my stash.  I couldn't believe what I saw.  The Caprice starter was puny compared to the RMW starter.  I measured the diameter of both starters.  The RMW was almost 4" in diameter, while the Caprice was 2 1/2" in diameter.  I've always known there were differences between the two wagons, but I didn't know this.

Think I'll head downstairs and put the extra RMW starter in the Caprice and save myself $120.
Tom

As you are seeing, the larger starter is not an upgrade. Since there is a shortage of knowledge about the intricacies of GM starters here, here’s some good information:

Information sourced from:
Chevrolet S-10 Truck V-8 Conversion Manual by Mike Knell
(14th Edition - 2001 - JTR Publishing Livermore CA - Pages 3-6 & 3-7)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

- J

On top of all that there are about 10 different part numbers for very similar starters. I have a whole thread on here about it including the part numbers. The DENSO I bought off of ebay for 85 bucks has been working great for the last 10-12K

I put the vette one on my 9C1 and love it, well worth the extra cost over the stock LT1 starter. You just gotta loosen the cable mounts and get a little more slack for the cables to reach. Also, when you take the "core" back make sure you find the clerk that knows nothing about cars . You shouldn't have a problem though.

As long as the motor starts,. it,s all good,.

the vett starter sounds nicer also when it turns the mtr over

mtrhead79 wrote:

the vett starter sounds nicer also when it turns the mtr over

  well right there,.!! thats the way to go!!

I put a little speaker and MP3 player in and wired it in to the key cylinder so when you turn the key, it plays the sound of a vette starter.

I had it rebuilt at the rebuilders. It was quick and not expensive. Had it done in an hour; he replaced the drive, brushes, solenoid and greased. He said it was very dry where it should have had grease. $68. Starts like new.

Tom

silverfox103 wrote:

I had it rebuilt at the rebuilders.  It was quick and not expensive.  Had it done in an hour; he replaced the drive, brushes, solenoid and greased.  He said it was very dry where it should have had grease.  $68.  Starts like new.

Tom

does it sound good when its cranking?

Sounds a lot better than when it was dragging. Doesn't have the vette sound, but doesn't look like a vette either.

I found a local rebuilder in Syracuse and took ALL my starters and alternators to him. Only had one problem (bad solenoid, out of the box), and he fixed it no problem.

tom my original starter had the same problem they said it was dry. must have something to do with the gear reduction. i use to rebuild gm starters  about 25 years ago, before the gear reduction ones were around. am i the only one that notices how a car sounds at start up? i use to have a chrysler with a 360 in it and hated the starter sound on that. it use to sound like crap and i put together a heavy duty cop starter and that sounded alot better.  you all know i have some issues:roll: 

John,

Haven't seen any progress reports for your wagon lately. How's it coming?

Tom

ok but slow i am waiting on some primer to dry as i type. i will post a couple pics ltr tonight or tomorrow