Insurance issue

OK, my once perfect OCC was hit the other day by an F-150 with massive mudder tires and a crash-bar. I had my car parked at the local tire dealer negotiating with the sales guy on some new tires
While the employee was walking to my car with my keys, this F-150 with a 20/yo kid driver comes flying in while on his cell phone (of course) and makes a really horrible attempt to park next to my wagon. CRASHed right into the drivers rear, got my tail light, bumper, and tailgate......just missed the rear quarter (phew!)

Now for my problem: State Farm is the insurance for the F-150, they claim that the kid did not have permission from his daddy to drive the truck.....thus they do not have to pay me anything and tell me to sue the kid!! I think they are playing me because why would this kid be driving the truck to the shop for work to be done on the truck unless - a) the dad sent him there, or b) it is really his truck and he is uninsurable due to how BAD he drives so his dad snuck his truck on his policy!! He is such a bad driver that he didn't see my huge white wagon!!??

I am wondering how to proceed with this? I would think that if the son had not permission to drive the truck then he must have stolen it, so why hasn't the kid been arrested?? I plan to ask State Farm this question tomorrow.

Anyone have any insight or experience with something similiar? Advice??

Did State Farm tell you that, they are not responsible? That does not sound right. If they did tell you that, have them put it in writing. I would call the Insurance Commissioner of your state or the Attorney Generals Office (consumer protection) and tell them your story.

I had a similar situation about 15 years ago; also at a tire company. I took my 70 year old mothers car down for a set of tires. Somehow it got a dent in the quarter, I don't remember the exact circumstances, but they told me to get an estimate. I did and they paid immediately.

Like your car, it was in their possession and on their property. They have responsibility.

Don't let off until you get the $$$.

Tom C.

In New York, part of the mandatory insurance is for "uninsured motorists."
Does your state have a similar mandatory portion of insurance in effect?
Does your state demand that all motorist be insured?

If so why wasn't insured? If so , was the driver ticketed for being uninsured.

Did the police become involved? Was he ticketed for anything? Does your state have a no cell phone use while driving law? if not, get them involved. Was the vehicle reported stolen? If not then there was tacit approval by the owner for the uninsured son to drive the vehicle.

Get a lawyer immediately.

I'll underscore lakeffect's comment: Did Dad have the kid charged with theft? If not, then the kid had permission. QED.

On a side note, up here (Ontario) "uninsured motorist" coverage is also part of the standard policy. IE: if you are hit by an uninsured motorist (or a motorist who flees and cannot be identified) then your own insurance company covers the cost of repairs. I realize every state is different, but is that available down there? It might be worth considering in the future.

EDIT: Oh, and if Dad gave permission but doesn't have the kid insured, then (up here) I believe Dad is personally responsible for the damages. If the truck was stolen, then I believe the insurance company is responsible. But that may vary in your state, you'd need a lawyer who understands the law in your area.

One last thought: how many vehicles in the household vs how many licensed drivers? Could be evidence of the suspected insurance fraud. If Dad participated knowingly in fraud, it could bolster the case that he is responsible.

Okay I went to the internet wayback machine and found this information about NC insurance coverage laws (The following is information that I personally would consider and should not be construed as legal advice that you should follow):
Is the state a No Fault or Tort state? What does either mean to the policy owner?

North Carolina follows a Tort System. What this means is, if you are involved in an accident, someone must be found to be the cause or fault of the accident. The person deemed at fault is responsible for all damages. Damages are usually handled through the at-fault person's insurance company. Because North Carolina is a Tort state, most insurance companies recommend that driver’s consider carrying higher coverages than the state minimums.

I was hoping that your state had a no-fault clause then you could get the money from your insurance company and let the two fight it out. However it looks like your state follows the ideals of holding the person at fault fully responsible for all damages; hence you have to sue them if they have no insurance.

That page also lists this information for how they can get away with not paying for damages for people they don't have to cover in the same household:
What are the rules pertaining to the exclusion from coverage of a driver living in household?

In North Carolina, auto insurance companies can write policies that exclude household members. These exclusions are listed in the policy’s exclusions section, which also includes a list of all possible circumstances that would free the insurance company from the responsibility of paying a claim. It is important to examine your auto insurance policy carefully before signing on the dotted line.

I also found this little tid bit of information regarding excluding someone on your insurance policy; you can still be held “vicariously liable” for his/her actions:
Most importantly, if a driver is “excluded” on a policy, this does not absolve him/her of any responsibility under Tort Law. Unless you are in a no-fault state, liability still applies, as it would in the absence of any insurance policy. Moreover, you as the vehicle owner can be held “vicariously liable” for his/her actions. This would probably have to be something you go to court over but if an insurance company thinks they might get sued they might be willing to settle to save that expense. I'm highly doubtful on this though because they have the funds and unfortunately most people don't so they call your bluff, especially if the damages they would have to cover would be less than your legal expenses. They would be more willing to bet you will not pursue the legal avenue if it will cost you more than what you can get compensated for.

Chances are if the son was specifically excluded from the father policy even though they live in the same household then he might have some legal/coverage issues that would make him not insurable, or cost him severely high premiums.

I'm with everyone else on the idea of bringing up the fact to the insurance company that if there was no police report filled stating that the truck was stolen therefore the son had permission to drive said truck. Also unless the policy specifically lists the person at fault as an "excluded person" from that policy that they (State Farm) are liable for covering his accident. If the person at fault is an "excluded person" of that policy I would also remind them that even though the person that owns the truck had his/her son excluded from their insurance policy that they (the vehicle owner) still can be held vicariously liable; and you could drag both the vehicle owner and his insurance company to court. Lawyers are expensive so I would investigate all possible routes before having to incur any additional expenses.

Some good news is your state requires that you carry Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist Coverage. Worst case scenario your insurance company is who you will have to battle to get your custom cruiser fixed up puurrrrrrtty again.

Personally I would first talk with my insurance company regarding how an Uninsured/Underinsured claim would affect my premiums, and if that would be the best option to pursue. I would also see about trying to get my insurance company to fight theirs for getting this incident covered. If they are going to cover the damages they're gonna want some compensation back, whether it be from you, (higher premiums), or from the party at fault. (civil suit against that person or his insurance company; not to mention suing the vehicle owner, and their insurance company)

I just realized that the son might have his own insurance policy especially if he doesn't live at home? If this is the case then he provided the incorrect insurance information for the accident. Was there a police report filed for the accident? You should get a copy of that along with all documents sent to you from your and their insurance companies. Keep a record and best of luck with your upcoming battle to get your baby fixed up again.

scoffman wrote:

I would also see about trying to get my insurance company to fight theirs for getting this incident covered. If they are going to cover the damages they're gonna want some compensation back, whether it be from you, (higher premiums), or from the party at fault. (civil suit against that person or his insurance company; not to mention suing the vehicle owner, and their insurance company)

The latter is exactly how it works up here -- your own insurance company pays to fix your car under the uninsured motorist coverage part of the policy, then subrogates (assumes your right to sue the other party). You don't have to deal with the lawyers, the insurance company handles all that.

With luck, little Johnny will lose his truck over this...

Daddy sounds like a POS and the son is no better!What happened to being responsible for your actions.Lastly,the tire company has to carry insurance for accidents that occur on their premises!

Here in Florida, uninsured motorist covers the medical bills of passengers in the vehicle whether the other car has insurance or not. It does not cover anything that happens to the car itself. The basic PIP coverage only covers the driver's medical, and in the case of the insured being the at fault driver, it covers the repair of the other car up to the limit of the policy.

I say go for their throats.

Mayneman

Here are the parts you need, as TX Mike: https://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t6997-how-fixable-are-our-wagons

Tom C.

Wow, thanks guys for all the help, advice and research! It was definitely a help.

My insurance company's (Geico) lawyers got involved and I have an appointment for an estimate next week with State Farm. Seems that once the lawyers started talking, everyone decided to do the right thing! Amazing!

Anyway, my next concern is the insurance company calling my 20/yo car a total loss and paying me out for less than I paid for the car($3500) not to mention what I have with time & $$ in repairs, new tires, wheels etc.....etc.

Here is what it needs:

Rear bumper cover.......rear taillight.........tailgate.......+ labor....paint (most of which I will be doing).
I wonder if an estimate for this repair could potentially total it? I obviously own the car/title outright, so in NC that means they cut a check to me and I can pocket it if I wish, and make the repairs in my garage.

I've done my research and have printed out online appraisals....anywhere between $1700 all the way up to $7800 depending where you look and condition of the car(mine's SUPER clean in and out). I plan to be prepared with my own due diligence just in case the insurance adjuster tries playing me.

I would doubt they would total it, but you never know. They may say parts are not available. Unless you have something lined up, I would track down the White Custom Cruiser in the picture from TX Mike posting (see my above link). Get a price to have the bumper cover, tailgate and anything else you need shipped to you. That way you have ammunition when the insurance company talks to you.

Tom C.

Glad to hear they stepped up! Not to lessen the the good news, but those salvage yard pics are from last winter. BUT there are a LOT of cars down there.

Here's some good links:

Pick-N-Pull San Antonio (pics from above)
http://picknpullsa.com/

Roosevelt U-Pull-It (San Antonio)
http://sanantonio.citysearch.com/profile/693664690/san_antonio_tx/roosevelt_u_pull_it.html

Wrench-A-Part (Austin-Belton) Two GOOD yards, inventory listed on webpage
http://www.wrenchapart.com/

There are a TON of yards in Dallas and Houston as well. And a good Pick-N-Pull in Waco. They main issue with all this is these are mostly self-service yards. The GOOD part is the parts here tend to be rust-free, and the prices tend to be dirt cheap. I'm in Austin, so I'm close to Belton-Waco-San Antonio.

Now there is a GREAT yard in Dallas called Awesome Auto Salvage that once a month has a $50 all-you-can-carry weekend day. That would be the day to go with a friend, yank a tailgate and stack everything on it and carry it all out for $50. They always have wagons.
http://autosalvagerecyclers.com/

Oh they don't like me at Awesome anymore though. I went to get some parts for my Cadillac Catera a few years back, and leaned into the trunk of one, no noticing that someone had removed the gas struts on the trunk. It fell on my head, gashing me in my hair, and it was raining that day. I walked to the office, parts pulled and tools in hand, with water and blood running down my face. The office guy took one look at me and said GO GO GO! So I got all my parts for free that day.

Good luck fixing your wagon!

-Mike

Thanks for all the great intel!

94X2>(thx man!) sent me some intel on a local U-pick yard that has a white OCC woody(?) Seen one of these in blue/woody for sale a few months back. Anyway, I picked up a bumper skin for $40, needs paint as suspected. Unfortunately the tailgate is much-much worse than mine. While I was there I picked both taillights (23/ea) even though I have one being shipped......maybe someone will need them someday.

I think my tailgate is fixable, I pried it out some and it ain't too bad.....a good body man could finish it off good I think.

Here is the damage to my car.



This is how she looks with the wheels & tires I put on right after the kid messed my car up.

There is a white OCC (91 IIRC) here in one of the yards with 135k on it. The tailgate and bumper cover are still on it.

Cadillac Kevin......where are you?

mayneman wrote:

Thanks for all the great intel!

[...]

I think my tailgate is fixable, I pried it out some and it ain't too bad.....a good body man could finish it off good I think.

I was somehow envisioning the damage as being much worse. You and your wagon are both very fortunate and I agree...a good autobody man could probably fix that tailgate up "good as new" with some work. Does it still operate properly?

Those wheels look great on your wagon, by the way.

Good luck with the insurance business. Hopefully it will all work out and everything will be made right once again.

cadillac kevin wrote:

There is a white OCC (91 IIRC) here in one of the yards with 135k on it. The tailgate and bumper cover are still on it.

Where is "here"?

Unfortunately, your signature gives no information on what city/state you are in. Might want to correct that.
Are you on our members map yet?

uxwbill wrote:

mayneman wrote:

Thanks for all the great intel!

[...]

I think my tailgate is fixable, I pried it out some and it ain't too bad.....a good body man could finish it off good I think.

I was somehow envisioning the damage as being much worse. You and your wagon are both very fortunate and I agree...a good autobody man could probably fix that tailgate up "good as new" with some work. Does it still operate properly?

Those wheels look great on your wagon, by the way.

Good luck with the insurance business. Hopefully it will all work out and everything will be made right once again.

Yeah, I suppose I was making a bigger deal out of it than reality, it's just that the car was so clean before with not even a door ding. The tailgate is OK now, it was rubbing on the bumper when opened before I pried it clear.....

Thanks for the feedback on the wheels, makes me feel a little better about the other wounds on my car!

go to the best and most expensive body shop to get an estimate, so you fight if you have to for the most money

The insurance adjuster came by to work an estimate for the damage to my car today. He cut me a check on the spot for $1600, I'm pretty sure that this will more than cover the repair.

While he was pricing parts he was stumped by the fact that he could not source any parts for the car, nor was he able to price any. He then stated that he would probably have to total the car due to the fact that the parts are unavailable. I then spoke up and informed him that I had already picked the parts I need from salvage yards in the area. Had I not had the parts the car most likely would have been TOTALED just because he could not find a taillight lens or bumper cover for it!

At the end of his visit I asked him out of curiosity what my car was worth in their system in it's condition (127K, and very clean). When he told me that the ACV for the car was $5900, part of me wished that I did not speak out about the parts I had, and just pocketed the $5900 since I only paid $3500 for the car three months ago!! It would have been a shame for my car to become a parts car for such minor damage, so it all worked out for the best.

At any rate, I'm happy that the insurance company acted quickly and that cars like ours, if kept in great condition, can be worth this much in an insurance settlement.

Glad it worked out in the end. I can't believe they valued it so high! If they had totaled it they might have let you buy it back from them cheap with a salvage title.

mayneman wrote:

The insurance adjuster came by to work an estimate for the damage to my car today. He cut me a check on the spot for $1600, I'm pretty sure that this will more than cover the repair.

While he was pricing parts he was stumped by the fact that he could not source any parts for the car, nor was he able to price any. He then stated that he would probably have to total the car due to the fact that the parts are unavailable. I then spoke up and informed him that I had already picked the parts I need from salvage yards in the area. Had I not had the parts the car most likely would have been TOTALED just because he could not find a taillight lens or bumper cover for it!

At the end of his visit I asked him out of curiosity what my car was worth in their system in it's condition (127K, and very clean). When he told me that the ACV for the car was $5900, part of me wished that I did not speak out about the parts I had, and just pocketed the $5900 since I only paid $3500 for the car three months ago!! It would have been a shame for my car to become a parts car for such minor damage, so it all worked out for the best.

At any rate, I'm happy that the insurance company acted quickly and that cars like ours, if kept in great condition, can be worth this much in an insurance settlement.

I had a the same experience when a dimwit 17 year old in a 30k F250 with a lift kit backed into my driver door. The insurance value on these cars in good condition is very high, thankfully. Their first remark was it would be totaled and I hunkered down for a fight (it was 77k miles at that time) in they end, they replaced the door and repaired the woodgrain for a total of about 4800. I never paid a penny. My only regret, not calling the police on the kid. He turned out to be a total asshat and burned through two more of daddy's new trucks (dads a dealer) in the next year.

Glad it worked out for you.